A good financial mindset is a major tool can drive permaculture forward... Much Faster.

After reading the following "13 steps to investing foolishly" at Fool.com I had my life transformed. In fact, my entire outlook on life and the understanding of the way the world works changed a bit.

I had not found permaculture yet at that point. However, when all was said and done I now look at every single dollar I will ever spend as an investment. In fact, this is the very reason why permaculture made so much financial sense to me when I found it. Permaculture and... well... nature itself seems to have a lot of compounding interest. One of my favorite things in investing.

At that point in my life I was like the typical person with several car payments and such. Now I see just how very important every dollar is... or will be... in the future.

I am now living a life debt free and have soooooo much more insight and freed up money to invest... then re-invest.

The "13 steps" are really 13 articles. I hope some of you get a chance to read them. Steps 1 and 3 were the most profound to me. When you are done you will see Unnecessary debt as a cancer eating away at your future and your children's future....

http://www.fool.com/how-to-invest/thirteen-steps/index.aspx?source=ifltnvsnv0000001

Quote from article 3... "To us, an investment is more than something you make in your brokerage account. An investment is anything that affects the quality of your life. Once the basics are covered -- food, shelter, workplace-appropriate attire -- every dollar equals opportunity. And every day presents new opportunities to make your money work harder for you"

I just wanted to add what my plans are so far to share a few ideas...

1. I first of all don't have any debt.

I got every vehicle paid off. So now I have almost $500 less in vehicle payments and no more full coverage insurance to pay every month. No credit card debt ever either. If the average person were to free up an averaged $750 a month from leaving their wallets... that is $270,000 more in their pockets in just 30yrs. If you were to have been investing that $750 each month in some way and were to earn just 7% interest on it annually... that equals $850,000 after the same 30yrs! The overall stock market has averaged around 10% annually for since before the last great depression. Yes, the first... and recent depressions have all bounced back to still average around 10% annually. Anyways, I have a feeling nature can give you more rewards than this... even if it does not then it is still a better reward.

2. Skills.

I could totally rebuild any vehicle and anything around the home with the tools and skills I possess... so that is yet another asset that rewards me thousands every year. Thousands to re-invest into either myself or my family.

Also, I am currently acquiring the skill of cloning plants. So even though I am filling my tiny .36 acre lot with a relatively small amount of plants... I will not only get 30 to 350 years of free food from them... I will be able to clone everything!!! When I grow to the point of buying more land... I will only be buying a few bags of seed for flowers and cover crops and such. The trees will all be for FREE. Many from seed to of course. I would also have a better understanding of what works best in my area before buying large amounts of the wrong things for not.

3. Growing food I eat.

If the average family of 4 really does spend that $15,000 annually that I read about recently(I have a family of 4)... then being able to cover just 80% of that would net me $12,000 tax-free dollars every year to re-invest. If the average person were to pay say 30% tax on allllllllllllllllllllllllllll of the different taxes we have to get the food on their plate. Just the savings on taxes is awesome. $12,000 over 30 years invested at 7% equals $1,133,529.44 after 30 years. Could be more if you add in the taxes.

4. Extra income sources.

Just saving money is usually the very best place to start. You usually have to spend money to make money. You don't have to spend money to save money though... usually.

Now that I am out of debt I was able to purchase my own home. I hope to convert it into an income property some day and to get around $1500 a month in extra income from having a rental addition to the house. My house payment would be gone on that day! You had better believe that I will put the whole(edible landscaping) as one of the pluses in my add for finding a renter. I just have to convince my wife to let me do it. :S $1,500 at 7% for 30yrs is $1,700,294.15.


Many of the cul-de-sacs within my neighborhood dead end in either a patch of woods or a farmer's field. I hope to either buy one of those... or buy just outside the neighborhood. Setting up a farmer's market/ you-pick-it combo place there. I paid $25 for a gallon of non-organic strawberries last year. That place was packed too. A big thing around here. I would do it so something would almost always be in season for fruit... and Sepp style veggies and fruit for the you-pick-it/farmers market. This is all a forward looking dream in this paragraph! lol I would not mind setting up a website to ease the shopping experience. The customer could place and order the day before and I would either drop it off at their doorstep in the neighborhood or have it waiting on them on their way home from work to make dinner.

I currently have worked myself into a position to where I am working on aircraft avionics. No college degree or debt required. Making good money. I am not going to count this in the final tally. My wife is a registered Nurse. She is debt free and driving the same car her dad gave her in high school. Almost 30yrs old now. I will not count her paycheck even though we are currently able to save the whole thing since we are living off of my paycheck. Not going to count potential profit from farming. Not going to count potential profit from doing my own work on all things. Not going to count money saved through health insurance. Not going to count money from other potential things. Just from what I know without a doubt I can do... here is the total money made/saved just through frugality and having the mindset that every single dollar counts.


Total money from saving and investing would be $850,000(debt savings) $133,529.44(food savings) plus $1,700,294.15(rental property) equals $3,683,823.59 within 30yrs!!!

Of course that is not accounting for the surprises I will encounter during my life... or taxes either! However, not counting those extra income streams helps too level the playing field in my eyes.

What are some of you guys and gals looking to do?

Marty Mitchell wrote:
3. Growing food I eat.

If the average family of 4 really does spend that $15,000 annually that I read about recently(I have a family of 4)... then being able to cover just 80% of that would net me $12,000 tax-free dollars every year to re-invest. If the average person were to pay say 30% tax on allllllllllllllllllllllllllll of the different taxes we have to get the food on their plate. Just the savings on taxes is awesome. $12,000 over 30 years invested at 7% equals $1,133,529.44 after 30 years. Could be more if you add in the taxes.

I have a few issues with this.

Generally speaking, we don't pay tax on food in America except on prepared food and even that doesn't come close to 30%.

We live in very abnormal times regarding interest rates. The 30 year rate on treasuries is 3.6% and of course that's not compounding. I'm not sure why your using 7% but it does come in handy due to the rule of 70.

Just compounding $12,000 over 30 years comes to $91,347.06. If you mean 7% compounding plus adding $12000 each year then your number is correct but that assumes $0 cost to growing the food and that's deceptive.

People often ask me if I'm saving money raising my own livestock and produce. Are you comparing my beef to individual cuts from the farmers market, buying a whole or half grass fed beef, or buying crap beef from the supermarket?

I do love playing around with the math but generally speaking, it's not as simple or direct as 7% compounding over 30 years.

Cj Verde wrote:

Generally speaking, we don't pay tax on food in America except on prepared food and even that doesn't come close to 30%.

I think what Marty means is that he has to earn 30% more than he spends just to pay the income taxes if he had to buy that food in the cash economy, not sales tax.
Utah has a 3% sales tax on all food, over 6 if prepared food. It has only been discounted for a couple years. Other states I have lived in also charge sales tax on food, so it's not a universal exemption.

Yes. I was talking about investing the $12,000 every year and compounding it.

The 7% was just a made up number to aspire to. Reality could be more or less.

The 30% tax was not just the sales tax for food... but all the taxes paid for every dollar earned to buy the food. Federal tax, State tax, medicare, social security, etc. Even the gas spent driving the to store would be a negative in my eyes. Also, the gas used to drive to work to make the money. Time and money can be better spent. Some of the wealthiest in the U.S. can pay as much as 50% of profits into taxes allegedly.

Even just letting your money sit in vast quantities in a savings account somewhere is a bad idea in my opinion. The gov has devised a way to still take money from you even when it sits idle. Its called inflation.

I totally agree that real life is not clear and direct like my hypothetical example.

As far as your beef goes I have no clue where to comment on it for money savings. I suppose you could do like my friends and family do back in Georgia and Tennessee. They simply go to cattle auctions when there is a surplus of cows during drought years for cheap... and buy the skinniest crappiest looking calves that nobody will bid on. They give the calves their shots and put them to pasture for a few years. Keeping the numbers low enough not to have to buy hay ever(still stockpile some though). Keeping a mixture of cool weather and hot weather grasses growing. Then either butchering them themselves or finding a friend to do it for free or cheap. Most keep a single bull to father a few calves a year. Then harvest the claves at 2yrs of age or so. So they never have to buy anymore animals usually. They usually end up selling their surplus of hay at a premium during the drought years and then using that same money to buy the animals other owners are being forced to sell for cheap.

I am not going to be raising meat of any kind other than maybe chickens for eggs. That is actually why I said I would be only growing 80% of the food I eat(as a goal). My wife is a vegan so that helps a bit in my personal situation.

Marty, you make some good points there. I find many people just do not live within their means these days and then on the other side, I have met a couple that have savings but are way to conservative with their investments. I think if you can find that balance you at least will be on the road to happiness. That being said I am sure some find happiness in driving a brand new BMW - even if it's on HP and they are in debt to their eyeballs - who are we to judge hey?!

Mark Thomas wrote:Marty, you make some good points there. I find many people just do not live within their means these days and then on the other side, I have met a couple that have savings but are way to conservative with their investments. I think if you can find that balance you at least will be on the road to happiness. That being said I am sure some find happiness in driving a brand new BMW - even if it's on HP and they are in debt to their eyeballs - who are we to judge hey?!

+1

I am totally on board with you.

Life is to short. I always hope that whatever everyone is doing... is what makes them happy.

For me it is about my family and increasing their quality of life in every way possible.