Forum:

fermentation

use old raw milk-make yoghurt

Leila Rich

steward

Posts: 3999

Location: Wellington, New Zealand. Temperate, coastal, sandy, windy,

115

posted 10 years ago

1
Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

If you use raw milk you'll know what I mean: being 'alive' it has a pretty short shelf-life.
I find my milk doesn't sour, as much as get smelly.
I've tried and tried to keep a healthy raw milk yoghurt going, but it always goes weird and stringy.
I now freeze icecubes of my local Indian grocers' yoghurt,
and when my milk starts to 'turn', I pour it into a jar and add a frozen yoghurt cube.
The yoghurt loses any 'off' taste-the fermentation process must knock out whatever is making the milk go off
and the yoghurt will last another week in the fridge.

mike grim

Posts: 13

posted 10 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Leila Rich wrote:If you use raw milk you'll know what I mean: being 'alive' it has a pretty short shelf-life.
I find my milk doesn't sour, as much as get smelly.
I've tried and tried to keep a healthy raw milk yoghurt going, but it always goes weird and stringy.
I now freeze icecubes of my local Indian grocers' yoghurt,
and when my milk starts to 'turn', I pour it into a jar and add a frozen yoghurt cube.
The yoghurt loses any 'off' taste-the fermentation process must knock out whatever is making the milk go off
and the yoghurt will last another week in the fridge.

Leila,

I've been drinking raw milk for about 8 years. I have never made yogurt but I did make kefir for a while. The longest I've kept raw milk without it souring is 31 days. I keep it in a separate refrigerator at about 33 degrees. After about a week my wife doesn’t like the way it looks and smells. I've tried to convince her that it tastes the same but she's not buying it.

Here's my theory on the smell. I think it's the film on the inside of the container. Try pouring the milk in a glass. See if it still smells. I've left have full containers of raw milk out for weeks. They do separate into curds and whey but I don't think they smell bad. They smell like cheese. Now on the other hand, if you leave out a capped empty bottle or even worse, a bottle you have only rinsed and not washed, that bottle will put you out of the house when you open it. Am I right?

I think it is only the film. Maybe the milk dies or oxidizes, especially when it's rinsed with chlorinated tap water.

Have you ever used those stainless steal water bottles for raw milk? The milk doesn't seem to last more than a few days in them.

Please let me know what you think.

333

Adam Klaus

author

Posts: 961

Location: Appalachian Rainforest of NC, 2200' elevation, 85" precip, Zn 7

posted 10 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Leila Rich wrote:If you use raw milk you'll know what I mean: being 'alive' it has a pretty short shelf-life.

Not my experience, as a raw milk dairyman.

There are several keys to keeping quality of raw milk, I have found.
-Zero grain in the cow's diet is first and foremost
-Machine milking
-Rapid cooling of the milk
-Sterile sealed jars for storage

When all of the above are achieved, the milk will last for 3-4 weeks without loss of quality.

There are so many ways to do raw milk wrong, and the end result will prove the point. Raw milk is delicate, and needs to be produced and handled with excellent protocol. Good dairy farmers give raw milk a good name, in the interest of public perception, we all need to endeavor to support these good farmers, so that raw milk can regain the positive reputation it deserves.

sorry for the thread drift..... I'm kinda passionate about raw milk quality.

Order copies of my book, Dairy Farming: The Beautiful Way at
www.createspace.com
Help spread the word! Thanks!
struggle - hustle - soul - desire

mike grim

Posts: 13

posted 10 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Adam Klaus wrote:

Leila Rich wrote:If you use raw milk you'll know what I mean: being 'alive' it has a pretty short shelf-life.

Not my experience, as a raw milk dairyman.

There are several keys to keeping quality of raw milk, I have found.
-Zero grain in the cow's diet is first and foremost
-Machine milking
-Rapid cooling of the milk
-Sterile sealed jars for storage

When all of the above are achieved, the milk will last for 3-4 weeks without loss of quality.

There are so many ways to do raw milk wrong, and the end result will prove the point. Raw milk is delicate, and needs to be produced and handled with excellent protocol. Good dairy farmers give raw milk a good name, in the interest of public perception, we all need to endeavor to support these good farmers, so that raw milk can regain the positive reputation it deserves.

sorry for the thread drift..... I'm kinda passionate about raw milk quality.

Please don't forget A2 milk from cows that are not pregnant.

333

Kathleen Payne

Posts: 5

Location: Three Oaks, Michigan

posted 10 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Leila Rich wrote:If you use raw milk you'll know what I mean: being 'alive' it has a pretty short shelf-life.
I find my milk doesn't sour, as much as get smelly.
I've tried and tried to keep a healthy raw milk yoghurt going, but it always goes weird and stringy.
I now freeze icecubes of my local Indian grocers' yoghurt,
and when my milk starts to 'turn', I pour it into a jar and add a frozen yoghurt cube.
The yoghurt loses any 'off' taste-the fermentation process must knock out whatever is making the milk go off
and the yoghurt will last another week in the fridge.

Leila, are you actually using "old raw milk" for your yogurt? If that is the case, I wouldn't use "old anything" as an ingredient. Try it fresh. I am a city girl who married a dairy farmer so raw milk was a whole (no pun intended) new experience for me and it's awesome! I've never had a problem with it spoiling because raw milk is the only milk we consume therefore is used before it can spoil. The past few months I ventured into making my own yogurt for the first time. I just cannot stand having to purchase any dairy products when I've got the shebang right here! Anyway, my yogurt has always came out wonderful. Like the greek yogurt they sell in the store but oh so much better. I make it like the fruit on the bottom type. I put about a teaspoon of my strawberry jam in the bottom of a 4 oz canning jar and pour the yogurt on top and finish the process. Nice, creamy and tasty is the end result. I keep one jar as plain so that is my starter for the next batch. It's so good it converted a friend who couldn't stand yogurt. Now she's hooked!

mike grim

Posts: 13

posted 10 years ago

1
Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Since this seems to be a pro-raw milk thread I am wondering if folks could check my math and my logic on some raw milk arguments.

1. People that switch to raw milk and who drink a couple of glasses a day, know it has health benefits in a matter weeks and know it is safe in a matter of months.

2. According to these 2 US government studies raw milk actually has a negative risk factor : 1. Raw Milk Consumption among Patients with Non–Outbreak-related Enteric Infections, Minnesota, USA, 2001–2010. An estimated 17.3% of raw milk consumers in Minnesota may have acquired an illness caused by 1 of these enteric pathogens during the 10-year study period. (That's 1.7% per year.) or (1 in 59) wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/20/1/pdfs/12-0920.pdf 2. According to new estimates from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, about 48 million people (That's 15% per year or 1 in 6 Americans) get sick and 3,000 die each year from foodborne diseases. www.cdc.gov/media/pressrel/2010/r101215.html When you look at these 2 studies you can see that the US Center for Disease Control has inadvertently demonstrated that people who don't drink raw milk are 9 times more likely to contract a so called foodborne illness. In other words raw milk prevents 1.3 million cases of foodborne disease and 90 deaths every year in the US.

3. Christopher Gardner, a researcher at Stanford University, said he wanted to find out if there really was any effect on lactose intolerance from drinking raw milk. When he found out that most of his over 440 lactose intolerant volunteers actually had no trouble digesting lactose(instead of admitting that he had just proven that lactose intolerance has nothing to do with lactose), he decided instead to do a study on 16 lactose malabsorbers. What's so absurd about this is that lactose malabsorption is not really a problem in this country while lactose intolerance most certainly is. Most lactose malabsorbers are not even mildly lactose intolerant. They claim to have proven us wrong when in fact they have actually proven us right.

4. What is an outbreak of so called foodborne illness? These numbers come directly from a resent CDC report on a cucumbers, salmonella outbreak. This is a typical example of what the CDC passes off as an outbreak of foodborne illness. I'm hoping everyone can see just how absurd this is? DATCP has redefined adulteration and misbranding(it now means the exact opposite of what the consumer would assume). They have redefined milk(It no longer means fresh.) They have redefined the dairy industry(Which no longer includes the dairy farmer.) They have redefined themselves and they have redefined the term food safety. 1. Illness; diarrhea caused by stress and malnutrition and not cancer, heart disease, osteoporosis, lactose intolerance etc. Aren't these what the public would naturally assume the state is referring to when they say illness? 2. Food; only agricultural commodities and not canned food, cakes, cookies, candy, soda, chocolate milk etc. They are totally ignoring the really toxic foods that make up the majority of our diet. They actually have us afraid of spinach and sprouts, two of the healthiest foods on the planet. 3. Outbreak; 73 cases in 3 months, while the over 300 million other cases of diarrhea in this country are not even acknowledged. The average American gets diarrhea 4 times a year. There was no evidence to show that these 73 cases were actually caused by salmonella. 4. Association; cucumbers, because 67% of the 45 ill interviewed ate cucumbers while only 44% of the well people surveyed ate cucumbers and not because of any actual Salmonella contamination found. 5. Blame; 2 Mexican producers because 6 of the 45 ill interviewed eat their cucumbers and not because of any actual Salmonella contamination found.

333

Leila Rich

steward

Posts: 3999

Location: Wellington, New Zealand. Temperate, coastal, sandy, windy,

115

posted 10 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Leila Rich wrote:If you use raw milk you'll know what I mean: being 'alive' it has a pretty short shelf-life

Leila, lay off on the 'personal experience as universal truth' thing, alright?

mike grim wrote:the longest I've kept raw milk without it souring is 31 days

Adam Klaus wrote:
There are several keys to keeping quality of raw milk, I have found.
-Zero grain in the cow's diet is first and foremost
-Machine milking
-Rapid cooling of the milk
-Sterile sealed jars for storage
When all of the above are achieved, the milk will last for 3-4 weeks without loss of quality

Cripes! Mine starts to taste/smell a bit 'strong' at around six-seven days.
Since I get it weekly, I've always thought that was kind of handy.
But it should last a month (with proper care)!?
I'm part of a co-op and my milk gets delivered to a central drop-off.
It's all stored in polybins and is always cold when I pick it up.
To the best of my knowledge Adam's 'keys to milk quality' are in place, so I think it's likely a temperature issue.

mike grim wrote:Try pouring the milk in a glass. See if it still smells. I've left have full containers of raw milk out for weeks. They do separate into curds and whey but I don't think they smell bad. They smell like cheese

That's the bit that gets to me-I'm fine with sour/cheesy', but mine just smells 'off'-
I'm not a delicate flower in the smell/taste department: my fridge is basically a place to put ferments that got a bit strong for the pantry

mike grim wrote:Have you ever used those stainless steal water bottles for raw milk? The milk doesn't seem to last more than a few days in them

No I haven't. I used glass for a while, but got lazy and the milk stays in the plastic it comes in.

mike grim

Posts: 13

posted 10 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Leila Rich wrote:

Leila Rich wrote:If you use raw milk you'll know what I mean: being 'alive' it has a pretty short shelf-life.

Cripes! Mine starts to taste/smell a bit 'strong' at around six-seven days.

I'm part of a co-op and my milk gets delivered to a central drop-off.

That's the bit that gets to me-I'm fine with sour/cheesy', but mine just smells 'off'- I used glass for a while, but got lazy and the milk stays in the plastic it comes in.

Leila, To be honest it was the Holstein milk from a 90 cow operation that went 31 days without souring. The Jersey milk from the 36 cow operation seldom lasts 2 weeks without souring. It's sometimes warm when it gets to us. And he runs out of Jersey in the winter. At the larger farm I fill my own containers. The smaller farm puts it in glass caning jars for us.

How long did your supermarket milk last in the freg. back before you switched to raw milk.

You never said what you thought of my film theory. I to, have been using a lot of plastic lately. Those do smell. Does your milk still smell off after you pour in it a cup to drink?

333

Leila Rich

steward

Posts: 3999

Location: Wellington, New Zealand. Temperate, coastal, sandy, windy,

115

posted 10 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

mike grim wrote:How long did your supermarket milk last in the freg. back before you switch to raw milk

As far as I can remember, it never went off before I needed more.
I've never seen pasteurised milk go off unless something happens like someone goes away for several weeks and it's forgotten in the fridge...
I've drunk pasteurised milk that was a few weeks past it's 'use by' and it didn't have a hint of turning.
It didn't taste like anything at all in fact

mike grim wrote:You never said what you thought of my film theory. I to, have been using a lot of plastic lately. Those do smell

I kinda did, but not really

I agree that some containers seem to be worse than others for making milk go off.
Kind of makes sense as plastic's quite 'rough' and catches milk particles more than smooth glass. As for stainless, I haven't a clue.
But I suspect temperature has the biggest impact on milk longevity after it's in my own fridge,
and that works in with your theory: a film will heat up very fast, and 'taint' will be transported into the 'main body' of the milk every time it's poured.

mike grim wrote:Does your milk still smell off after you pour in it a cup to drink?

Yip, once it starts to go I don't drink it on its own-it smells and tastes a bit too strong.

I've turned my fridge down to where there's some ice crystals floating in the milk,
which has made it last longer in the past- it makes my whole fridge colder than I like though!

mike grim

Posts: 13

posted 10 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Leila Rich wrote:If you use raw milk you'll know what I mean: being 'alive' it has a pretty short shelf-life.
I find my milk doesn't sour, as much as get smelly.
I've tried and tried to keep a healthy raw milk yoghurt going, but it always goes weird and stringy.
I now freeze icecubes of my local Indian grocers' yoghurt,
and when my milk starts to 'turn', I pour it into a jar and add a frozen yoghurt cube.
The yoghurt loses any 'off' taste-the fermentation process must knock out whatever is making the milk go off
and the yoghurt will last another week in the fridge.

Leila, I agree with absolutely everything you've said but I still can't tell for sure, if your understand what I'm saying. Have you actually tasted your raw milk after it gets smelly? Have you poured the smelly milk into a glass and smelled it again? It may not be the milk that you are smelling.

If your having trouble with yogurt why not try kefir?

I sure wish I knew how to use the quote button.

333

Leila Rich

steward

Posts: 3999

Location: Wellington, New Zealand. Temperate, coastal, sandy, windy,

115

posted 10 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Leila Rich wrote:

mike grim wrote:Does your milk still smell off after you pour in it a cup to drink?

Yip, once it starts to go I don't drink it on its own-it smells and tastes a bit too strong.

mike grim wrote:I still can't tell for sure, if your understand what I'm saying. Have you actually tasted your raw milk after it gets smelly? Have you poured the smelly milk into a glass and smelled it again? It may not be the milk that you are smelling

I'm pretty sure I do understand; I'm clearly just not explaining myself properly

I've tried it and it's unpleasant. I still drink it in tea as most of the taint is overwhelmed by the tea flavour.

mike grim wrote:If your having trouble with yogurt why not try kefir?

I'm not-the original topic was how I use old milk to make perfectly good yoghurt.
I just made a great batch of end-of-week-milk yoghurt:)
this quote thread might be useful.

Kathleen Payne

Posts: 5

Location: Three Oaks, Michigan

posted 10 years ago

1
Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Leila Rich wrote:

Leila Rich wrote:

mike grim wrote:Does your milk still smell off after you pour in it a cup to drink?

Yip, once it starts to go I don't drink it on its own-it smells and tastes a bit too strong.

mike grim wrote:I still can't tell for sure, if your understand what I'm saying. Have you actually tasted your raw milk after it gets smelly? Have you poured the smelly milk into a glass and smelled it again? It may not be the milk that you are smelling

I'm pretty sure I do understand; I'm clearly just not explaining myself properly
I've tried it and it's unpleasant. I still drink it in tea as most of the taint is overwhelmed by the tea flavour.

mike grim wrote:If your having trouble with yogurt why not try kefir?

I'm not-the original topic was how I use old milk to make perfectly good yoghurt.
I just made a great batch of end-of-week-milk yoghurt:)
this quote thread might be useful.

Leila,
It sounds as if by the time you pick up your milk from your share, it might have gotten too warm. The container the milk is in won't matter as long as the milk has been kept cold. We use a plastic pitcher to collect and keep the milk in. I do get it straight out of our bulk tank that is kept at roughly somewhere around 35-38 F. Have you ever visited the farm where your milk comes from? Perhaps you can pick it up from there when it's the absolute most fresh. It really is a shame that you invest that much into a wonderful product only to get a poorer quality than should be expected since it really should never have a smell to it. Unless of course you don't use it very often.

mike grim

Posts: 13

posted 10 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Leila Rich wrote: I'm not-the original topic was how I use old milk to make perfectly good yoghurt.
I just made a great batch of end-of-week-milk yoghurt:)
this quote thread might be useful.

Thanks for the code info Leila.

Do you add anything to your yogurt like sugar or fruit?

333

Everybody! Do the Funky Monkey! Like this tiny ad!

12 DVDs bundle

https://permies.com/wiki/269050/DVDs-bundle