Nutrition re:carbs

I'll try to make this flow smoothly as its own topic.

No one has ever done a study where they restricted carbs to zero because ethics don't allow you to risk patient lives like that. but the natural experiments where people had carbs restricted to zero always go very poorly, with extreme failure to thrive and poor brain function. Additionally the low carb diets tend to have a super strict phase in the beginning where people eat steak and iceberg lettuce for two weeks and then broaden their diet. The diets bill it as training your body to burn fat not carbs, but I've seen to evidence to support it. In my estimation the switch over is there because if it weren't you would suffer extreme medical problems.

As the diets broaden they include beans (which have plenty of carbs) and sprouts (which still have quite a few) and fruits and veggies.

There are biochemical steps that you need to use carbs to do, and nerve cells need carbs to function (and struggle to survive in ketalysis), but the fad diets don't deal with this because they let people get enough carbs to survive.

Carbs are also needed for muscle tone. Not enough carbs can cause muscle lose.

Emerson White wrote:
I'll try to make this flow smoothly as its own topic.

Yes, I was thinking this needed its own topic! From the food for a year thread, right?

Emerson White wrote:
No one has ever done a study where they restricted carbs to zero because ethics don't allow you to risk patient lives like that. <snip>

As the diets broaden they include beans (which have plenty of carbs) and sprouts (which still have quite a few) and fruits and veggies.

I think there is a semantics issue going on here!

So you're talking about "zero carbs" as in not even vegetable carbs! I think that's the crux of the semantics right there. Most people I know, including myself, are not nearly so specific (or logical) in what they mean by a low/no carb diet. When I talk about a low/no carb diet, what I usually mean is a low/no starchy carb diet. All the non-starchy veggies I want are IN: onions, greens, brassicas, even many of the root veggies like carrots, beets and turnips (though excluding potatoes, of course).

I realize there have been some diets out there promoting no carbs at all, though my impression was that folks were implying low/no starchy carbs in the other thread.

I know some other very left-brained folks where this kind of generalizing and non-literal communication drives them crazy. Yes, veggies are carbs, but I would guess that most folks don't think of them that way.

The coherent argument I have seen for most low-carb diets is not to 'train the body to burn fats,' but to overcome insulin insensitivity. There is a good deal of evidence that this can happen. As the insulin resistance goes away, larger amounts of carbs are usually introduced. I am not convinced that a low carb diet is necessary or desirable in the long term - osteoporosis, potassium deficiency, kidney issues and a number of other potential problems concern me. But it does depend on how one defines the term 'low carb'. 

Insulin has a number of functions in the body related to inflammation and fat synthesis - when insulin and triglyceride levels are high, fat cells grab what they can and pack it away. Low carb shuts that off. A high fat diet also tends to be more effective in shutting off the appetite, making weight loss easier (this is probably a big part in the restoration of insulin sensitivity of low carb diets, fasting or other calorie restriction would do the same, but is more difficult from a behavioral standpoint).

I have/had always been talking about carbs as carbs no matter what their source.

Lowering insulin resistance is a more plausible story, but I suspect that a reasonable diet will lead to a positive outcome if the caloric intake is lowered appropriately to match the output. Thin active people who eat mountains of spaghetti tend to have much better insulin metabolisms than large sedentary people on high fat high protein diets that contain too many calories.

This is taken from Mark's Daily Apple: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-primal-carbohydrate-continuum/

The following descriptions illustrate how carbohydrates impact the human body and the degree to which we need them, or not, in our diet. The ranges represent daily averages and are subject to variables like age, current height and weight and particularly training volume. For example, a heavy, active person can be successful at a higher number than a light, moderately active person. In particular, hard training endurance athletes will experience a greater need for carbs and can adjust their personal curve accordingly. This is a topic I address further in the book (e.g. – experimenting with adding 100g of carbs per hour of training per day), on MarksDailyApple.com and in a future “primal” book dedicated to endurance athletes. Here then is my “Primal Blueprint Carbohydrate Curve.”

300 or more grams/day - Danger Zone!

Easy to reach with the “normal” American diet (cereals, pasta, rice, bread, waffles, pancakes, muffins, soft drinks, packaged snacks, sweets, desserts). High risk of excess fat storage, inflammation, increased disease markers including Metabolic Syndrome or diabetes. Sharp reduction of grains and other processed carbs is critical unless you are on the “chronic cardio” treadmill (which has its own major drawbacks).

150-300 grams/day – Steady, Insidious Weight Gain

Continued higher insulin-stimulating effect prevents efficient fat burning and contributes to widespread chronic disease conditions. This range – irresponsibly recommended by the USDA and other diet authorities – can lead to the statistical US average gain of 1.5 pounds of fat per year for forty years.

100-150 grams/day – Primal Blueprint Maintenance Range

This range based on body weight and activity level. When combined with Primal exercises, allows for genetically optimal fat burning and muscle development. Range derived from Grok’s (ancestors’) example of enjoying abundant vegetables and fruits and avoiding grains and sugars.

50-100 grams/day – Primal Sweet Spot for Effortless Weight Loss

Minimizes insulin production and ramps up fat metabolism. By meeting average daily protein requirements (.7 – 1 gram per pound of lean bodyweight formula), eating nutritious vegetables and fruits (easy to stay in 50-100 gram range, even with generous servings), and staying satisfied with delicious high fat foods (meat, fish, eggs, nuts, seeds), you can lose one to two pounds of body fat per week and then keep it off forever by eating in the maintenance range.

0-50 grams/day – Ketosis and Accelerated Fat Burning

Acceptable for a day or two of Intermittent Fasting towards aggressive weight loss efforts, provided adequate protein, fat and supplements are consumed otherwise. May be ideal for many diabetics. Not necessarily recommended as a long-term practice for otherwise healthy people due to resultant deprivation of high nutrient value vegetables and fruits.

This is also a really great link to check out, it answers all your questions regarding carbohydrates and all sorts of health issues one might be concerned about when embarking on a low-carb lifestyle. I think this way of eating coupled with permaculture would work amazingly. He recommends eating fresh, organic meats and lots of organic vegetables. It's not so much about limiting carbs as not eating wheat/grain.
There are tons of explanations on this site that are scientifically backed up so to me, it seems a viable way to eat/live.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/

When you talk about eating steak and iceberg lettuce for a couple of weeks before adding in other veggies, I think you're talking mostly about the Atkins diet, which never appealed to me because of the restrictions.

Yeah, the "low carb" diets I talk about, like the paleo diets, include lots of vegetables of all kinds (avoiding potatoes and dry beans) but exclude grains and refined sugars. 

Paleo diet I'm somewhat following (not religious about it):  http://www.nerdheaven.dk/~jevk/paleo_intro.php#menus

The diet described on marksdailyapple sounds a lot like the Bernstein Diabetes diet, which is what I have been using since last March. I tried to stay around 60g carbs/day. He actually wants people to be at 30g carbs/day, but for me this is just not possible. Still, I lost over 25 lbs and my blood sugar got down to the high normal range, around 110-115, but then when early winter came, I was cold all the time, like I mentioned in the other thread. I ate some carbs, and by that, I mean SOME CARBS--raisins, crackers, bread. And I got warm. I usually keep my house at 64F tops in winter with no problem, but this year I have had to keep it at almost 70F and I still be cold without the extra carbs. But the extra carbs also caused my blood sugar to go up and my weight to creep back on. Now I am back counting carbs again and losing the weight again and slowly my blood sugar is dropping again. I don't eat steak and lettuce. Eggs, nuts, seeds, dairy, tofu, tempe, pickled herring, yellowfin tuna, and very occasionally some wild salmon are my protein sources. Outside of the warmth thing, I didn't notice any effects from doing low carb. If anything, I had more energy, not less. I didn't experience muzzy thinking or get a headache, like I did when I tried Atkins once. That was awful.

I have read about how if carbs are couched in high fiber, they will not have such a bad effect on blood sugar, but I have not found this to be the case. I tried, for instance, chana dal, which is very low on the glycemic index, but it was almost like eating bread in terms of its effect on my blood sugar. 

I am hoping that during the course of the summer I will lose enough weight to get my blood sugar down into the real normal range, and then, hopefully, when winter comes, I will not experience the same cold feelings. I do believe that it has something to do with blood sugar not being well regulated. The one thing I don't get is why I could eat grains for decades and not see any negative effrects on my health at all and then five years ago, bam.

Paul and Jocelyn's podcast reviewing movies Supersize Me and Fathead: http://www.richsoil.com/permaculture/?s=supersize

I am reading "Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes and recommend it for anyone battling this issue.  He takes you through the actual studies and their real outcomes, NOT what people just say about health, but what the studies are showing (and many times then ignored).  It's an eye opening read.


Tami

Many people have cured diabetes and insulin resistance using a macrobiotic diet in which the major source of calories is brown rice.  That cuts through some of no-carb extremism right there.  Kushi Institute is currently offering a series of programs for reversing diabetes.

The only thing I have been eating lately is. Usually all my meals consist of a diverse salad topped with some protein source and a bit of cheese

Salad: this includes raw vegetables, broccoli, lettuce, cabbage, zucchini, tomato, beets, radish what ever I have

Eggs, cheese, yogurt, I easily go through a dozen eggs a week

Chicken

pork

Beef

nuts

fruit

there is still some sugar in my diet, but not a lot. Mostly from Gatorade

No starches in the form of flour

I have lost about 3 pounds in 2 weeks. I feel great without the bread and stuff.

I did best on that diet also, oracle.  Unfortunately I went off it when my garden stopped producing lettuce. 

KullConquered wrote:


Take out the guess work, find out what biologically works for you instead of playing with different ideas and screwing up your body. The markers are there in our blood and phenotypes.

How do you do that?  What blood test does one ask for?

Blood type, lewis antigen (or secreter test), then for A or AB there are A1, A2, A1B1, A2B2. RH factor (rhesus). Phenotype is a bit more complicated but to help different finger ratios (D2:D4) from hand to hand, leg bone length lower vs upper, finger prints, etc...

There are labs that you can spend excessive amounts of money to try an accomplish what is as easily done with a measuring tape for the most part.

Confusion comes when you apply the information, as there are no official studies to show results of food choices. But for instance if you search pubmed for intestinal alkaline phosphate (IAP) and ABO, you will find that anyone with the A antigen (A or AB) has less IAP. Well IAP is used to process saturated fats. If you can not process saturated fat at the intestines, and you do not want it in your cardiovascular system, the simple answer is to not eat red meat right? It is all pretty simple, but again there no "proof" that you will benefit from the obvious.

Funny enough this all leads into my thoughts on permaculture gardens, and wanting people to grow useful vegetables as opposed to the ones that have little value in them.

I deleted a bunch of stuff here.

Please keep in mind that all posts need to make sure that they do not suggest that anybody on permies is anything less than perfect.

Further, make sure that you state your position as "your position" and not "the truth".

If a large and wonderful post has one spec outside of my comfort zone, I'll delete the whole post.

Quick tip:  search for the word "you".  Usually, if your post has the word "you" in it, it is outside of my comfort zone.

I like you.

paul wheaton wrote:
I deleted a bunch of stuff here.

Please keep in mind that all posts need to make sure that they do not suggest that anybody on permies is anything less than perfect.

Further, make sure that you state your position as "your position" and not "the truth".

If a large and wonderful post has one spec outside of my comfort zone, I'll delete the whole post.

Quick tip:  search for the word "you".  Usually, if your post has the word "you" in it, it is outside of my comfort zone.

Thanks for the reminder, its such a habit to use "you"

Emerson White wrote:
No one has ever done a study where they restricted carbs to zero because ethics don't allow you to risk patient lives like that. but the natural experiments where people had carbs restricted to zero always go very poorly, with extreme failure to thrive and poor brain function.

I am resurrecting this thread to correct this statement.

A study was done to prove that natural experiments with zero carbs do not always go poorly.

In 1928, motivated in large part by this evidence—the Inuit experience, in particular—leading nutritionists and anthropologists collaborated and put two veteran Arctic explorers on an all-meat diet for an entire year, measuring and testing everything they could think of at the time. “Both men were in good physical condition at the end of the observation,” wrote Eugene Du Bois, the most-respected nutrition and metabolism authority of the era, in one of the nine articles published on the study. “There were no subjective or objective evidence of any loss of physical or mental vigor.” Among the minor health issues discussed by Du Bois and his colleagues were that one of the explorers began the experiment with mild gingivitis (inflammation of the gums), but even this “cleared up entirely, after the meat diet was taken.”

Taubes, Gary (2010-12-28). Why We Get Fat: And What to Do About It (pp. 222-223). Random House, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

Cj Verde wrote:

Emerson White wrote:
No one has ever done a study where they restricted carbs to zero because ethics don't allow you to risk patient lives like that. but the natural experiments where people had carbs restricted to zero always go very poorly, with extreme failure to thrive and poor brain function.

I am resurrecting this thread to correct this statement.

A study was done to prove that natural experiments with zero carbs do not always go poorly.

In 1928, motivated in large part by this evidence—the Inuit experience, in particular—leading nutritionists and anthropologists collaborated and put two veteran Arctic explorers on an all-meat diet for an entire year, measuring and testing everything they could think of at the time. “Both men were in good physical condition at the end of the observation,” wrote Eugene Du Bois, the most-respected nutrition and metabolism authority of the era, in one of the nine articles published on the study. “There were no subjective or objective evidence of any loss of physical or mental vigor.” Among the minor health issues discussed by Du Bois and his colleagues were that one of the explorers began the experiment with mild gingivitis (inflammation of the gums), but even this “cleared up entirely, after the meat diet was taken.”

Taubes, Gary (2010-12-28). Why We Get Fat: And What to Do About It (pp. 222-223). Random House, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

I mentioned elsewhere on Permies recently that ketogenic (low/no-carb) diets are also used to treat severe forms of epilepsy which don't respond to pharmaceuticals, especially in children. It works by forcing the brain to use ketone bodies (a fat-based energy source) instead of glucose - the change in energy source helps prevent/limit seizures. One of the key advantages of a ketogenic diet over pharmaceuticals is that it does not cause the dulling of the mind that is common with strong epilepsy drugs, which is why it is most commonly used with children: epilepsy drugs limit a child's ability to learn and play. The diet has been used to treat epilepsy for thousands of years.

I am a paleo convert. Been paleoish since nov 1 2011. Lost 65 pounds, and feel amazing. I have had major joint injuries. Torn both rotator cuffs, one shoulder scoped need to have the other one scoped but don't want to be in a sling for 6 weeks again. Fractured L3 and L4 vertebra. While I'm not 100% I feel much better than I did before. I sleep better. Cut all artificial sweeteners out, I feel much more mental clarity. I am 35, 6'0'' and 252. That may seam like a lot of pounds however 232 was my weight after 14 weeks of Army basic training and A.I.T. I don't think I could get lower than 230 without going to a concentration camp. I think that some people (such as my self) are glutton sensitive. I was addicted to sugar.
I am not saying that paleo is the way. 15 years ago I eat whatever I wanted, I just always tried to hit 15 miles of running every week. A spine injury put the end to all that.

years ago I was on a reduced fat diet, and developed type 2 diabetes..

so then I was told to restrict carbs and went on atkins..and developed high cholesterol..

OK so then after a very long telephone conversation with Paul, and reading several books and viewing a movie he suggested I realized..OK..don't go completely NO carb but limit the carbs esp to whole grains, whole fruits and vegetables.

OK now I'm reading the healthy4life information, and I have been switching over to the way he suggests eating in the past week, and in one week I have lost 8 pounds, and feel better, enjoy the food more and have more energy, less tired..etc.

I haven't got a source for raw milk or raw milk products so I'm not being religious about my eating, but I have been putting the saturated fats in and leaving the crap oils out, good, much better, tastier for sure.

I have found a couple of sources for commercially made uncured bacon with no nitrates..and hope to someday be able to get pastured meat and raw dairy. Have found someone who I can get goats milk from next spring but her animals have been dried up for the year.

Still shopping around. Found closer to pastured eggs (large pen, eat bugs, but not pastured, have a rooster)..and they are only 3 miles away...but hope to get my own chickens next year...couldnt' do it this year.

with the horrible frosts and droughts here this year I have been forced to buy more food from the stores than usual, bummer..but hopefully next year it will be back to a surplus from my own gardens.

My blood sugar still isn't where I'd like it to be but with the weight loss and the blood pressure going down a lot I know I'm heading in the right direction. I also am back up to walking at least 2 to 3 miles every day, and doing weightlifting and an hour of strength /ton training..which I know I needed to get back into doing after my surgery.

www.westonaprice.org is the website I hope i got that typed right..

I have a particular rare condition of diabetes. Not the typical type I or II.

Since age of 10, my blood glucose was higher than average, but not much. I could controlled it by diet, basicallly by removing white sugar and sugary cakes and sweets.

Second thing is that I always struggled with low weight, since I was a child until now.

Curiously when I was a child I was eating mostly meat and less carbs. With time, I ate more carbs during my teens and then at age 20, I became vegetarian and more macrobiotic (whole grains instead of refined grains). That was a pure bodily desire to stop eating meat.

At this point, my high blood sugar disappeared. I only lost litlle weight. It was perfect, and it was like that for 4 years.

However at 25 I tried to become a bit vegan for a year (removing diary) and eating more raw, and that was a disaster, I lost much weight and start developing several health problems some months later, so I re-started again with milk and ocasionally eggs and my weight recovered to same point and health became great again.

So now I am mostly vegetarian but eat ocasionally fish (to ensure a complete diet and also because I like it). My weight has always been low. My diet is mostly grains, pulses, vegs, one portion of milk per day, and ocasionally nuts, fish and eggs. Basically potatoes don't make me satisfied, neither fruits, but grains and pulses do, as well as nuts, fish and eggs. What I always avoid is sweets (because that provokes hunger some hours down the road - unstable sugar). Whole bread is also great for me. I have no food allergies.

Doctors have told me once that I produce normal levels of insulin. But I might have an unknown genetic change that it is hard for the body to store excess calories as fat. Might be cell receptors, some mutation in my insulin, or some other factor that is different than average. Somehow it doesn't matter how much I can eat, my weight will always be stable and I never develop fat tissue. This has its good things and not so good things (for example the fact I live now in Iceland, where I need some fat to protect from the cold). I have also great mental activity, and a moderately fast metabolism. I also never ate a very calory rich diet, because I always avoid sweets and oily food (I only eat fat in fish, olive oil, nuts, milk and sunflower seeds, I dont enjoy butter or frying oils).

Even though I am healthy and cured my diabetes (by going mostly vegetarian and whole grains) I still look for perfection.
Especially to increase a bit my weight.
Would you recommend some adjustement to my diet based in my different metabolism?

First, a word about language...
for me, carb stands for carbo-hydrates, and this is absolutely equal to starch!
I am french, and we might have used words differently...

hydrate de carbone is what we call "slow sugar", that is starch.
Then sweet things have "fast sugar", saccharose, glucose...

So, when I said in another post that I am on a low carb diet, I mean I eat no grains and no potatoes.
I do eat fruits.

I have been for years on a gluten free diet, and I was much better, and then, gut symptoms started again!
So, its been some weeks now that I have suppressed carbs.
i have suppressed most of the gut bubbles...
and I have decided to deworm (it was a success 3 year ago now) again.
then I will see the result.
I also increase raw food, with green juices. So, less fiber. My fiber from veggies is in the bone/meat soup!

Paulo, I tell you what I can...

I was told as a child about pancreas deficiency that could lead to diabetes.
It was said by an iridologist (looking into iris of the eye).
Then I took the habit of limiting sugar, even in yogurt.

When I was 18, I had read a lot about diets, and was proud to eat low fat... and a blood test said I lacked cholesterol!
Well, I have changed my mind totally concerning fats.
I am thin but not to much, and I still look like a teen.

I went to university, so was eating a lot of carbs, pasta, potatoes...
it was often once a day, as one meal cost less and we could eat a lot.
Sometimes I had an urge for food with a pain in the stomach zone, and I could calm this with a heavy pudding cake from the cafeteria!
then I was found with sugar in urine test... and I got an analysis (drinking glucose syrup and measure of sugar levels going down in blood).
-> my sugar level was going down too slowly.
Then I went again sugar free and forgot about it.

ok, sometimes a chocolate bar etc...
and I notices it was linked to a special type of red pimple, that stay hard for a long time and are not easy to press out.
I tried my best, and satisfied myself with fructose products.
Now I know this was the cause of many tooth decay... and would like the liars who said it was good on the box to pay for the expenses!
only natural fructose in the fruit is good.

Then I had a boyfriend with a lot of these pimples, and he was cured quickly by stopping sugar.

I still do speak of sugar, and not of carbs!

It seemed to me that I could not stand vegetable fibers well.
The proof: my transit was better with more white rice and less veggies...
Now I know this is not a proof at all,
because of nutrient combinations in the body.
(compare with pesticides, the damage also depend on the mix)

Now I tell you the interesting fact:
I can eat sweet things only when I stop carbs!
and no pimples...

If I eat carbs, then veggies give me diarrhea.
If I stop carbs, I can eat a lot more veggies.
I am almost sure that carb and animal proteins are also a bad combination.
I think fruits are better off meals, eaten with coconut oil or almond because all fruits and veggies need a fat intake to be assimilated (especially the vit that dissolve in fat, ADE)

You said that when you were eating meat, you did not eat a lot of carb, might be pure instinct...
I can suggest a try, as I understand that it might be the mix with carb that makes your body refuse to take more animal proteins.
And you know they are good for you as the vegan diet was not successful.

Whenever you eat some animal protein, egg, cheese and especially fish, try to have only vegetables at the same meal. You should eat some raw, like a big salad, and some cooked but not all cooked, for enzymes. Then eat them also with some fat like olive oil (both in salad and added to the cooked veggies). Exclude potato too from this meal, and bread of course.
This might makes you want to eat more fish, and that would be great for you while you live in Iceland!

Eat fruits with nuts as a snack, far from any meal. I am almost sure fruits are ok with cheese.
You mentionned almonds and sunflower, do you know chia? Rich in omega 3, just in case you do not eat so much fatty fish.

And I would increase the fat intake little by little. Also try the coconut oil, especially if you want to eat wok style sometimes! Also like in India, if you want to cook like in ayurveda, cereals and pulses with curry or so. They used coconut oil because it is better to put the spices in oil to enhance their power, as they are not water soluble if you add them later. (You do not say how you cook.)
Coconut is supposed to be good against diabetes, and be able to nourish brain cells very well.
Be careful with sunflower oil, soja etc. they are rich in omega 6, too rich.
look for omega 3 sources: chia, flax, hemp, walnut...

If fiber is a need that you fill with wholegrain, then think about eating sauerkraut and other lacto-fermented veggies. Very good for transit.
An interesting fact is to try inuline rich veggies like sunchokeand notice if there is a gas problem. If yes, then it is necessary to look further, as it indicates that guts do not function all that well.

So, my suggestion is to try to increase fat, as a best way to put on weight, and choosing the source of your fats.
Then organize the mix of your usual ingredients.

Then, have you thought about parasites?
They are able to manipulate our tastes, so that we feed them what THEY want!
And they love carbs...
in that case, you feed them and they leave you in peace, and they put on weight, but not you!
Some people have more tendency, and not all type of worms are detectable, nor killed by deworming medicines.

Again this is MY experience, and I go into details about myself so anyone can see what is similar or not.
when I did it (with plants), I was no more able to eat sugar, and even honey was not appealing!
another fact: I was eating 30-50% less...
i mean that i could not finish my usual plate, as I was full quicker!

Excelent post, Xisca.

I really like your honest storytelling, very pleasant reading.

Well, looking at your experiences, I can say we share some points and have other body-wise differences.

I really agree with with not eating carbs with fish but rather only veggies. That seems also intuitive for me, actually I mostly do it too, because it seems to be the correct thing to do. The fish is actually very good here, and although I can't "grow" it, its a good food to get it here (its local). Great is to cook a fish soup only with veggies, spices and fish.

Also, I dont mix fruits with anything else. Again, our bodies seem to behave similar with this.

Same thing for the artificial fructose (nasty stuff), I do not use neither sugar, nor fructose. Sometimes I do eat cookies but its more because my friends offer them to me. I never buy sugar containing products, and I also dont buy any sugar. However, because sometimes I eat cookies, I still have tooth decay. I must make extra effort to stop this, but social life makes it difficult sometimes.

Nuts: 2012 has been the year I am eating more nuts! As a snack. Its good, I particularly like pecan nuts and brazil nuts.

Seeds: I drink water with chia almost day I remember to do it. I also toss some chia (and other seeds) to my breakfast cereals (mostly organic millet and buckwheat; no additives). Still a grain, yes, but replacing this by mere seeds and nuts would make my eating far too expensive and also time-consuming. Perhaps you can recommend me an alternative.

I can go by a banana too, but somehow I feel hungry later on the morning. Sometimes I do eat a banana 1 hour before the breakfast, but this requires I wake up extra early. Perhaps a fish soup would be a nice alternative, but it would be again more expensive and time consuming to cook it every morning. But its the best alternative I can think of.

Suggesting the coconut oil is a wonderful suggestion. As I am a soap maker; I use a lot of coconut oil in my work, and therefore I have plenty of it! I use it sometimes and I must use it more.

Also sesame oil, its one oil I am really getting into. But I never used sunflower oil in cooking, only olive oil. And I am getting addictive to olives, which are also rich in fat. And avocados, that I must also use more than I use.

Last question: how do you do the de-worming? I have tried fasting before but I have such a fast metabolism (I am vata type, ayurvedically speakinh) that I really would enjoy other methods of de-worming that do not involve fasting. Or is it the only solution?

PS: yes, I have a gas problem sometimes. I know this.

Xisca Nicolas wrote:Paulo, I tell you what I can...

I was told as a child about pancreas deficiency that could lead to diabetes.
It was said by an iridologist (looking into iris of the eye).
Then I took the habit of limiting sugar, even in yogurt.

When I was 18, I had read a lot about diets, and was proud to eat low fat... and a blood test said I lacked cholesterol!
Well, I have changed my mind totally concerning fats.
I am thin but not to much, and I still look like a teen.

I went to university, so was eating a lot of carbs, pasta, potatoes...
it was often once a day, as one meal cost less and we could eat a lot.
Sometimes I had an urge for food with a pain in the stomach zone, and I could calm this with a heavy pudding cake from the cafeteria!
then I was found with sugar in urine test... and I got an analysis (drinking glucose syrup and measure of sugar levels going down in blood).
-> my sugar level was going down too slowly.
Then I went again sugar free and forgot about it.

ok, sometimes a chocolate bar etc...
and I notices it was linked to a special type of red pimple, that stay hard for a long time and are not easy to press out.
I tried my best, and satisfied myself with fructose products.
Now I know this was the cause of many tooth decay... and would like the liars who said it was good on the box to pay for the expenses!
only natural fructose in the fruit is good.

Then I had a boyfriend with a lot of these pimples, and he was cured quickly by stopping sugar.

I still do speak of sugar, and not of carbs!

It seemed to me that I could not stand vegetable fibers well.
The proof: my transit was better with more white rice and less veggies...
Now I know this is not a proof at all,
because of nutrient combinations in the body.
(compare with pesticides, the damage also depend on the mix)

Now I tell you the interesting fact:
I can eat sweet things only when I stop carbs!
and no pimples...

If I eat carbs, then veggies give me diarrhea.
If I stop carbs, I can eat a lot more veggies.
I am almost sure that carb and animal proteins are also a bad combination.
I think fruits are better off meals, eaten with coconut oil or almond because all fruits and veggies need a fat intake to be assimilated (especially the vit that dissolve in fat, ADE)

You said that when you were eating meat, you did not eat a lot of carb, might be pure instinct...
I can suggest a try, as I understand that it might be the mix with carb that makes your body refuse to take more animal proteins.
And you know they are good for you as the vegan diet was not successful.

Whenever you eat some animal protein, egg, cheese and especially fish, try to have only vegetables at the same meal. You should eat some raw, like a big salad, and some cooked but not all cooked, for enzymes. Then eat them also with some fat like olive oil (both in salad and added to the cooked veggies). Exclude potato too from this meal, and bread of course.
This might makes you want to eat more fish, and that would be great for you while you live in Iceland!

Eat fruits with nuts as a snack, far from any meal. I am almost sure fruits are ok with cheese.
You mentionned almonds and sunflower, do you know chia? Rich in omega 3, just in case you do not eat so much fatty fish.

And I would increase the fat intake little by little. Also try the coconut oil, especially if you want to eat wok style sometimes! Also like in India, if you want to cook like in ayurveda, cereals and pulses with curry or so. They used coconut oil because it is better to put the spices in oil to enhance their power, as they are not water soluble if you add them later. (You do not say how you cook.)
Coconut is supposed to be good against diabetes, and be able to nourish brain cells very well.
Be careful with sunflower oil, soja etc. they are rich in omega 6, too rich.
look for omega 3 sources: chia, flax, hemp, walnut...

If fiber is a need that you fill with wholegrain, then think about eating sauerkraut and other lacto-fermented veggies. Very good for transit.
An interesting fact is to try inuline rich veggies like sunchokeand notice if there is a gas problem. If yes, then it is necessary to look further, as it indicates that guts do not function all that well.

So, my suggestion is to try to increase fat, as a best way to put on weight, and choosing the source of your fats.
Then organize the mix of your usual ingredients.

Then, have you thought about parasites?
They are able to manipulate our tastes, so that we feed them what THEY want!
And they love carbs...
in that case, you feed them and they leave you in peace, and they put on weight, but not you!
Some people have more tendency, and not all type of worms are detectable, nor killed by deworming medicines.

Again this is MY experience, and I go into details about myself so anyone can see what is similar or not.
when I did it (with plants), I was no more able to eat sugar, and even honey was not appealing!
another fact: I was eating 30-50% less...
i mean that i could not finish my usual plate, as I was full quicker!

Thanks paulo.
I must know when I write what is nice to read and when not, as it spoils everybody's time!

I am more pita i think...
I am not fond of fasting...
I have found a topic on de-worming, so I answer there:
https://permies.com/t/3128/medicinal-herbs/Spring-cleansing-focus-parasites#158221

For breakfast, i did use buckwheat, but sprouted! I really love it, the second day after sprout coming out (or else it is too starchy for me).
i did mix it with banana and chia.
Do you think about griding chia for a better availability of this small seed? And it makes a good thickening for breakfast.
You need an electric coffee grinder... (I also grind sunflower or sesame, always white and untoasted, for thick salad sauces.)
I was also adding coconut oil to this mix, and pure cacao...

Do you mix fruits with nuts?
it is good to eat fat with fruits.
Also the mix banana / avocado is good, and will keep you going longer.
I think the fat fills you better when you eat fruits, and also you slow down more the sugar intake.

For social life: say that you discovered you were allergic!
people never insist when you tell about allergy...
Then decide about what... sugar? You cannot say gluten, as you eat it when salted...
I cannot eat yeast either, so it is a good reason not to eat cakes.

coconut oil must be cold pressed...
olives are wonderful in salads, but here I cannot find the black greek style I love!

gas can come from starch, and from a bad "mix". Also I think from pulses that are not sprouted before cooking. And from excess of fat may be...
I see you do not use cereal flakes, this can be a problem for some people, as they oxidate, and must be prepared every day.
I also have gas, still... But I no more look "pregnant"!

Xisca Nicolas wrote:Thanks paulo.
I must know when I write what is nice to read and when not, as it spoils everybody's time!

For breakfast, i did use buckwheat, but sprouted! I really love it, the second day after sprout coming out (or else it is too starchy for me).
i did mix it with banana and chia.
Do you think about griding chia for a better availability of this small seed? And it makes a good thickening for breakfast.
You need an electric coffee grinder... (I also grind sunflower or sesame, always white and untoasted, for thick salad sauces.)
I was also adding coconut oil to this mix, and pure cacao...

Do you mix fruits with nuts?
it is good to eat fat with fruits.
Also the mix banana / avocado is good, and will keep you going longer.
I think the fat fills you better when you eat fruits, and also you slow down more the sugar intake.

So, for your breakfast, you mix sprouted buckwheat (any other grain) with grinded seeds, cacao and coconut oil, right?

I must try that!

What fat do you add to the fruits?
I am eager to go to the supermarket to stock on avocado/bananas; I have been road-stuck already for 5 days due to nasty weather outside. But I guess tomorrow the weather will calm down so I can get to buy all these things to try out

I generally eat the nuts as a snack, alone. As I do the fruits.

For raw carb, raw though sprouted, I really prefer buckwheat for digesting.
I have also tried sprouted quinoa, not bad...
The longer you sprout, the more you transform the carbohydrates in more simple sugars, with less job for the pancreas.

We know that eating any sugar makes its level rise in our blood,
and that we want to slow down the process, right?
This is achieved by mixing sugars to fibers, but also to any fat.
That is why I do not separate sugar and fat.

About banana: I smash it in a plate and always use ripe ones.
Smashing allows oxygen to go further in transforming some remaining carbs (indigestible raw for us).
The banana goes blackish, and its taste sweeter.
So that is the first thing i do if I eat a banana mix.

The fat I add to fruits. A few choices:
- I eat almonds at the same time. Any nut.
- I have a spoonful of coconut oil (creamy, not liquid!), and I eat some of it with a mouthful of fruit.
Of course I can take time to mix this, must I often go straight to the easiest solution with no washing-up!
- I grind chia and make a water mix, chia is fatty.
- I also grind sunflower seeds, flax and sesame (best done by machine than teeth for small seeds)
About sesame: always de-hulled, as it has anti-nutrients as well.
- Any oil can be added. Though too rich in omega 6, I admit that sunflower oil goes well with fruits. I use it always in strawberry salads! I make the salad with a "sauce": some strawberries or even better other berries, sunflower oil, and mint essential oil (and/or leaves as well, nice little green sparkles in the red fruits!) Some lemon juice if wanted...
Strawberry is typically the fruit that I need to eat with a lot of fat, and of course cream is great...
- Avocado: if you want a creamy stuff, then go to the electric mixer! Simply with the fork is efficient but the result and taste is different.
- chocolate : I use the fattiest (20% instead of 11)
- carob powder add some sweet taste, as I never put any sugar with the cacao.

Another great mix: cacao powder into a half pot of the coconut oil, heat, mix and cool!
I even like it with no sugar nor honey... Taste the % you like...
But coconut is an oil supposed not to help to put on weight. But it is medicinal.