Siberian Pine (Pinus sibirica) Seeds in Canada

I have been looking for a variety of nut producing pines that will survive in USDA zone 2a (Canada zone 1b). I read somewhere that Siberian pines (Pinus sibirica) would produce in that climate.

Does anybody know where to find seeds for that species of pine in Canada?

Adrien, I bought 2 siberian pines from the Green Barn on Isle Perrot last year. At 20cm tall it will be a while before they produce seeds. He was telling me that all these pines in this part of the world come from a 150 year old tree on Mont St. Hilaire. Maybe there is someone over there who can help you.

I also have 4 Pinus koreansis, also too small to produce for a while, but they should be hardy enough for here. I think the big beautiful pine out the front of the Korean church on Papineau St. just north of Belanger is one. I'm thinking that next fall I'll see if I can find some cones, but I don't know if I can beat the squirrels to them.

Thanks for the info Kota! I'll try to talk to the people on île Perrot.

I wonder if the Korean Pine would survive winters in Abitibi (USDA zone 2a).

Do you have any idea of how long it takes for them to bear cones?

I didn't realize that you were talking about the Abitibi. I think korean pine can bear seed in the cold zone 4 range. I don''t know if it will survive colder than that waiting until the planet warms up even more. Maybe best to hold out for the siberians.
They start to bear in the 8-10 year range but bigger crops will take a while longer than that.

PS merci pour la pomme. lol

Adrien, for questions regarding pine I would talk with Charles Rhora at Rhora's Nut Farm and Nursery

My guess is depending on how high your water table is and how heavy your soil is you might end up with a Stone Pine of some sort rather than a Korean Pine. He does rate the Korean Pine at zone 2 but requires sandy soil. Rhora's also has fruiting cedars that I'm sure extend into zone 1. He has been breeding pine trees longer than anyone else I know of. He also sells specific mycorrihazal fungi which may be of use to you.

From Rhora's

We now have developed inoculants (Mycorrihazal fungi) for each individual species of nut pine which allows the trees to obtain maximum growth each year and will produce pine nuts at a much earlier age.

I second Rhora's--I got some stone pines from him a couple years ago, and they survived their first winter here without issue. Siberian, Korean, and Swiss all survive in Fairbanks, Alaska. It will be some time before mine start producing, but there are specimens at the University of Alaska here which do bear cones. Those are Swiss stone pines, and they've been growing up there for decades now.

I recently received several lbs. of Siberian Pine (P. cembra var sibirica) from the US (original source is Russia) and have some extra that I would sell. I am in Saskatchewan and would be willing to ship to Canadian addresses. PM me if you are interested.

The seeds have germinated!

Very nice! Mine are coming to life as well. What percent germination do you think you got?

Denis Huel wrote:Very nice! Mine are coming to life as well. What percent germination do you think you got?

May have been a dumb question if you planted one seed per cell!!

I planted a fair bit in an outdoor seedbed but am now planting germinated seeds in pots. I did purchase some inoculant from Rhora's as there are no 5-needle pines in my area to get soil under.

I haven't calculated the rate, that picture was almost a week ago and I think there are now a lot more that actually germinated. It might be close to 100%. We planted some in a garden bed, but the squirrels found them

I haven't found a lot of info re growing pines for nuts but am very interested!
Could anyone recommend a good source for more info?

did you get your seed from the ringing cedars guys?

Cee Ray wrote:did you get your seed from the ringing cedars guys?

No, I got the seed from Lawyer Nursery, Inc in MT. I bought all they had at the time about 5.5 lbs. I still have some in storage. I also have several lbs of Korean pine that I got from F.W Schumacher.

Germination was excellent but the birds and ground squirrels were really tough on the germinating seedlings. Screens kept the birds away but the thirteen-striped ground squirrels would burrow under the screens, I lost at least half of my seedlings. I think next year I will try to start the seedlings in Root Trainers and plant out 1 yr seedlings in a nursery bed. Seedling are really slow growing the first year. It will probably take 4-5 years to get a seedling large enough (> 6") to plant out.

those guys are great, I've bought some tree seed from them before..

Cee Ray wrote:those guys are great, I've bought some tree seed from them before..

They ship to Canada? I need to check this out.

I ordered a Korean Pine from Hardy Fruit Trees: http://www.hardyfruittrees.ca/catalog/nut-tree
They say zone 2.
I also saw that a local garden centre has Swiss Stone Pine which is supposedly edible too. They were sold out those. I am going to try next spring again.

Josey Hains wrote:

Cee Ray wrote:those guys are great, I've bought some tree seed from them before..

They ship to Canada? I need to check this out.

I ordered a Korean Pine from Hardy Fruit Trees: http://www.hardyfruittrees.ca/catalog/nut-tree
They say zone 2.
I also saw that a local garden centre has Swiss Stone Pine which is supposedly edible too. They were sold out those. I am going to try next spring again.

There will some additional charges (not insignificant charges) in order to obtain a phytosanitary to satisfy Canadian regulations. In addition some species are probably not admissible. The genus Prunus used to be difficult.

How is your Korean pine doing? When was it planted? I started a Korean pine thread in the Trees section. Maybe we can report on Z3 trials and tribulations there.

Swiss Stone Pine is very similar to Siberian Stone Pine and generally they are considered varieties of the same species. I have seen numerous example of Swiss Stone Pine in Saskatoon, some quite large. Seed size is similar to the Siberian Pine. They appear to be slow but regular growers. A note on pollination, pines will often set a crop of cones with their own pollen. Unfortunately the seeds do not develop properly and the majority will be empty. Best to plant several as a group. How you tried the native Limber Pine?

If you need help obtaining or have questions concerning tree seeds feel to contact me

Denis Huel wrote:

Josey Hains wrote:

Cee Ray wrote:those guys are great, I've bought some tree seed from them before..

They ship to Canada? I need to check this out.

I ordered a Korean Pine from Hardy Fruit Trees: http://www.hardyfruittrees.ca/catalog/nut-tree
They say zone 2.
I also saw that a local garden centre has Swiss Stone Pine which is supposedly edible too. They were sold out those. I am going to try next spring again.

There will some additional charges (not insignificant charges) in order to obtain a phytosanitary to satisfy Canadian regulations. In addition some species are probably not admissible. The genus Prunus used to be difficult.

How is your Korean pine doing? When was it planted? I started a Korean pine thread in the Trees section. Maybe we can report on Z3 trials and tribulations there.

Swiss Stone Pine is very similar to Siberian Stone Pine and generally they are considered varieties of the same species. I have seen numerous example of Swiss Stone Pine in Saskatoon, some quite large. Seed size is similar to the Siberian Pine. They appear to be slow but regular growers. A note on pollination, pines will often set a crop of cones with their own pollen. Unfortunately the seeds do not develop properly and the majority will be empty. Best to plant several as a group. How you tried the native Limber Pine?

If you need help obtaining or have questions concerning tree seeds feel to contact me

I haven't received my pines yet. I only ordered for shipment this fall.
How is your Siberian Stone Pine doing? I heard they are fairly slow growers. I haven't heard about Limber Pine. Is it edible too?
Thanks for the tip on growing them in groups. I will do that. I will also check out the thread in the tree section.

Do you grow other nuts?

Josey Hains wrote:

Denis Huel wrote:

Josey Hains wrote:

Cee Ray wrote:those guys are great, I've bought some tree seed from them before..

They ship to Canada? I need to check this out.

I ordered a Korean Pine from Hardy Fruit Trees: http://www.hardyfruittrees.ca/catalog/nut-tree
They say zone 2.
I also saw that a local garden centre has Swiss Stone Pine which is supposedly edible too. They were sold out those. I am going to try next spring again.

There will some additional charges (not insignificant charges) in order to obtain a phytosanitary to satisfy Canadian regulations. In addition some species are probably not admissible. The genus Prunus used to be difficult.

How is your Korean pine doing? When was it planted? I started a Korean pine thread in the Trees section. Maybe we can report on Z3 trials and tribulations there.

Swiss Stone Pine is very similar to Siberian Stone Pine and generally they are considered varieties of the same species. I have seen numerous example of Swiss Stone Pine in Saskatoon, some quite large. Seed size is similar to the Siberian Pine. They appear to be slow but regular growers. A note on pollination, pines will often set a crop of cones with their own pollen. Unfortunately the seeds do not develop properly and the majority will be empty. Best to plant several as a group. How you tried the native Limber Pine?

If you need help obtaining or have questions concerning tree seeds feel to contact me

I haven't received my pines yet. I only ordered for shipment this fall.
How is your Siberian Stone Pine doing? I heard they are fairly slow growers. I haven't heard about Limber Pine. Is it edible too?
Thanks for the tip on growing them in groups. I will do that. I will also check out the thread in the tree section.

Do you grow other nuts?

My Siberian pines appear to be healthy but grew only 5mm past the cotyledons this year. This was not unexpected. I believe Limber pines are edible. Seed size is smaller than the Swiss and Siberian Stone pines, half size but still substantial.

I am trying to grow other nuts. I have quite a few black walnut and butternut seedlings, 1yr only. I grew the seedling from seed obtained from Grimo Nut Nursery.

Last year I came across a black walnut tree in Moose Jaw nearly 30 ft high and loaded with nuts. I knocked on the door but there was no answer and when I came back a week later sadly the tree had been cut down. Later I read about a something called the Canadian Prairie Walnut Project organized by Ernie Grimo in 1978. He obtained seed from trees grown at the Morden Research Station and distributed them to individuals across the Prairie provinces. Turns out the Moose Jaw tree was grown from seed received at that time. I talked with the original cooperator and he informed me there were offspring of the original tree planted at his nephew's farm. I went to see these trees several weeks ago was surprised to find 3- 15-20ft healthy trees. Although none had nuts this year apparently there was a heavy crop last year. Obviously black walnuts are hardy in my area. My seedlings were grown from nuts obtained from trees of the same strain.

Denis, get and grow as many of those as you can. A couple of years ago I got in touch with one of the participants to Ernie's experiment. Mr. Simrose was located out of Parkbeg and very elderly. I am unsure if he is still alive at this point. I was going to collect but lost my space so I would have to grow these trees in some else' yard space. My concern was that these trees should be healthy and viable enough to self propagate. Being further east, I am unsure if the trees will set fruit in 2b. I really do think they need 3a to fruit. Still the larger collection of gene material we can develop the better chance of developing a fruiting tree in zone 2.

Collin Wolfe wrote:Denis, get and grow as many of those as you can. A couple of years ago I got in touch with one of the participants to Ernie's experiment. Mr. Simrose was located out of Parkbeg and very elderly. I am unsure if he is still alive at this point. I was going to collect but lost my space so I would have to grow these trees in some else' yard space. My concern was that these trees should be healthy and viable enough to self propagate. Being further east, I am unsure if the trees will set fruit in 2b. I really do think they need 3a to fruit. Still the larger collection of gene material we can develop the better chance of developing a fruiting tree in zone 2.

It is a small world at times. The tree in Moose Jaw was Mr. Simrose's tree. Mr. Simrose is still alive and I met with him. The tree was cut down because the nuts were falling into the neighbor's eavestrough. He says he has seedlings still growing in his yard that he cuts down. He asked me if I wanted some. I declined as as I have 150+ 1yr seedlings grown from seed from the Morden trees obtained from E. Grimo. Frankly these trees look solidly hardy and well adapted. Nut size is small. I have seedlings and seed from other likely hardy sources with potentially better nut characteristics to trial as well. I have seen the walnut trees in Regina's Rotary Park and was not impressed although I don't believe it was a good site for walnuts. I will contact Mr. Simrose's nephew next summer and will collect nuts if any are available.

Thank you Denis. I just got a new plot for next year to work over and might be able to plant nut tree in the corner. Have you tried any yellowhorn 3b popcorn trees? The nuts are supposedly edible. Given they liked a drier soil they would be worth a try if you were around Moose Jaw. Have you talked with Rhora's about the zone 2 almond bush he has? If the squirrels were not so prolific in my neighbourhood I'd consider trying one. Would it be possible to contact you next spring to see how you made out at the nephew's? I'd like to get as much genetic diversity as possible (much like your attempt with fir trees) on the black walnuts. I agree the b.w. in Rotary park are not good examples at all. They haven't grown a bit in the last 10 years. I attributed it to the short season but it may have been something else.

I hope to eventually find land to start trials of pretty much everything you've started plus the manchurian walnut for areas with earlier frosts.

Good luck.

Collin Wolfe wrote:Thank you Denis. I just got a new plot for next year to work over and might be able to plant nut tree in the corner. Have you tried any yellowhorn 3b popcorn trees? The nuts are supposedly edible. Given they liked a drier soil they would be worth a try if you were around Moose Jaw. Have you talked with Rhora's about the zone 2 almond bush he has? If the squirrels were not so prolific in my neighbourhood I'd consider trying one. Would it be possible to contact you next spring to see how you made out at the nephew's? I'd like to get as much genetic diversity as possible (much like your attempt with fir trees) on the black walnuts. I agree the b.w. in Rotary park are not good examples at all. They haven't grown a bit in the last 10 years. I attributed it to the short season but it may have been something else.

I hope to eventually find land to start trials of pretty much everything you've started plus the manchurian walnut for areas with earlier frosts.

Good luck.

What's the popcorn tree nut like? I haven't heard about that one?
Almonds for zone 2? Does he sell these? We have no squirrels!!
I got my trees last week and got them all in the ground before the snow. The pines are small but look sturdy and bushy.

The best thing to do is to contact the people at Nuttrees.com and ask them what is in stock

The link below could help answer your questions Josey. I think Alberta stands a better chance (at least southern Alberta) of field testing the Yellowhorn than Saskatchewan. If trials were successful this species would be a great foundation to design a guild around.

http://www.nuttrees.com/specials.htm

Denis, do your Siberian pine seeds have a thin shell that's possible to crack between fingers?

Cee Ray wrote:Denis, do your Siberian pine seeds have a thin shell that's possible to crack between fingers?

Sorry for the late reply but have been having a lot of computer issues lately. Would need really strong fingers!! The shell is quite sturdy but not as thick as Korean Pine.

For those wanting actual siberian pine tree here is a link to get your own seeds. 50 seeds are free to help establish these trees around the world BUT they ask for 9 euros to mail them. They give details on how to get them started. Now is a good time to do this. IF instructions are followed to exactly they claim 99% of those you plant will germinate. Pine nut trees can take 8 years to produce nuts according to my research. If that is true that is a lot better then planting maple syrup trees, waiting 30 years to get the sap. But for me sustainability means planting now anyway then it is there for the next generation. Anyway here is the link http://ecominded.net/cedar-products/50-cedar-seeds-detail.html

It's around that time of year in Canada to get those seeds stratifying. I just put 150 seabuckthorn seeds into the fridge for 8 weeks.

If anyone at permies has Siberian pine nuts to share I would be very grateful.