Vegan Biodynamics

I'm interested in learning more about vegan biodynamics. Replacing all animal products with non-animal products. Sheaths of, say, ceramic rather than a cow horn. And instead of a bladder, what could be used?
I am really surprised I haven't seen much about this. Does anyone have any leads or examples for vegan biodynamic practices?

I am interested in this too. I don't really know anything about it but I met a women at a natural dye workshop a few years ago who mentioned she was growing horsetail to use in vegan biodynamic gardening.

Fascinating. I am really interested in learning about natural dyes. I got a book on it and am so surprised at what is available from plants all around me. I'm eager to try it. I guess I was kind of naive and thought that dyes only came from things like berries, things with strong-seeming pigmentation. I will have to look into how these natural dyes wear, and whether they wash out over time, and how to keep the colors fast.

But regarding vegan biodynamics, I know there are elements of BD which have nothing to do with the use of animals, and I'm glad about that. Following a calendar, moon cycles, and composting -- everything makes sense to me there. But I have to say that with regard to the use of animal parts and products, there must be a better way, one suited to those who are vegan. Additionally, vegan BD would certainly look a lot better to some folks who find BD to be antiquated or peculiar specifically because of the ways animals are regarded/used. Adapting and learning a way around the use of animal products but which addresses the same subtle concerns seems pertinent. I personally have some experience with traditional BD and I know that there must be suitable analogues. I just don't know what they are.

Instead of using cow horns, what?
Instead of bladders, skulls, etc, what?

Take for example the importance given to stirring the preps, creating the vortex, swirling back and forth, the creation of chaos, etc. Cool stuff, and it makes some good sense. The container should be earthenware, not plastic. Well, there is some flexibility about what you use, and the reasoning seems accessible: use something good and grounded that doesn't leach. There is in general an absence of, say, dogma about the stirring container. But the sheaths for preps are so specific and at the end of the day that seems a little arbitrary. Because there are many plants of power in nature. Why only these select few, and why only these select few animal parts?

How much is BD about making a certain style of farm, and how adaptable can it be to different modes of agriculture based on different crops and cultures and climates?

It's ok to use a plastic sprayer to spread the preps, because, well, it does a good job of it. But why is it unthinkable to use, say, some kind of earthenware horn instead of a cow horn? And so on?

I would love to read more about interesting adaptations for those who live in different climates or who do not use animals. I would like to read some introspection about these things.

natural dye is amazing. there are people where I live experimenting with using sea water as mordant and getting good results, one thing some people do is not worry if the color will last and instead just re dye their clothes or fabric every so many years. That is how it used to be done when everyone used natural dye. I do know that coreopsis tinctora (i probably spelled that wrong) is supposed to be the longest lasting of the yellows and indigo is a long lasting dye and well I could go on and on about natural dye


I don't think the women said much about what the horsetail plant was for but I sort of guessed at the time that it was in place of horns. I was thinking that she was growing it for the silica and mineral content that might be found in horns? I wish I had asked but I think I was so busy with the dye stuff that I didn't have time. another thought I have as far as animal parts goes is that my pet dog has to be shaved or have her hair cut periodically. she is part poodle so she does not shed and I bury her fur under fruit trees I am planting and use it in other ways in my garden. I am not currently vegan but I used to be and probably will be again. I feel like it is ok to keep animals in a vegan system. for instance my local animal shelter always has chickens and ducks in need of homes and sometimes they have sheep and goats and horses. i plan to eventually have some ducks and my main interest is that I will love them but also their manure will be used in my garden and so will there eating of bugs they find. that is not the same as actual animal parts though. i feel like hair and fur and wool that is gotten in ways that is not harmful at all to the creatures it came from, ideally it is gotten by helping the animal like when I trim my dogs fur. when that is used in the garden it maybe can take place of some biodynamic ingredients.

I often wondered the same, how to practice bd in an ahimsa environment

the sheaths are supposed to be animal in origin (part of the magic in the mineral plant animal trine)

conks might be a workable replacement for the horns

vessels made in the style of organite are another idea, using beeswax in place of epoxy

kombucha leather?

fungi are closer to the animal kingdom than the plant kingdom so maybe something with them. what about discarded shells? some of the beaches here are covered in empty snail shells. they are very small but could that work?

My understanding is that biodynamics is what it is, it follows the teachings of Rudolf Steiner. You can do similar preparations in a vegan way if you want, but it won't truly be biodynamic.

Steiner dealt in symbols and also in "vibrations" Biodynamics is a cousn of homeopathy and also of waldorf schooling. Odd ideas, far outside the norm in many cases, and yet excellent success.

Sure it may not be truly bd according to demeter certification but Steiner also said his teachings are a starting point. The ag course was only part 1 of a 3 part course so why would we stop there. And what to speak of the tropics where the typical bd plants are not present. I see no reason why analogues cannot be used while still maintaining the underlying philosophy, we just need to read more carefully between the lines and not be afraid to experiment. Steiner was also a huge advocate of homeopathy so therein lies another path, as others have already uncovered.

In my message above I meant conches, not conks.

No offense, but ya'll are kinda missing the point of biodynamics.

John Jeavon's Grow Biointensive is a similar method, that would seem to follow vegan methods to me, but I dont really know.

I am not big on sticking myself in to catagories. I do what feels right, and that is my method.

Care to elaborate on what the point of biodynamics is?

Well that was poorly worded, I will admit, but my point was the horn, intestine etc... is more then just a vessel to hold the treatments, they are part of the treatments. Yes you can bury manure in anything, imean a horn is not that efficient for that purpose, but a conch shell or clay pot did not come from the farm, or produce the manure. One does not know the life energy of the conch shell or clay pot.
The galaxy, stars, moon ,earth and everything on it is all connected. Biodynamic s is one if the explorations of these connections. A conch shell ir clay pot , may have a connection to your farm, I dont know.

Not there is anything wrong with that.

I am not sure about biodynamics myself, but I am deeply impressed hy many of the people and the results they seem to achieve.

Sorry, I am on my phone, and fear I am coming across as both illiterate and rude. I suggest you read up on all the methods, and use what works best for you!

Good luck!

this sort of brings up the religious aspect of biodynamics and it reminds me of how religions have said who does and does not talk to god. i suppose if you believe that you can talk to your land then you can find a vessel that your land would want and would have the correct energy. that probably is a slightly different philosophy but I like to think that a person living on their own land can talk to it better than Rudolf Steiner can. so maybe it comes down to personal philosophy?

I've been reading transcripts from a couple weeklong courses that Enzo Nastati did in the states in 2013, and in these courses he talks about how to use the herbs by themselves. The transcripts are available from Caren Gontard in Colorado (http://www.ranchodelgallo.info) for 25 bucks each course. There's another Enzo course starting next week.

The basis of the different "sheaths" and their contents (and the season they are fermented) has to do with the "doctrine of signatures." The idea is that there is a resonance between certain forms in the animal, plant, and mineral worlds. For example: the #501 "Horn Silica" is placed in a cow horn, just like cow manure is with the #500 "Horn Manure." But what resonates in each?

In the case of the #500 you have a spiral cow patty, placed in a spiral cow horn, and buried over winter. Winter is the wettest season, and Calcium is the most soluble agricultural element. Any substance (hair/nails/horns) that is continuously growing in an animal must have a relationship to a process always at work in the animal: metabolism. This is to say: the manure of an animal has an intimate relationship with the formation of the horn. Steiner gave indications that horse manure could be used, but it would have to be wrapped in a "sheath" woven of its hair. The preparations are like musical chords. The cow is an exemplary digester, and has sloppy, moist manure; her salivary glands are bigger than her brain! She is a mucous-producing, milk (Calcium) producing organism. Winter wet + cow manure all resonate with each other. The result of the winter fermentation is a "sensitized" manure that is really something entirely new: inasmuch as the cow is good at extracting Calcium from poor forage, the #500 is an inoculant designed to perform the same sort of activity -- for your soil.

In the case of the #501, you take quartz crystal, crust it to a fine flour, and bury it over summer. Quartz is associated with warmth, as is Summer, and the crystallization of proteins in the animal world is similar to the crystallization of minerals in the inorganic world. Here the warmth forces are emphasized. What "gets to work" in the horn is another inoculant: but this one is designed to mobilize Silicon (and with it Boron) to improve frost-resistance, and help the sugar-transport system. If you take a Brix reading (% sugar level) of the leaf of a plant in the MORNING and it has high sugars, you have a problem. If sugars have not moved from the leaves down to the roots, you aren't getting enough exudates! If sugars aren't being given to soil microbes, microbes aren't giving your plants minerals!

There is no reason that these "vessels" could not be imagined in another way. In India, there is common use of a "clay" horn made out of a mould from a real cow horn. If your imagination can think of a proteinaceous vessel that would resonate with quartz silica, I see no reason why that could not be used. It would have to be tested. I doubt that it would be quite as effective as the original #501 -- only because I doubt most of us have as powerful a rational imagination as someone like Rudolf Steiner.

The #502 "Yarrow" preparation is based on the relationship between the Eye (round in the head) and the Bladder (round in the gut). The Eye takes in light ("Yellow is light darkened" - Goethe) and the Bladder expels yellow (urea). That sleepy stuff you sometimes find in your eyes in the morning? That's urea! The reason a stag was chosen is because of its extreme sensitivity and keen eyesight. The Eye-Bladder pole is a specific and directed function. The resulting inoculant #502 can be used to help "relieve" water-logged areas!

If you can imagine like this, you can create vegan preparations like this. But I would first meditate deeply on these relationships. They are not accidental. In addition, I would consider reading Hugo Erbe's New Biodynamic Preparations: http://www.moodie.biz/erbe.html (available as an e-book). Once you feel like you understand the relationships between these animal organs and plant substances, you might find yourself in a position to start imagining new "vegetarian" options.

Consider reading Sacred Agriculture by Dennis Klocek if you are interested in this sort of alchemy. The #505 "Oak Bark" preparation is buried in a skull, and not to be grim. It is also kept in a moist place (again Wet + Calcium) within the brain cavity. The skull is a peculiar formation of calcium that expands itself out and around the watery brain. Most bones find themselves at the center of organisms. The resonance with the Oak Bark (also very high Calcium) is this strong perimeter. If you can think of an "inorganic" source of something similar, you will be hard pressed for such a resonance to lend to this specific formation. It is possible that a weaker effect could be obtained by the use of something a shell like conch or clam or oyster -- oysters cannot move themselves, so they have much less in terms of anima(l) qualities. The question then is: do you want the spiral or the roundness?

Keep in mind: Rudolf Steiner was a vegetarian himself.

I do not know how the #500 would be replaced, unless you find a special herb that behaves like cows -- viscous, mucous, milky, and a dynamic accumulator of Calcium. You might be able to combine this with a conch shell and bury it over winter. You are going to be very hard-pressed to find a substitute for the bacteria in ruminant manure. The only place (other than fungi) you'll find microorganisms that readily break down woody lignin is in ruminant guts/manure!

I am not going to say whether it's a good idea to experiment with this or not. But I would be very careful. If you think this sort of alchemy has a real effect, then so does sloppy alchemy! Be careful, but good luck!

many thanks for that post Stewart, gives much food for thought.

enzo is suggesting the shortfall of a less potent prep can be made up by increasing the quantity applied, frequency applied (how often) and or by improving the style of dynamization. he has some interesting ideas, that expand on biodynamic concepts, and some simplifications for the developing world. like he says in the more extreme third world areas they are hungry so they don't have time to make traditional preps - they need solutions today, ones that are practical, economical, comprehensible.

I just read the part again where Enzo talks about using only the flowers, composted manure, etc.. the way he describes it, with just man and the vegetable matter, we have the fire and water elements (axis of life), which is not so bad because even though the axis of death is also important in life processes, we want to live more in the axis of life.. so we can just put more consciousness into the dynamization process, and thus we as humans can Christianize the flowers rather than the christianizing taking place while within the etheric body of the earth.. that's my paraphrasing it, obviously there is more depth to that thought.. but still we cannot reach the level of traditionally made preps, so we will increase the dose, rate etc instead..

Nice stuff!

Food for thought, I should say.

Something just crossed my path researching more biodynamics. Ehrenfried Pfeiffer indicates that if you do not use legumes in crop rotations AND use #500 Horn Manure AND use #501 Horn Silica on your leguminous crops, there is "no point" in practicing the rest of biodynamics. Pfeiffer also emphasizes that biodynamics is not intended to work, nor will it work, without livestock. I have been thinking further about a "vegan" alternative to #500 Horn Manure and cannot think of anything so diverse. I don't know if you can get around using cow manure. Perhaps you can use the clay "horn" like they do in India, but the two substances would have to be tested side by side. More to think on.

EDIT: Forgot to say why #500 and #501 are absolutely fundamental to the biodynamic method. The reason is this: #500 stimulates excellent root-hair development and mycorrhizal fungi. This is important for a lot of things, but the most fundamental thing is that plant exudates (sugars). #501 stimulates the sugar transport system of a plant.

You can tell if a plant has a Silicon/Boron problem if the Brix level of a plant is higher in the morning than the evening before. For those who don't already know, you can measure the Brix level with a simple refractometer and the juice from part of a plant. This means that sugars have stayed in the top of the plant instead of going to the soil to feed microbes at night! If sugars aren't moving from the leaf to the root, then minerals are moving from the root to the leaf. This can be corrected with foliar sprays in the morning of #501. The use of #500 in conjunction with #501 increases the surface area of root systems dramatically and using that increased surface area, plant exudates are more effective. Plants can only feed sugars to microbes that are in the soil. If you aren't making good compost (or using something like #500), then you are just praying that the sugars are feeding the right microbes and trading the right minerals to the plants. But if there is not the right soil biology, there will not be all the right mineral-sugar "exchanges" that the plant requires.

Again, maybe there is a possible "vegan" version of these. I do not know what they would be.

Homeopathic preps should be considered vegan, they are water after all. They are also economical and practical, because if one does the math it is easy to see that there are nowhere near enough animals available for compost production, if the world were to approach organic and bd methods (using a purely materialistic perspective). Steiner called homeopathy the alchemy of the future.

Four areas I want to take note of;

1) intention
2) quantum field broadcasting
3) The completeness of self & intelegance of nature.
4) Preparations and methods which change the function in plants and soil.

1)
I have found human intent in what they do towards the Plants and land is HUGE! (See messages in water). A test to try is truring rain or well water in alternating vortexs while focusing and speaking words of any dance, life, strength, and life towards the water while seeing in your mind the plant growth you want. Do this with a control group using the same water not talked to or vortexed. You can see the difference.. Intention is one form of life energy

2)
Quantum field broadcasting with intention seems to work and requires only homeopathic amounts of the preparations.

3)
A trial conducted by individuals with aquaponics suggest the urine of one person is capable of providing all the fertility to produce the food for that individual. Another study, shows The dung of mineral deficient cows on healthy ground somehow communicates with life and fungi in the soil and the mineral not in the soil shows up in the plants. Nature is not complete without animals and fungus, so vegan Compost is still full of dead microscopic animals and fungus. So, Never forget you should be part of the equation. Compost your poo in ceramic cones or see shells and let natures Intelligence bring what you need. Each person definitely produces the quantity needed to compensate.

4)
I think the post above nails what the preparations are about.

Forgot to say why #500 and #501 are absolutely fundamental to the biodynamic method. The reason is this: #500 stimulates excellent root-hair development and mycorrhizal fungi. This is important for a lot of things, but the most fundamental thing is that plant exudates (sugars). #501 stimulates the sugar transport system of a plant.

You can tell if a plant has a Silicon/Boron problem if the Brix level of a plant is higher in the morning than the evening before.

More root structure and more sugar exchange fixs the problem. Similar results can be achieved using different methods. Keep live roots in the soil at all times and inoculate with complete life, bacteria and fungus. In understanding the root of the problem you can use choose from many tools to address the problem. Less focus on the voodo dodo and more focus on understanding what the problem is lets us go further and use many methods; i.e. sugar content of leaves in the morning. It is interesting that the solution was found using patterns of alchemy.

So anyway, biodynamics can't truely be without animals but, without animal parts, is possible with mined inputs from plant material taken from other living systems OR with tools and methods to address the problem. Understanding what plants need and how to make that happen, intention, and broadcasting suttle energy patterns you can very much bring bio energetic principals to bear on producing food.

I'm so glad to come across this thread, excellent question, and although I am not vegan, I have been grappling with the desire to not use animal origin vessels in producing the BD preps...

I'll throw my two cents in and in support of what's been said already:

1) Intention is indeed very powerful and may be at the core of BD practice.
2) Locality is important I believe, best when materials are grown on the land where they are to be used, or obtained from sources with good energetics, as close as possible to the land.
3) Steiner wrote general guidelines for agriculture practice, and then said go out and test the principles. There have been lots of adaptations since BD was introduced and continue on... The Oregon BD group routinely places some animal sheathed preps within clay vessels, with no apparent loss of quality from reports. So it seems to me that if the clay was blocking some needed wavelength of energy, it wouldn't be used. Why not test the same preps in just the clay vessels, no animal sheaths, with the conscious intention for the prep to work on the intended function?
4) The quest is finding a similar energetic to the animal origin vessel. Why not experiment with placing the corresponding mineral surrounding a clay pot buried in the ground? For instance if the prep is working on Calcium, place the pot within a larger pot that's filled with Calcium Powder? I'm not sure if this would match the energetics, just thinking outside the box here... In homeopathy, like cures like, eh?
5) The plants tell and show us what's true. If they respond to non-animal vessels, then that's what counts.
6) I found a reference online to Cristina Menicocci Biodynamic Vegan Wines in Italy. They say that they use boxes of larch and birch bark for the animal origin vessels, according to Fladen? I can't find any info on this method though. Anyone have any experience with that?

http://www.barnivore.com/products/6970-cristina-menicocci-stafilo
http://www.veganitaly.com/

Figuring this out will indeed take a lot of trial and error...
Timbo

This brings to mind a question I have always had...are vegans more likely to be pro-life when it comes to human fetuses like they seem to be with bird eggs?
I can't bring myself to harvest my male muscovy ducks, even though they are horribly rough to the females, and I admire vegans' empathy and self-control. However, why would it be unethical for a person to eat eggs from free range birds if you are following biodynamic principles and increasing the habitat for wild animals as well as your livestock while minimizing inputs? If the birds help everything else grow and ultimately increase habitat at a sustainable population (and they do), you would seem to have to remove some offspring or eggs or have overpopulation and denuding of biodiversity and productivity. That or allow predators to do so, which may seem nice for them but it won't be when the neighbor shoots a chicken prowling fox after my habituating it it to seek prey where farmers are. I have a LGD who gets an egg a day, and so do my wife and I. Our plants get great fertilizer and produce more food for us and the birds. The 14 birds live under fruit and maple trees with a 1/4acre to roam, and more if they wanted but don't seem to want to jump the fence. I could not replace their production increases without some animal, and they live a great life so what about this would make someone not want to eat my eggs? If you think humans aren't meant to, consider how pretty much any ape will eat an egg if available. Even humming birds eat insects when raising young. Life needs to consume life to continue, and I feel empathy for the plants I harvest too...I don't mean to judge, just something I've always wondered about veganism as a principal rather than a reaction to modern unethical animal farming.

I understand veganism. I too have a very sensitive conscience towards animals and plants. I eat unfertal eggs instead of animals, because I hate having to kill an animal. If people had to kill their own meat I doubt they would eat nearly as much...

Have you ever fed a vegan? It takes a LOT of food to keep up any amount of physical work. My own experiments show it takes quiet a lot of land to realistically support even one person as vegan, to say nothing of long term helth. You can not maintain fertility without animals unless you greatly greatly increase work; see grow bio intensive. Even bio intensive uses alfalfa meal or soy meal to boost fertility for good production. So its still a cheat using protelium powered agraculture and mining much larger land areas for minerals and nitrogen. It's is so much easier if we recycle our own waste and use animals waste for nitrogen and humas. You get much more nitrogen from poo than Compost and its much faster to make. However, as you pointed out, providing a sheltered environment causes out of control population of animals. In nature everything balances its self. If you raise animals you also must take responsibility to manage life and death or you end up like India and its cows. So to kill an animal is necessary for the health of all animals and the land.

I have burried duck and human manure in the ground at the start of winter covering it with oak bark to prevent water moving through the soil from leaching out nutrients. The result was an amazing humas product that visually enhanced garden growth like nothing I have seen when urine is mixed with water 10:1 and vortexed with a table spoon of 500-humanure. So my conclusion is we are sufficient in our selves, if we remain part of nature instead of separate from it, throwing away our waste and importing mined replacements.

Keeping all inputs from the farm as an organism surely builds the life energy of a farm. It requires, I think, a full multi-specied approach to work well. Deep rooted mineral accumulators and berms ect to hold fertility in the land. ...But I'm rambling on again...

Use roadkill....they are just bags of fertilizer laying all along our roads ripe for the taking...killed accidentally and waiting for someone to give them a proper burial

I was searching for years for a vegan version of the biodynamic farming system, still working with its holisitc and spiritual way of farming (which might not be everybody's cup of tea, but for myself is something which I like). Since a non-violent way of life is important for me, veganism / vegetarianism is the only choice, and made biodynamics complictated. Only recently I found Maria Thun's vegan alternative, based on conclusions after years of research, and I would like ot share it with you: https://goo.gl/Nr7kJi

Thanks for sharing this document!

I noticed the upcoming biodynamic conference has a workshop about Aztec wisdom which includes making a preparation by filling pumpkins with cow dung
One possibility that had crossed my mind is the use of nettle fabric.  Since nettles are so close to being animals, how would sewing a bladder-shaped container made from nettle fabric compare to using a deer bladder?  
I'm vegan but do believe that animals are integral to the farm organism.  I just think that their mere presence is enough, and they're more valuable and powerful when alive.  

Ben Zukisian wrote:This brings to mind a question I have always had...are vegans more likely to be pro-life when it comes to human fetuses like they seem to be with bird eggs?
I can't bring myself to harvest my male muscovy ducks, even though they are horribly rough to the females, and I admire vegans' empathy and self-control. However, why would it be unethical for a person to eat eggs from free range birds if you are following biodynamic principles and increasing the habitat for wild animals as well as your livestock while minimizing inputs?  If the birds help everything else grow and ultimately increase habitat at a sustainable population (and they do), you would seem to have to remove some offspring or eggs or have overpopulation and denuding of biodiversity and productivity. That or allow predators to do so, which may seem nice for them but it won't be when the neighbor shoots a chicken prowling fox after my habituating it it to seek prey where farmers are. I have a LGD who gets an egg a day, and so do my wife and I. Our plants get great fertilizer and produce more food for us and the birds. The 14  birds live under fruit and maple trees with a 1/4acre to roam, and more if they wanted but don't seem to want to jump the fence. I could not replace their production increases without some animal, and they live a great life so what about this would make someone not want to eat my eggs? If you think humans aren't meant to, consider how pretty much any ape will eat an egg if available. Even humming birds eat insects when raising young. Life needs to consume life to continue, and I feel empathy for the plants I harvest too...I don't mean to judge, just something I've always wondered about veganism as a principal rather than a reaction to modern unethical animal farming.

sorry I should know more about keeping birds, but I was wondering under those conditions if it is necessary to feed oyster shell, etc. to them or do they find all they need in their environment? and I would also like to know what you estimate  their population growth rate would be if they only laid eggs to hatch.  I need to research more about survival rate of birdlings.

I feel like pro-life is definitely a big part of being vegan, but would have to ask around to see if that's more likely among vegans.  Though I am vegan, I am always happy when someone who eats eggs decides to raise their own birds, hoping that they will realize what personality birds have and thus stop buying industrial animal products.  I applaud you for treating your birds so kindly:)  the environment you describe sounds like more of a fair trade than in the poultry industry.  I also am looking for new ways to minimize harm to plants as well.   I feel like the main issue with animal products is putting a price on them -- if they were only given freely and were outside the realm of 'business', it seems like there would be less abuse?   I would personally still avoid eating their eggs because I have so many other options -- being human I have more chances to experiment with new levels of kindness than an ape or hummingbird does.  and sometimes I wonder if animal actions mirror human ones and if they will evolve their habits if more humans change their ways.

that's what I like about biodynamics and vegan, both stretching the potentials of human consciousness.

so even if another term must be coined to combine them, I look forward to more experiments in this area.

Vegan Biodynamics

That term strikes me as an oxymoron.
Each word contradicts the other word.

Once you begin modifying and changing the principles of biodynamics, you can no longer call it that.

There are symbiotic relationships that become broken when substitutions are made to materials and procedures.

You can utilize some biodynamic practices on a vegan site, but that does not mean that you can call it biodynamic.
You could however, say that it was biodynamicly inspired.

I know nothing of byodynamics properly.  Except what I read above.  Yet, I give back to the land in a sacred mindful fashion. This feels biodynamic.  I am plant based diet and work very hard and eat very little.  The plants will give the energy without consumption, I find.  Just jumping in.  I am new.  Most interesting thread.  Thanks

Vlad Alba wrote:I'm interested in learning more about vegan biodynamics. Replacing all animal products with non-animal products. Sheaths of, say, ceramic rather than a cow horn. And instead of a bladder, what could be used?
I am really surprised I haven't seen much about this. Does anyone have any leads or examples for vegan biodynamic practices?

By definition there is nor can be "vegan biodynamics" Biodynamics is a registered trademark of Demeter International.
Since they own the rights to the word Biodynamics They are the only ones who can say what is and what is not Biodynamics.
They follow precisely the methods laid out by Rudolf Steiner, therefore in order for someone to use the word Biodynamic or Biodynamics animal products would have to be used.

hello there..
in the 2019 thun calendar, they share the results of several trials they did comparing using the traditional methods of stuffing animal parts vs. using sheaths made from trees. after 2 yrs of trialing, they discovered that the highest yields and best results came from the vegetarian preparations every time. whether using horse or cow manure, the vegetarian tree sheath version outperformed the traditional animal version in every trial. seems using animal intestines are not only unnecessary, but in fact inferior. this is great news for me.. i've had great success using the thun calendar and making teas but would/will not use intestines since i'm a vegan and it goes against my ethics.. so yay! now i can add these preparations to my gardens also and it sounds like it will be all the better that i don't use animal parts.

natalie bumblebee wrote:hello there..
in the 2019 thun calendar, they share the results of several trials they did comparing using the traditional methods of stuffing animal parts vs. using sheaths made from trees. after 2 yrs of trialing, they discovered that the highest yields and best results came from the vegetarian preparations every time. whether using horse or cow manure, the vegetarian tree sheath version outperformed the traditional animal version in every trial. seems using animal intestines are not only unnecessary, but in fact inferior. this is great news for me.. i've had great success using the thun calendar and making teas but would/will not use intestines since i'm a vegan and it goes against my ethics.. so yay! now i can add these preparations to my gardens also and it sounds like it will be all the better that i don't use animal parts.

So as you mentioned they did use the actual Steiner preparation only substituting the container and they only did a two year trial which is rather short as trials go.
Since several of the preparations take a year to ferment and become ready for use in a compost heap, that trial only had two sets of data to base their decision on.

Personally, I don't care if you use Steiner preparations or not, nor do I care how you make them if you should want to use them, what is important is that you build the soil microbiome in your soil so your grown vegetables will have the nutritional values that nature intended them to have and thus build your own body to full strength of immune system, muscle tissue viability and peak neuron activity abilities, along with all the other functions of the human body.

I am still on this trail.  I have found that homeopathic preparations with intention, structured water, and weed tea works perfectly.  Let's face it we don't all have access to cows or horses.  However, most of us have weeds.  When these. Weeds come from our land they contain exactly what the soil needs.  Though I typically apply a small amount of sea salt too.

The weed are gathered, placed in a pickle drum and weighted down before being filled with water.  After a week you have a very smell batch of green manure tea.  This is then pumped into another barrel where an airlift pump circulates and oxygenates the mix until a thick foam head is running over.  The top of the water lift pump vortexes the water through some magnets. This mix of living dynamic "energy" is then poured and soaked into the ground.

Homeopathic mixes of silica, oak bark, and others are used if needed.

Results?  One bean plant outproduced 40 bean plants grown in the same soil without fertilizer. Earth worms fill the soil around the west tea plants.

So why combine all these weird ideas?  Because I tried each separately and could see improvement in trial plants.

I will be building a quantum broadcaster of two types this year to test the results.

Now, here is some suggested info for this thread:




Doing this

Cee Ray wrote:I often wondered the same, how to practice bd in an ahimsa environment

the sheaths are supposed to be animal in origin (part of the magic in the mineral plant animal trine)

conks might be a workable replacement for the horns

vessels made in the style of organite are another idea, using beeswax in place of epoxy

kombucha leather?

Kombucha leather!? I love this idea I had no clue!

And conch shell is a Great idea especially me being by the ocean!

Cee Ray wrote:Sure it may not be truly bd according to demeter certification but Steiner also said his teachings are a starting point. The ag course was only part 1 of a 3 part course so why would we stop there. And what to speak of the tropics where the typical bd plants are not present. I see no reason why analogues cannot be used while still maintaining the underlying philosophy, we just need to read more carefully between the lines and not be afraid to experiment. Steiner was also a huge advocate of homeopathy so therein lies another path, as others have already uncovered.

In my message above I meant conches, not conks.

What were the names of the other 2 parts? I thought it was just the Agricultural Course lectures 1-8 and discussions, given in 1924 in Koberwitz?

Hi Dan
Fascinated to read about your trials.
How did they work out over time?

does anybody know where i could locate the vegan preperations that Maria Thun experimented with and actually brought to the goetheanum?