Plant a Living Fence

Black locust is poisonous for horses. Here at some places in Belgium it is like a weed that can't be stopped. At our place it is kept very small by the deer.

Any suggestions for hedges for keeping wolves out, to protect our animals? In Belgium and the Netherlands they are growing mad... Wolves are allowed and seen everywhere (even in villages and near the city) and the cost for kept animals (and their owners) is considerable. Recently a man, who wanted to chase the wolf from his sheep (in a 'wolfproof' enclosure), is attacked by it.

Ingrid Hens wrote:Any suggestions for hedges for keeping wolves out, to protect our animals? In Belgium and the Netherlands they are growing mad... Wolves are allowed and seen everywhere (even in villages and near the city) and the cost for kept animals (and their owners) is considerable. Recently a man, who wanted to chase the wolf from his sheep (in a 'wolfproof' enclosure), is attacked by it.

Here in New York state in the US, wolves were extirpated long ago but coyotes have grown in size and changed to social behavior to fill their ecological niche. They do prey upon farm animals here as well. The solution most farmers use are livestock guardian dogs. There are a number of breeds but the most popular here are Great Pyrenees with Anatolian Shepherds and crosses between these two coming up second. One needs to realize that these dogs are highly territorial and not friendly with strangers but they are kept with the flocks and guard them well. I know one farmer who has Great Pyrenees which have not only chased off but killed coyotes entering the field in packs. I would recommend reading good sources of information to learn about the temperament and proper raising and training of these dogs if you consider getting one or two.

Freyda, very good cautions on use of potentially invasive plants.  For example, you live in Chemung County, NY.  In New York State, Black Locust is a regulated plant considered invasive.  They have become issues in many eastern US states and even in the native state of Indiana they have become a problem due to their movement into prairie and savanna areas.  Part of the issue is the fact they can spread clonally and they modify soil chemistry which may enhance other invasive plants while degrading native plant varieties.  In some areas, Autumn Orange is considered invasive as is multifloral rose.  Please check local regulations.  While they may provide good results in a local and controlled environment, they will escape (note positive statement, it was meant) and then the damage is just beginning.  Even hazelnuts can increase potential damage to some other members of the family.  For example, American and beaked hazelnuts harbor Eastern Hazelnut blight which do not bother them, but will damage and even kill European hazelnut family members if nearby.  I realize this is sort of a reverse invasive situation, but you get the idea.  Things are not always as straightforward as one might hope.

Now, here is a subject that will likely create some discussion.  Has anyone found research indicating that use of whole used tires as stabilization structures for soil berms is harmful to the environment?  I have engaged in some scanning to find any studies and have found none.  There are plenty of studies on the degradation and action of ground or chipped tires in soil, but none on how they might react to being piled in a berm with no exposure to direct sunlight.  It would seem, from looking at old tires, that degradation of buried tires is minimal.  That would indicate they might allow construction of a steeper berm.  This would mimic the old stone walls found throughout the Northeast of the U.S.  Shrubs or small trees could be planted on top to increase resistance to animals, but the use of tires, if staked, to reinforce those walls would make such construction much easier and remove them from the piles where they can catch fire or create concentrated toxic runoff.  It could provide for a smaller footprint to go along with that.  I have made ground stabilizing mats from tires bolted together to hold gravel for field roadways across temporary runs.  This reduces erosion and lessens the potential for development of gullys.  Once buried, the tires are kept from the sun and degradation, if any is slowed considerably.

Now to the open discussion that is a hallmark of permies.  What say you?

I've been installing a UK-style hedgerow in Southwestern Ontario at our farm over the past 3 years. It's quite long, serving as the inside perimeter of about 4 acres of field. I will not go into detail about why and how much I love hedgerows, but based on how many hours I've put into (attempting!) to create one, it should be evident!

I worked with a local guy (Jim Jones) out of Guelph, who does consulting on hedgerows. He studies them for a living, and I got some great ideas from him.

I planted two staggered rows, with each row having about 16" between trees. I chose 60% thorny species, and 40% other types. I spread these species out in the staggered pattern, but in retrospect, I think this only really matters for the thorney species, to make sure you get thorny coverage (which you really only need for animals).

For the thorny species, I chose a mix of osage orange and honey locust. Although I couldn't find any confirmed information on honey locust used this way, I've seen how it responds to wounds, and am fairly sure it will respond in the desired way. I would have used more osage orange, but had trouble with seed germination and supply, and funding (it's not currently native to my region, though fossil evidence shows it once was).

I would suggest against using black locust in this context, unless you are prepared for the suckers. Black locust sends up suckers very very far from the base of the tree, so unless you have a plan for that... I love them in many other contexts.

For the other trees, I used chestnuts, hazels, mulberries, and serviceberries (aka juneberries/saskatoon berries). I also used nannyberries and red ozier dogwood, which are for berries and basket material.

Lessons, some learned the hard way:

1. plant over serveral years, if possible, both spring and fall. Trees will die, and by planting at a bunch of times, you won't lose all of them if there is a problem with drought or too much water.

2. Use tree guards on every tree, as soon as planted. I cut down white spiral ones to the size of the tree.

3. Try to plant trees already above tall grass level. This isn't always possible, but weeding a hedgerow to protect the trees is very time consuming work. For reasons of labour saving, I mostly planted whatever-size stock I got, rather than planting them in the garden, letting them grow, then digging and planting them later. Planting them twice is also a huge amount of work, and I regretted the ones I did that with. Especially as they were only a little bit bigger from spring to fall.

4. At the time of establishment, if you can have a lot of mulch, such as rolling out large round bales of spoiled hay, that can help. Remulching by hand at my scale hasn't been possible.

5. Some areas will just be harder than others to get trees established. Is it too wet for your desired species? Is a really tough groundcover already established in this area? Try to listen, by looking at what else is growing nearby, and consider transplanting some of those, or getting more of the same species for that section of the hedge.

It will be several years before it is ready to be laid for the first time. I'm still planting it! About 200 honey locust going in this fall.

With annual pruning at the top and sides (look into detail on this, as technique has a pretty big impact), it should only be about once per generation that it has to be relaid.

Although I imagine you are well underway with this project, being as mine has been a truly multi-year project, I thought I would share some details.

Good luck!

Giddy aunt!! Third post in 2 days!

Well, it’s too hot to be active at the moment so I’m catching up with old and very old mail.

Came across this thread which reminded me that my neighbours( there’s no “f”in neighbours, growl)
have been shredding the/my hedge for nearly twenty years.
After a visit to the police last year, I was given a modest bit of compensation, not covering whole loss, cost of plants, planting(hand tools only) watering, home made mulch.
Ever optimistic, planted again, a thicket in the making, lots of fruit and thorny bushes and hedge roses.
I have already mentioned the following loss on another thread. It’s a deep wound.
The protective steel drum, the palettes, steel posts and coloured ribbon cannot easily be found. Shredded to smithereens. In previous years, wooden posts shredded.

There are not enough expletives, howls, to express the loss.

Right, it’s supposed to ease the pain, sharing etc.
In the meantime, plotting and scheming, metal sheep netting, planks with serious nails, any useful suggestions???

Peace loving, don’t f@@@ with me, please, sending out deep breathing and blessings
M-H