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Invasive plants are Earth's way of insisting we notice her medicines. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Everyone learns what works by learning what doesn't work. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Nancy Reading wrote:Hi MJ! I've added your thread to the new wetlands forum.
I've had a little think about what you describe and have a few comments. Maybe not helpful, but may trigger others' thoughts and experiences.
At first I wondered whether the area was shaded (this will not favour the grasses) but you say it is 1000 sq m which would be about 35 metre diameter? Unless the trees are really tall there should be a reasonable amount of sun, especially with the open (?) river at the South. You say the previous owner mowed with a ride on. Do you know how often/ how short they cut the grass? Long grass does tend to shade itself out and become clumpy in my experience; the sort of grasses in a lawn are different to those in a meadow.
The fact the nettles are proliferating suggests that the area is quite fertile soil. Are you removing the cut grass from the area? If it is let be it will increase the fertility further and also mulch itself out in patches. Buttercups love damp soil - they don't like to be mowed down. I now have fewer buttercups in my paths compared to the rest of my field despite only being mown a few times a year. Nettles of course do have multiple uses (one of our useful threads on nettles) but adding to an amenity area is not one of them! I have a few relatively slowly patches of nettles and they can be excessively antisocial in our climate. They don't like being mown, but probably twice a year is not often enough to get rid of an established patch. The only way I've found is to heavily mulch for at least 2 years, or dig/pull any shoots the second year. They do make a stingy understory to my raspberry patch which I just tend to tolerate and trample/chop and drop. I'd love to have a go again at making fiber from nettles...
Himalyan Balsam is not a plant I've had much experience with. It does look pretty! Ken Fern gives it a 3* for edibility (ref), so that may be worth a try. From an eradication point of view it sounds like the timing is critical. If is cut low down below the bottom node it will not regrow. As an annual that is one less (large) plant to shade out your grass and reseed in. If you cut too high apparently it will shoot up lots of flowering spikes rather than just the one (ref)!
I've not had much success with autumn olive either, I think I'm juts a bit too cool for them to thrive.
Bunnies and Rats; both of these will eat anything you want to grow and leave what you don't. The rats would probably be less of a problem if there weren't so much shelter, but bunnies love short grass of course as well.
The default condition I suppose would be to go back to the mower regime. That would at least give you open ground again, but mowing twice a month during the growing season doesn't sound much fun! I'm sure there must be some 'problem is the solution' though! If it were mine I'd be tempted to plant more alder and willow (coppice/pollard woodland), although you'd need to protect the willow from the bunnies.
Mj Lacey wrote:
Going back in time to a similar mowing schedule feels expensive - I would have to acquire a ride-on mower, then store it somewhere, use petrol etc. - I appreciate the thought to eradicate the immediate issue, but the cost of infrastructure would probably make it unviable.
More than anything, this boils down to me questioning the principles now; observing and interacting has made this markedly worse (I stress, this is in my eyes and may not be how the landscape 'feels'). I am trying to give the benefit of the doubt here and consider where 'the problem is the solution', but am completely stumped on how that can be true.
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Nancy Reading wrote:
Mj Lacey wrote:
Going back in time to a similar mowing schedule feels expensive - I would have to acquire a ride-on mower, then store it somewhere, use petrol etc. - I appreciate the thought to eradicate the immediate issue, but the cost of infrastructure would probably make it unviable.
Yes I think the same thing - I only mow my paths a few times a year. But that's fine for us, we do have the equipment - a nice scythe mower to cut long grass, although I prefer my scythe. The mower is "quicker", but leaves all the cuttings all over to rake up, whereas the scythe does most of the gathering for me. Most of our field has no seeds other than a few hazels and docken. Yes we also have creeping thistle and now blackthorn (sloe). Most of these are easy to transplant or live with. I'm mainly aiming for a woodland with clearings, and the trees will shade out my 'weeds' in time.
More than anything, this boils down to me questioning the principles now; observing and interacting has made this markedly worse (I stress, this is in my eyes and may not be how the landscape 'feels'). I am trying to give the benefit of the doubt here and consider where 'the problem is the solution', but am completely stumped on how that can be true.
It does sort of appear that the land doesn't want to be a meadow. Have you examples in your area of the sort of landscape you are aiming for? Can you go and see how they are managed? I still think that the possible lack of sun may be the issue, or maybe the timing of the grass cut. I assume without intervention the land would revert to marshy woodland via brambles...
Trying to achieve self-reliance on a tiny suburban plot: http://gardenofgaladriel.blogspot.com
G Freden wrote:It sounds like ecological succession going on, with the weeds preparing the soil for a future forest. The buttercup is keep the soil from eroding, and the nettle is soaking up the extra nutrients, again to keep them from washing away. Since a meadow isn't ideal for this spot, I give my vote for a little woodland with well spaced trees and perhaps a path or two throughout. The willow and alder are good trees for this, and can be coppiced if needed for firewood/basketry/animal feed/etc. I'm sure many other trees would flourish here, including some fruit or nut trees if desired.
Nuno Donato said, "One thing that fascinates me a lot is hearing stories of how people have applied some of the 12 Permaculture principles in order to solve a problem, or create a better way to do something,
"Suffering is feedback for bad (and ugly) design." (p.174)
Building Your Permaculture Property (Avis & Coen)
Invasive plants are Earth's way of insisting we notice her medicines. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Everyone learns what works by learning what doesn't work. Stephen Herrod Buhner
G Freden wrote:It sounds like ecological succession going on, with the weeds preparing the soil for a future forest. The buttercup is keep the soil from eroding, and the nettle is soaking up the extra nutrients, again to keep them from washing away. Since a meadow isn't ideal for this spot, I give my vote for a little woodland with well spaced trees and perhaps a path or two throughout. The willow and alder are good trees for this, and can be coppiced if needed for firewood/basketry/animal feed/etc. I'm sure many other trees would flourish here, including some fruit or nut trees if desired.
Another thought: it sounds as though some animals might enjoy this space too, particularly ducks and/or geese; however, as you may be aware, in the UK we are under a housing order for all domestic birds because of avian influenza, so they obviously would not be able to access it until this is lifted (last year's ended in May).
Additional thought: mentioned above, some people will simply mow paths through their meadows instead of mowing the whole thing, which would certainly save on effort for you, and still make the space useable for humans. Have the kids build a den in the best hidey spot and mow an unexpected path to it. Put in a bench with a view to a bird feeder and mow to these. Mow a path to the best part of the river for stone skipping. Let the rest grow to its nettle-y, buttercup-y, bramble-y potential.
It seems to me as if you observed, but Mother Nature just has different ideas than the one you chose. I hear your frustration - you feel like you did the best you could, but rather than the land responding the way you thought it would, it's gone off on a tangent you not only didn't expect, but also didn't want.We didn't know what to do here but figured a meadow-type space would be right - so I managed it gently and tried to observe.
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