What tree is this? What variety?

I have a volunteer tree. I suspect it was planted by a squirrel, but I can't prove that.


The leaves definitely grow in this sort of round pattern.


The leaves are different sizes, with this being one of the larger ones.


The tree is still fairly young, but this is what the bark looks like.

I would really like to know what tree this is. I don't think it's local to the Pacific Wet Coast as it's not one that looks familiar to me. That said, I'm pretty bad at recognizing trees... Better if they have flowers and fruit, but I don't think this tree is old enough to do either, as I have been keeping an eye on it.

My guess is an English (Persian) walnut (Juglans regia). These trees have pinnate leaves with smooth edges. And squirrels love to plant them (and eat them!). In fact, I would say walnuts are the favorite food of most squirrels (and crows). The bark is also kind of a grey color. See if your tree matches this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juglans_regia

If not, ash trees also have pinnate leaves.

Jay, if it is a walnut, be sure to let me know if you want any advice about how they fit into a food forest. (In my experience, English/Persian walnuts are great trees for a food forest, but they should be planted far away from most other trees or veggies, except fellow walnuts. this is because their roots emit a toxin that almost all other plants don't like.)

Thanks M.K. - my gut feeling was suggesting walnut, but as I mentioned, I don't know of any other walnut trees around here to compare it to.
If I can believe the web, Ash trees always have opposite, paired branches and this tree definitely doesn't.

If it is an English walnut, it seems they aren't as difficult to grow near other plants than the Black Walnut is. It certainly has grass growing under it. However it is also still young!.

Thanks

M.K. Dorje Sr. wrote:Jay, if it is a walnut, be sure to let me know if you want any advice about how they fit into a food forest.

I do have a list on my computer that I kept for future planning - and there's a thread here on permies ( https://permies.com/wiki/117880/Juglone-Sensitivity-List ).

However, Hubby doesn't particularly like where the squirrel planted it. Have you ever tried to layer walnut trees? I've never had much luck trying to root woody perennials - even ones people insist are easy. Since layering seems to work better for me, I'm tempted to try it regardless, as it has a branch quite close to the ground which I could easily lead into a pot.

I used to have a large English walnut in my garden,  right next to the house. It was a productive tree, but its root system was incredibly aggressive, extending far beyond the 35' dripline circle and thwarting anything from growing near it. It produced a lot of juglone and took up a ton of valuable space. After a lot of deliberation, I decided to remove the tree, take out  the stump  with a stump grinder and replace it with several beds of veggies and fruit. But I made a deal with the tree before it was cut down:  I saved two of the volunteer offspring , potted them up for a year and then the next year I transplanted them to a spot of their own on the other side of my property with some Japanese heartnuts, out of zone 1 and away from my food forest garden and orchard. One advantage they have is that deer don't like them, so they don't need to be fenced at all.  By the way, my veggies and fruit plants are all thriving in the area of the walnut tree's former root zone.

My propagation book says nothing at all about root layering or cuttings. Typically, commercial growers and nurseries use trees that are grafted using the whip-and-tongue method, but this is not an easy method for beginners. I think most permaculture folks use transplanted volunteers. Or they just plant the nuts, stratify them at 41 F. for 120-190 days, then grow them in 1 gallon pots for a year before transplanting to their final location. Give them a LOT of space. In my opinion, seedlings are the best way to grow walnuts.

My suggestion is to wait until your tree is dormant, carefully dig it up next winter and grow it in a pot for a year. Then transplant it the following winter. You might also find a mate for it , too!

By the way, here is a another list of juglone tolerant plants:

https://www.gardeningchannel.com/juglone-tolerant-plants-grow-black-walnut/

Good luck!

Crush some plant tissues. Do they have the typical black walnut smell? I have both ash and walnut and here are the leaves side by side.

May Lotito wrote:Crush some plant tissues. Do they have the typical black walnut smell? I have both ash and walnut and here are the leaves side by side.

I *really* don't think it's Black Walnut. It does fit the description of English (Persian) Walnut. Does it smell differently than Black Walnut?

I don't think I've ever met a Black Walnut tree. Would the smell be similar enough to store bought walnut bits for me to recognize?

Does your Ash tree follow the "branches are is opposite pairs" rule? My tree has *no* paired branches.

Just like "Maple" trees, leaf shape on different Walnut varieties seem quite different according to G---e.

I don't know the difference between walnut trees. If the leaves aren't opposite, it's not ash.

i’m growing lots of black walnuts, among lots of other things. i agree that your tree is likely a persian walnut, not ash, probably not black walnut.

my sources suggest that root cuttings, layering, and other asexual propagation techniques have very low success rates. grafting is about the only thing that might work, and that would require you to have a rootstock or three ready for you - and may not work without being able to use dormant scion, which i imagine you don’t have in the fridge. from my experience, i’d say that whip-and-tongue isn’t all that challenging, even for beginners…but my best results on walnuts have been using rind/crown/bark grafts onto larger in-situ rootstocks - say 2-4 inches diameter at grafting height, which i usually put above deer-browse level, so 6 feet or so. but you’re not asking for grafting tips, so i’ll stop!

if it can stay in place for this season, it should be possible to dig out enough root to move it when it’s dormant. if trying that, i’d cut the top back quite a ways - back to just a couple feet or so

greg mosser wrote: if it can stay in place for this season, it should be possible to dig out enough root to move it when it’s dormant. if trying that, i’d cut the top back quite a ways - back to just a couple feet or so

Yes, it certainly can stay where it is for another year at least, but if we can agree on its "forever home", the sooner it gets moved, the better.

I figured that trying to get the lower branch to root was a long shot, but I've got a few tricks up my sleeve. I don't layer it into the ground as we have such bad summer droughts that it would be too much work. I put the branch through a hole I made in the side of a good sized pot, making sure that several nodes would be in contact with the soil. The pot has a reservoir under it, so it will be easy to keep it fairly damp. I will report back on the results... but don't hold your breath, as I've often left plants like this for two whole winters to convince them I'm serious about them putting roots down into my pot!

This picture shows how I covered the branch with dirt then a rock to keep it stable:



Then I topped up the pot with more soil and added water to the reservoir underneath.



You can see the branch coming into the pot on the right side. It will work, or it won't.

It looks like an English (Persian) Walnut to me.
We have several. Also some wild (native) Black walnuts.

They do smell quite differently.
The leaves of the English walnut are super fragrant when they are crushed-both sweet and floral in the juglone way.
The Black Walnut by contrast, not as much.
But, the fruit of the black walnut seem to concentrate all the smells and flavor, even more so than the English.and probably the roots of the BlackWalnut have more Juglone than the English.

I have found Pear, Plums, Gooseberries, Currants of all kinds, Manzanita, Comfrey, Oaks of all sorts, Blackberries, Figs, Privet, Liquid Amber, all Conifers, Sages, Nasturtiums, Hazelnuts, and all wild lettuces and grasses seem to do fine with the English Walnut. There are lists out there for a surprising number of plants that don’t mind juglone.

Oh and my sheep love the leaves and surprisingly, the hulls, of the English Walnut. Not so much the Black Walnut.