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Ryan Harp

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Dan Grubbs wrote:

Hope everyone can come up to our place (Hebron Acres) this spring to have a walk around, talk ideas and maybe break bread together.

Sounds like you've got a lot to look forward to, aka work. I've watched and subscribed to your YouTube and hope to see this project in person. I'd be happy to lend a hand on any labor for a morning or afternoon too.

Ryan Harp

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Dan Grubbs

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Ryan - I very much appreciate the offer to help. I think I'm going to have to ask for some help this spring when my 60 trees and bushes come in April as well as more than 200 comfrey starts. I'll keep everyone updated here and anyone that wants to help, is very welcome to pitch in. If we do end up with a small group of people to do planting, we'll plan a picnic meal together. I will also make an effort to make more videos of our projects at Hebron Acres.

Cheers,
Dan

81six - seven2nine - fourfour 2 2

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Ryan Harp

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Hi Hildegard!

Also, anybody else buy the permaculture playing cards Paul is selling? I just got mine in the mail today and they are pretty spiff.

Ryan Harp

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Dan Grubbs

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Sounds like a card game or two at the spring planting event at Hebron Acres this April. Ryan's bringing the cards! Haahahahahaa

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Jason Melton

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I am new here. I live near Kidder, about thirty miles East from St. Joseph. I have animals and I am hoping to get things going this spring with a garden. I am hoping to get some free classes going on my farm after I get some things built. So I will keep checking back on this thread and hope to share more information.

Ryan Harp

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Welcome Jason! How did you stumble onto permies?

Same question for everyone...?

For me, when attempting my third year of gardening last year, in the planning stages I came across Geoff Lawton, Jack Spirko and of course, Paul Wheaton videos on YouTube. I freakin love YouTube. Anyway, it was all downhill from there.

Ryan Harp

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Dan Grubbs

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Welcome Jason to this infectious world.

You can't be too far from our farm in Holt. Hope we can cross paths soon face to face. You mentioned you had animals, what are you running? Give us all a detailed description of what you're doing and what your place is like.

See ya,
Dan

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Ryan Harp

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My wife and I have started a podcast/blog. I just wanted to share with my local permies.

www.projectsaplenty.com

Ryan Harp

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Paul Porter

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posted 10 years ago

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Anyone have thoughts on which NE Kansas county authority is easier to work with (building permits, etc.)? I will be buying land in the area in the coming months and am curious if others have had experiences good or bad. Judging strictly from how their respective web sites read, Leavenworth Co. seems to be the easiest with their lack of building codes. I'm looking at the KS counties surrounding KC (Leavenworth, Jefferson, Douglas, Franklin, Miami). I currently live in KC MO.

Thanks!
Paul

Dan Grubbs

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Hi Paul
Not sure why you've excluded Missouri counties from your search. I'll toss out a couple of thoughts anyway. Have you considered Clinton or Holt counties in Missouri? Less restrictive codes and still easy interstate access. Platte and Clay counties are likely to be too restrictive and expensive as they are getting close to the metro area. My experience in Clay County is they have very strict codes about residential structures on land ... seems they don't want people living in non-permanent structures and structures that aren't what most subdivision residents consider a house. This part saddens me a bit, but I was able to buy the kind of land I wanted at the price I wanted, so I'm going to happily live with the restrictions on what buildings I put on our farm. Besides, our farm is within easy commute to my day job in downtown Kansas City.

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R Scott

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I am going to guess you either have a job in the south KC area (KCK, OP, etc.) and want to avoid commuting THROUGH the city. Plus maybe not deal with inter-state state tax returns (really a PITA here in KC). I understand too well.

Unfortunately, county zoning has spread south and west--and they chose Miami county as the model

Very restrictive and slanted to rich horse farms.

What we did, after the initial disappointment and sticker shock of land in jo and mi counties, was to make a drive-time map. I don't remember which map tool had it, but it would draw drive time "rings" from an address. Punched in work and 30, 45, 60 minutes and got a set of drawings that looked like oak leaves, with the interstates as the main veins. I ended up way farther mile-wise, but faster (and much less stressful) drive time.

Unfortunately, my county added zoning as we were buying.

And changed it 3-4 times while we were building

"You must be the change you want to see in the world." "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." --Mahatma Gandhi
"Preach the Gospel always, and if necessary, use words." --Francis of Assisi.
"Family farms work when the whole family works the farm." -- Adam Klaus

Paul Porter

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Thanks to you both for your input. R Scott nailed it. Nothing against MO, if fact many things would be easier there, but proximity to work and family in Olathe are two factors. Schools are another. There's also favorable tax laws for self-employment in KS (at the moment). I did find a 'how far can I drive' web app here which gave me some MO locations to consider. Thanks again. Close on my city house in a month...

Ryan Harp

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Just fond out today that Johnson County, Missouri has no Zoning. http://www.jococourthouse.com/zoning.htm

At this time, there is no planning and zoning regulations, building codes or occupancy
certificates in Johnson County, Missouri for the unincorporated areas, unless the property
is located in the Whiteman Air Force Base Zoning Area. Other state and federal
regulations will apply to building in flood plains, or for construction of waste disposal
systems. If building in an incorporated city limits, city zoning ordinances may apply.

Ryan Harp

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Jason Melton

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Dan Grubbs wrote:Welcome Jason to this infectious world.

You can't be too far from our farm in Holt. Hope we can cross paths soon face to face. You mentioned you had animals, what are you running? Give us all a detailed description of what you're doing and what your place is like.

See ya,
Dan

I have a boar...waiting to get a couple of sows when I am ready. I have two goats, both bred and waiting for kids this spring. I have 6 mares, three pregnant and a stud. I have chickens, guinea hens, a turkey and some ducks. I also have some rabbits.

I am trying to get my farm self sustaining. I built a house in a three sided barn. It is almost too big and I find it harder to heat up in this bitter cold. I want to plant a big garden and start a 'you pick it'. Though it would be nice to have all of the money that others have, I find there are plenty of people out there who have little money like me. So I want to have affordable fruits and vegetables. I grew up in the big big city and now I have a hard time going back. I love the quiet of the country.

Jason Melton

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Ryan Harp wrote:Welcome Jason! How did you stumble onto permies?

Same question for everyone...?

For me, when attempting my third year of gardening last year, in the planning stages I came across Geoff Lawton, Jack Spirko and of course, Paul Wheaton videos on YouTube. I freakin love YouTube. Anyway, it was all downhill from there.

I also watched Paul Wheaton and found it through there. I agree with loving YouTube and the instructional videos. I am excited to get this winter over and start working hard. I wish we had a group who could help one another with farm projects. "Many hands make light work" or however the saying goes...I have found that if I try to help my brother or sister instead of trying to beat them at winning, we both win and succeed further than alone.

Dan Grubbs

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I'd love to help out Jason and I wager other KC area folks would too. Where are you located and do you have a project or two I can come help with right away?
I currently live on liberty and my acreage is in Holt.

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Ryan Harp

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I'm eager to get my hands dirty and to help others out with their projects. I need the experience and hope to build some strong relationships in this arena as well.

Ryan Harp

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Bill J Price

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Well here I am in the Midwest - KC Forum. Surprised I have not done this before.

We have 9.2 acres of land in LVCO that we will be turning into a sustainable living homestead. I am a 2011 graduate of the Kansas Permaculture Institute PDC lead by Steve Moring. I am designing about 3.5 acres of food forest. I have 3 swales in totaling about 1,600 linear feet in total length. They still need some tuning though. We planted apple trees last year and will be planting a variety of trees this spring. I am starting a couple of tree lines on contour that will become part of a small silvopasture for future rotational grazing. If everything continues to work out we hope to begin building our home on the farm this summer.

I have been thinking of starting a KC Area Permies Map. A way to know where we are all at. Yeah, just what I need, another project.

Ryan Harp

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Glad to see you here Bill! Your post reminded me to check back with the NWKC Permaculture Facebook page. A map is a great idea!

Link to NWKC FB if anyone here is interested: https://www.facebook.com/kcnwmopermaculture

Ryan Harp

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Dan Grubbs

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Good to see you here, Bill. I think our KC-area network is growing!

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Dan Grubbs

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Ohhh, forgot to mention. I just learned yesterday that 10 acres of Clay Co. property is for sale up near Holt, Mo. It's actually about 300 feet from my property. In my humble opinion, it's a bit overpriced at the moment. I wonder if they are open to negotiation? Anway, I think a permie with a bit of knowledge of earthworks would have a hayday. Good neighbors and hardtop road access just 1 minute from the I-35 exit. It's all in pasture except for some brush in a treed area that is a draw between two hills (I'd put a pond there).

I've attached the sign of the realtor's information. I don't suspect the agent has any clue about how to price this land, so with a bit of research I feel the price will come down.

I have no financial interest in the sale of this property. I just thought I'd share and hoped that I might have another permie as a neighbor.

Holt-property.jpeg

Holt-farm.jpg

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Ryan Harp

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Hey Dan and KC permies,

Dan's post brings up something I've been pondering for a while now. I like the idea of increasing the density of permaculture in a region/area but if there were a choice, what kind of range would be most beneficial? Clearly wherever and however you can get started healing the land and practicing permaculture techniques the better, but if you are like me, you also have a future plan for a larger property like Dan has posted, and like many of you already have. So again, if there were a choice when it comes time to buy, and all else were equal (property types and assets), what has more of an impact?

A.) The property that is nearest to a growing or established permaculture farm that could benefit from the already budding ecology and many other shared benefits.

Or

B.) The property that would be breaking new ground and exposing a new territory to Permaculture. I always think about movies like "Outbreak" where you see the map of the country with expanding red dots where the virus is growing.

Ryan Harp

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R Scott

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C) It is the standard permaculture answer--IT DEPENDS!

Buying near an established farm (growing the dot) has definite advantages if you can work together--share equipment, work parties, shared marketing and shipping of product, just bounce ideas off each other.

But starting a new dot has definite appeal to the pioneering spirit. You are the beacon. Has more potential for impact, good or bad. Not for the faint of spirit.

Dan Grubbs

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That’s a really interesting thought, Ryan. For some reason, I never thought about “permie density” before. But, I suspect like all things the answer is “it depends.”

So what are the factors to inoculating our part of northwest Missouri with permaculture? Here are just a few of my arguments for having a number of fellow permies not far from me. I see R Scott beat me to the punch on some of this, but here goes.

1. It would provide a local resource where we would share our observations and what we’re getting in feedback from our efforts. Feedback is critical and understanding the feedback my neighbor was getting added to mine would be doubly so. More brain power applied to development of solutions and applications of practices. Simply said, what works and what doesn’t work can be shared to greater understanding and application.
2. There can be shared labor and resources when the need arises. I already rely on my neighbors around me for support and I help them in turn. I think there’s a bit more openness to asking for help for a permie application with another permie than asking a died-in-the-wool row crop farmer to help you plant some trees in the middle of the pasture! One doesn’t go to the well too often and be considered a good neighbor, but I think with fellow permies, one can go to the “help” well a bit more often. However, my current neighbors couldn’t be more helpful and I really appreciate them.
3. Hyperlocalized trade and barter could increase with several permies that lived within a few miles of each other. Knowing that someone else was producing something that I didn’t have to produce but could trade or barter for is greater efficiency.

The effect:
One permie location - "you know, that weird couple down the road growing strange things and raising goats"
Several permies in close proximity - "hey, they got something going on and I think I actually can learn a few things from those folks"

I'm just throwing thoughts out there.

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Ryan Harp

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I suspected I'd get the "It depends" line, and how true it is. Thanks for the solid input R Scott and Dan! I'm sold on the "hyperlocalized" idea. Being apart of "something going on" and a shared value community is the goal. Breaking in new territory would probably be more fitting to an experienced permaculturalist with a good reputation and some projects under their belt.

PERMADENSITY!

But first things first... It's almost spring and I've got 14 tomato varieties under lights! Also, I'm looking for a good fruit tree provider in the area. Any recommendations?

Ryan Harp

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R Scott

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Dan Grubbs wrote:
Several permies in close proximity - "hey, they got something going on and I think I actually can learn a few things from those folks"

It is a fine line between that and becoming a "commune" in the eyes of the neighbors.

Dan Grubbs

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I cracked up out loud when I read your post, R Scott. I can certainly see it if permies owned like 3-4 contiguous properites.

Creative folks who are also creative with language: hyperlocalized and permadensity. I love it!

My source for fruit trees so far has been the state nursury with their reforestation program. Cheap bear root trees. The commercial nurseries up here in the Northland are just too expensive, and I've not found a good source that I trust yet. I did find a seed supplier for lepedeza, however, so I'm happy about that.

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Dan Grubbs

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New Topic

Anyone in the area interested in planning an event for International Permaculture Day, May 4? Might be fun to get together and share what we're all doing and exchange ideas and knowledge as well as make some new friends.

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Ryan Harp

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Great idea Dan! Do you think you'll have some planting to do by then? May the 4th be with you!

Ryan Harp

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Dan Grubbs

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Hey Ryan and all:

Hope the spring is treating you well so far. By May 4 I should have everything I'm going to plant already in the ground. I'm planting my stand of sericea lespedeza this weekend and the state nursury will be delivering my bareroot trees in April. I'm pretty set on planting them the Saturday/Sunday after they arrive. Now, if the nursury doesn't deliver them until that last week of April, then I will be planting May 3/4. I certainly would welcome any help I can get, but I didn't want to assume labor support under the guise of an event we plan. But, I'm very happy to host something on my place on May 4 after Noon (I teach at my church on Sunday mornings).

I've completed the third of my five planned swales. This new one will be one of the swales I'm planting on.

I have talked with Dave Hawkins who has just returned from some extensive training on mob grazing and related things and he's agreed to share his learnings at a gathering. Maybe that's what we plan? I'm way open to any other ideas.

The Darth Vader topiary was is hilarious!

How about it everyone?

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Ryan Harp

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Sounds good to me Dan, I'm looking forward to seeing the progress in person and meeting everyone. I'll put it on the calendar.

I'll gladly offer up my home (suburban permaculture) for the next meet up if we decide that works.

Ryan Harp

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Ryan Harp

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Any other KC Permies get signed up as one of the 1000 PermaEthos Founders? I'm excited to finally get a PDC under my belt! http://permaethos.com/

Ryan Harp

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Dan Grubbs

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Congrats on the PDC, Ryan.

I saw 100 acres of pasture land for sale in Clinton and it made me think of you and what you would do with it. It is selling for $2,800 an acre.

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Brad Doughty

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I live just south of Platte City, I am a budding permie just now beginning preps for my 1/4 acre food forest. I will probably plant in spring of 2015. Willing to here any and all advice. It would be nice to get together once in a while with other local permaculture advocates. Thanks!

Ryan Harp

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@Dan - Wow, 100 acres would be quite the endeavor. My first move would be to call you out to brainstorm!

@Brad, Welcome! I'm on the same size land and also am planning for a big 2015 food forest plant. Maybe we can team up on some tree work. I think Dan from this thread got his trees from the the Missouri Department of Conservation. I remember there is a minimum order (10 or so trees per type I think) so maybe a group of us with smaller plots could work out a group buy.

http://extra.mdc.mo.gov/cgi-bin/mdcdevpub/apps/seedlings/search.cgi?record=all

Ryan Harp

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Dan Grubbs

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@ Ryan and Brad

I'd be happy to pitch in on any planting endeavors on any of our properties (maybe even a bit of guerilla planting, too!!). I did get all my trees from the MDC. The average price for bare-root trees works out to about $1.00 each. I do plan on buying trees each year to continue to add to our orchard, swales and Zone 1 area. I've had about a 95% success rate for the trees taking hold and coming out of dormancy and leafing out and surviving well. These were spring plantings.

I was also at a farm store this weekend and places are already starting to slash prices on their trees and bushes. The one particular farm store I was at in Kearney, Mo., had their fruit and deciduous trees marked down 25%. The fruit trees were originally about $25.00 and look pretty healthy. I'm gonna wait a couple of weeks and see if they do another markdown and then grab a couple of their healthy stone fruit varieties and an apple ... depending on the price.

This weekend I spent a few hours making shades for my pawpaw trees that I've planted orchard style rather than in an understory. The shades are sort of a knocked together sort of thing, so we'll see if they work.

Love to meet all KC-area permies soon.

Dan

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Marie Gifford

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Hi everyone! I just found out about this forum from Ryan. I am signed up for the PermaEthos PDC and he posted about this forum there. Good to see some people in the area!
I am south KC, southwest of La Cygne, Kansas. We have 40 acres that I raise Icelandic sheep along with some Shetland sheep, Angora goats, and 5 horses (and some chickens, cats and dogs.

). I have been researching rotational grazing for several years now and permaculture is the logical 'next step'.

I am also currently taking Geoff Lawton's OPDC, this it the first 'formal' training I have had in permaculture other than grazing seminars. I feel overwhelmed with the amount of information out there. It seems that every new thing I learn leads me to ten more things I want to research.

I look forward to getting to know you all and would love to help with projects to get some hands on experience.

Dan Grubbs

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Welcome, Marie. Love to hear about your experiences from the PermaEthos PDC and what you feel the differences are between that and Lawton's online course.

My little 10-acre farm is in Holt, Mo., so I'm up the other direction from you. Keep us posted on your projects and what not.

Dan

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R Scott

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WELCOME, Marie.

Greg Lamp

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Hi all, I found this forum not to long ago and thought it would be worth it to join up.

We have a 40 acre farm between Lawson and Polo MO (about 45 minutes NE of the city). We have beef cattle, a milk cow, heritage hogs (Large Black, Red Wattle and Mulefoot), all kinds of birds, we try to raise most of our food and have a Back To Eden\Ruth Stout inspired garden. This will be our fifth summer living on the farm and we are continually excited about what God will provide and encuraged by what He has provided!

We built a 12X24 green house last fall and hope to add a rocket mass heater this fall so we can user it all winter.

Dan, I have read your posts and looked at your blog and we would love to see what you are doing over in Holt sometime.

Anyway that gives you a little info on our little farm, if you want more check out facebook.com/LampFarm.

I am going to test your electrical conductivity with this tiny ad:

turnkey permaculture paradise for zero monies

https://permies.com/t/267198/turnkey-permaculture-paradise-monies