Daniel Worth

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since Jun 07, 2011
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Northglenn, Colorado
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Recent posts by Daniel Worth

paul wheaton wrote:Like the sepper program?  https://permies.com/sepper



YES, YES,YES!!! but also, no :p.

What I see is that all the thought has been put in and all the work done and then not listing these on AirBNB and actually running them as a commercial business. I imagine, having experienced it, it's almost completely by chance that someone would find that page on the forum. The original though of getting 'Normies" in the pipeline to provide ongoing sustainable income I don't think is represented there. I know that the Duke has way more info than me, random internet guy. However, permaculture is a bit like a religion in that it needs new members to stay alive. It exists only in the people that practice it. Unlike religion it doesn't really require anything from anyone except to observe and learn. I see from the outside you are providing everything that is needed but not in the way people that aren't already on board would find it. At least with the SEPPERS program. To make an analogy, it's like planting something you think will attract all the bugs to eat so they don't eat your tomatoes. If the bugs still eat the tomatoes you can't blame the bugs you can only watch and learn and try something new. I believe very much the market for you is much larger and the impact much more. Just don't forget it's not the bugs fault for not seeing the brilliance in your design. Keep being awesome.
I want to respond out of an abundance of love for what Paul is doing and has done. Also,approach it from a sustainable business perspective. I look very much forward to Paul telling me my idea sucks. and it might.

I'd imagine a current issue is that Permaculture, especially as practiced at the Lab, attracts people at an arc of their life where they are looking to build a career and not pull in money from people who are established and have more capital. "Normies" that might pay for experiences rather than education. The people that could pay and fund the people Paul is training to do this at their already established homes. I'd describe it as building a pipeline from Normie to Full died in the wool Permie Warriors.

My idea I'd call PermiBNB. You mention the rural nature the property as a hindrance to people coming out, but there is already a market for that in short term rentals like AirBnB. So to make it economical that it would be building out a small section of property with cabin like structures for vacationing people to experience different levels of ecological buildings. Maybe they'd be interested in the events and activities at the Lab and maybe not, perhaps they'd just want a quiet place to enjoy time away.

To fund, and prevent the death by obligation, I'd say there would be structures demonstrating different levels on the Wheaton Eco Scale making initial investment possible at a lower level of eco scale. The funding would be a kick starter and the incentive for the kick starter would be actual credits to stay in the finished structure. So, like a gym membership the obligation is satisfied simply by the thing existing and basically being pre booked. Like gym memberships I imagine many people would never cash in their credit to stay or would hold onto them for coming years leaving plenty of room for other renters to stay there. The overhead of an AirBNB is lower than other activities, there is already business models for this to work and would allow people to experience Pauls genius without him actually having to add excessively to the workload. Each kickstarter could be filmed as stretch goal but no video provided to backers. A video about the build could then be produced as an additional kick starter that would be simply to fund the editing.  A class could be held about the build as an addition income stream but since it's funded outside of the kickstarter the lack of participation isn't going to kill the idea.

In the end you could end up with some good ongoing passive income for the Lab, showcase the ideas, upgrade and evolve and give people the opportunity to experience the ideas in a lower commitment level. A weekend of staying in a place with a RMH for example just to try it out.

Slots could be blocked to provide space for people to stay there at larger events. Small family friendly events could be planned, like pick and cook your own dinner night.

I'm not someone who would come out to be a boot, or even take a class, I have a great job, a side business, a family. But I'd love to support the work and experience the ideas you are coming up with. I'm sure there is a larger market in the ecological AirBnB than in the actual interest in spending money on videos, classes or other direct lines of revenue. I'm sure even someone without any idea what it is you are doing would enjoy a stay and likely get excited about it building out a pipeline to future classes, videos, books ect.

In a bit more crass way of putting it, Get rich people who like to pretend they are Paul's to pay for the actual Paul by trying out the paul way of doing it's finished products.
To spitball some other ideas for management......
I'd bet in a silvopasture setup annual tree trimmings could first be passed through goats to strip leaves, then to the beavers to strip the bark for food and lower the load on the pond trees and lastly the wood can be collected for hugelkultur or use in a rocket mass heater.
9 years ago
Watched this PBS documentary called "Leave It to Beavers" with my kids and was super inspired to integrate beavers into a pond system. They show some simple management techniques that could be used to manage beavers in a permaculture system.

Leave it to Beavers

I would love to hear if anyone else has though about or done this.
9 years ago

Sam White wrote:Hey Daniel,

Nice article. I'd like to do something here similar in Wales so I'll be looking forward to more! One note on the coppicing; the older a tree gets the less likely it is to respond well to being coppiced so this might be something to bear in mind. However, I am writing from a UK perspective so trees native to the USA or other parts of the world may respond differently.

Sam



It's a error on my part to make it seem that it would be coppiced after full growth. The thought was that if you didn't want to simply harvest the whole tree you'd coppice it early and allow the coppice to grow to full height. This is less desirable for large timber as the trunks don't grow as strait grained. If the wood is to be turned into smaller caving work or worked on a lathe this might even be desirable though. With the time scale involved it's hard to tell the market at the time of harvest so coppicing might not be the best tool for this particular job as more traditional timber would likely fetch a high value and sell quicker.
9 years ago
I just wrote a new article about using large over-story trees as a retirement program by selling high quality timber.

500 Year Farm Blog: Not All Permaculture is Food

Let me know what you think.
9 years ago
Thank you SO much for posting this. I feel this is a master class in these issues and some of the most valuable information I've gleaned from your podcasts. That isn't an insult to the other podcasts, they are also fantastic, but a compliment for talking about all the dirty things other people sweep away and never warn about. There is literally no where else to get this candid of a discussion about these issues. Compared to working with me, Paul is a saint that should be applauded for his willingness to work with people under these circumstances. I know it's hard to share the failures but this is info is going to help so many people looking to get into large scale permaculture. Again, thank you so much for sharing.

Dan
That pretty much nails where I'm at. I've got a well formed plan and part of that is making my land purchase without taking on debt. So it creates a waiting game for me, but I think in the long run it will pay off.

Dan
9 years ago
How cool to hear from you!

I currently live in the metro area north of Denver but I plan on buying land further east.

I'd love to visit/help in any way I can.

Sounds like you all ready have a great start.

Dan
9 years ago
I'd lake to make a shameless plug for my project. I'm still in the planning stages but getting closer every day. I built a new website for it and would appreciate some feedback, there is also a blog with quite a bit to read if you are interested. I make hand carved spoons and I'm will be getting some up for sale on the site soon. Thanks for your time.

http://500yearfarm.com
Dan
9 years ago