Shasta County... Help create mini Krameterhoff (spelling?)

I've been unsuccessful at posting on here today so short and simple it is. Looking for help building a permaculture farm in a zone 7b mountainy (foothills) type area. Ponds, swales, hugelkultur, terraces etc... Space on property for building small homes. Hope this works asmorse211@gmail.com for LOTS more details. Community oriented. Food, family, music, dogs, etc all welcome. I will try posting pics. I'm working from a smartphone...

First pond, first rain

Seeds for winter on order. I'm going to try a few of the beans under plastic over winter, but really gonna get em going with "three sisters" next year.

Seeds. Plus more that did not fit in the photo.

I want to bump this because I REALLY could use some wwoofers, helpers, partners, similarly interested visitors, etc... Any help would help. I feel like Shasta county is either a dead zone for permaculture or there's an aire of exclusivity or something. There are a lot of tweakers and irresponsible pot growers in the area so I can understand being cautious, but I have been struggling to meet anyone into permaculture. I have family and friends in the area, but they just think it's "cool what you're doing" at best. They have their own lives and I've yet to produce a great case for permaculture with what I've been able to accomplish as one man with no tractor or any type of machinery other than a pickup truck.

I have a pad for an RV or trailer and a few gardens started, a little rain cathment and a TON of work to do. Anyone looking to be a part please don't be shy and contact me.

A photo or two...

The fishing is unbelievable up around here if you are into that. I'm a bit of a bass hound, but all freshwater species thrive in the lakes and streams here. I plan on raising spotted bass like this one in my ponds... If I can get help digging them (hint!)

Also don't be alarmed by the skull shirt. I'm an old school punk rocker from way back, but I've put away the mosh pit for dirty fingernails and rooster alarm clocks. That and I don't get rid of clothes until they are but strings.

Ok last bump... Better be a good one. Tomorrow is my 111th birthday... No that's Bilbo. Tomorrow is my 32nd birthday! My only wish is a wwoofer or two. And an hour of rain every afternoon all summer... Worth a shot?

Can anyone move this into the wwoofers forum or somewhere it may get some more traffic? I'm thinking posting it in cascadia is one explanation for the lack of response...

My partner and I live about 15 miles west of Red Bluff. Yes this area is shy on permaculture-minded people. There used to be a permaculture group in Redding....I even went to a couple of their meetings, but it seems to have disbanded. There were 8-10 people at the two meetings I went to (2012-13 maybe?) so there are some out there. Look up Wolfgang Rougle.....I think she goes to the farmer's markets. she's pretty cool. There is a BIG group in and around Chico with monthly meetings, etc....there's even a PDC happening down there. But that's far away from me and even further from you!
I've been into permaculture for 25 plus years and was an apprentice teacher at several PDC's in GA and FL before coming here about 5 years ago. But I'm pretty busy with my own 1 1/2 acre site......

Thank you! Good to know there is someone... My email is in this thread previously. Feel free to message me. I would love to work out some kind of possible trade like a day of work for a consultation? Even a nudge in the right direction from someone more educated such as yourself would be a huge help. I feel like I have such a mixed bag of information from the internet and nothing that pertains to this site specifically. Thanks for the reply.

Went ahead and added this to the WWOOFing forum, hopefully you get a few more bites.

I'm up in Mount Shasta doing my thing. It would be great if we could get 5-10 people in the rough area that could get together a few times a year to do some perma-blitz style work but so far I've counted less than a handful of active members here that are from the real NorCal area...

big wave from northern siskiyou county!

i will keep an ear out if i hear of someone looking for a situation...

Thank you Michael and Leila!

Michael, I am so inspired by your thread about ponds with pigs! I could tell it was a high elevation in the West, but never guessed it was right here in the county! In fact that thread was mentioned on a YouTube video about gleaning with pigs. You and permies.com got some good press there...

Have you run across Luna Verde permaculture? Apparently they are a permaculture farm in the Mt Shasta area. I found some old stuff that is still floating around the internet and sent an email to the contact provided, but have yet to hear back. I would love to come visit and see what you have going on one of these days.

Hey Andrew. Glad the pond and pigs was inspiring, I'm planning to use 7 more pigs this year to make another pond so there should be some good updates to the pond thread this summer. Which youtube video was the mention in, I haven't seen any that I can recall...

I came across Luna Verde on facebook but it looks they haven't been doing much for a couple of years, or at least not updating about it if they have been busy. There's a group out in Big Bend that looks like they're pretty deep into permaculture but I haven't had a chance to contact them or visit in any way.

I'm sure we could figure out some time that you could swing by that I would definitely be here. I'm not home a lot because I run a tree service up here. If you do visit prepare to be under-whelmed - there's a lot more projects that need to be done than there are examples of great finished permaculture projects. Even the pond is still a work in progress.

That's exactly how my property is. BTW I've mostly worked as a carpenter, but know my way around a chainsaw, ropes and rigging, etc. PM me if you are ever looking for seasonal labor...

I'm going to paste on an email I just got that goes right along with a similar thread of yours that I just posted to. Looks like there is a Redding group that wants to do perma-blitz and potentially co-op type stuff.

Hi Andrew,



I just read your posts on Permies.com but can’t post a reply there yet as I just signed up for an account and it hasn’t been activated yet. I’m new to permaculture but am voraciously learning as much as I can about it.



There is a Permablitz Collective on Redding Meetups that has 103 members. It was started a year ago in February. You have to sign up and attend 3 group work sessions, then you are eligible to have group members come to your place for a work day (after having your project for the day approved by a PDC). It sounds like you are looking for someone to work with you full time but it would be a good resource to connect with others who are interested in permaculture. I haven’t been to a meeting, but my neighbors have gone to a couple and said it’s a nice group of people. It’s organized by a woman named Laurie. She is the only member with a PDC (so far). The website is: www. meetup.com/Redding-Permablitz-Collective/



Hope this helps.



Carol

Hey,
I sent you an email yesterday.

I'm in LA but I was headed towards the Mt Shasta area and specifically looking for a place to pitch a tent, work the garden and grow some weed. If you're 420 friendly then I can probably be on a train in a day or 2, but I might hang out in LA til after 4/20 just for the weed deals.

I grew up on a farm and have experience with cows, rabbits and chickens. I've also worked in several garden centers, commercial nurseries and orchards.

I’m an author, Reiki Master and meditation teacher.

I was in the Army and Navy, been certified as an EMT, Rescue Diver, Advanced First Aid Instructor, CPR Instructor, Firearms Instructor, Martial Arts Instructor, Certified Personal Trainer and Certified Interpretive Guide.

I’ve also been professionally trained in Wilderness Survival, Mountain Search and Rescue, Wildland Fire Suppression, Outdoor Leadership, Video Production, Video Editing, Script Writing, Magazine Writing, Grant Writing and Herbology.

Let me know the details of what you're looking for.

Thanks,
Greg

Thank you for your reply, Greg. I've written you privately explaining more in detail, but just to put it out there, I wanted to express that I am not looking to have a cannabis grow operation here at the farm. While I don't judge people's personal choices, there are many reasons why a situation like that would not work out.

I also wanted to make a correction that this zone is more like 8b-9a. I have looked at many more maps since the OP and realized this.

Howdy Mr. Morse,

My name is Brian and my partner Linda and I have a natural goat dairy across the border in southern oregon - the Klamath Falls area. We've been concentrating on the animal aspect of responsible farming (POOP!) and are just getting our feet wet in hugelkultur beds and considering swales if we can swing a solar well. We're in high desert where it's extremely dry but it's ideal goat country and workable cattle country. Just letting you know you have some neighbors up here. Wishing you success from 4300 feet!

Brian

Thank you Brian and Linda! What type of goats do you work with? I know as a whole goats are suited to hot, dry mountain environments like the Middle East. I'm looking to have two dairy does with a donkey or a gang of Guinea Hens to protect them and a buck with a couple wethers for friends. That way meat and dairy for just me (and occasionally friends and family in the area) will be no problem. I need to find a local 4H or FFA student that I can hire to care for my animals after the first year in case I go backpacking or to a pdc or any reason I might want to leave over night.

I also need to have more water. I'm going to bite the bullet and install a 2,500 gallon tank and have a local construction/excavator service come bring 3,000 gallons. The extra 500 will go partially in my 300 gal tank and the other 200 can go to the pond I've been working on. This will get me through the year and give me enough storage capacity to always get through the dry seasons. Check out my hand dug spot for the tank... Looks like a perfect terrace for growing and slowing rain. I'll have to do these all over the property.

Andrew Morse wrote:Thank you Brian and Linda! What type of goats do you work with? I know as a whole goats are suited to hot, dry mountain environments like the Middle East. I'm looking to have two dairy does with a donkey or a gang of Guinea Hens to protect them and a buck with a couple wethers for friends. That way meat and dairy for just me (and occasionally friends and family in the area) will be no problem. I need to find a local 4H or FFA student that I can hire to care for my animals after the first year in case I go backpacking or to a pdc or any reason I might want to leave over night.

We have Nubians with a bit of Alpine and we call the crosses Albians. FYI: a good doe will produce a gallon of milk a day when it freshens. That's 7 gallons per week. You may find your ideal solution is to find a local goat dairy and exchange for milk from them so that you can take off when you choose. You can raise the boys(wethers) for meat from your local dairy. Or you can raise meat goats: Boer or Kiko. In general, an animal farm will tend to tie you down. It's a decision we had to make - for us it's every day, 365 days a year. We provide milk for 42 families in Klamath Falls.

Andrew Morse wrote:I also need to have more water. I'm going to bite the bullet and install a 2,500 gallon tank and have a local construction/excavator service come bring 3,000 gallons. The extra 500 will go partially in my 300 gal tank and the other 200 can go to the pond I've been working on. This will get me through the year and give me enough storage capacity to always get through the dry seasons. Check out my hand dug spot for the tank... Looks like a perfect terrace for growing and slowing rain. I'll have to do these all over the property.

We were looking at a similar issue and Linda had the brilliant idea to set up a used above-ground swimming pool instead of spending so much for a tank. We haven't got there in our plan to buy and install but we have checked craigslist and found pools for sale at a very reasonable price. They hold a lot of water for the price.

Do you have any experience with Nigerian dwarf goats? I've read they are typically 1/2 - 3/4 gallon per day and a 7-10% butterfat content. I myself drank 1/2 gallon of cows milk per day when I was about 10-22. I would still drink as much now, but I'm concerned about the quality of you average cow milk from the store even if the carton says organic. My cousin, his wife and their two daughters consume as much raw organic foods as possible and have had a difficult time finding raw goat milk. My thought was to give excess milk to them as well as make cheeses in exchange for feeding animals occasionally while I'm away in the summer time. That way it is family and I can breath easier if I choose to leave. Basically when the kids are weaned and we're not ready to breed yet.

Andrew Morse wrote:Do you have any experience with Nigerian dwarf goats? I've read they are typically 1/2 - 3/4 gallon per day and a 7-10% butterfat content. I myself drank 1/2 gallon of cows milk per day when I was about 10-22. I would still drink as much now, but I'm concerned about the quality of you average cow milk from the store even if the carton says organic. My cousin, his wife and their two daughters consume as much raw organic foods as possible and have had a difficult time finding raw goat milk. My thought was to give excess milk to them as well as make cheeses in exchange for feeding animals occasionally while I'm away in the summer time. That way it is family and I can breath easier if I choose to leave. Basically when the kids are weaned and we're not ready to breed yet.

If you have a good community of friends and family you can do it. Good ideas. No experience with Nigerian Dwarf's I'm afraid other than Linda has helped a neighbor who has them with the castrating of their young boy goats. The best goat for fat content is the ones we use, the Nubian, and one of the better goats for milk solids(for making cheese) is the American LaMancha(per Joanne who runs CurdsandWhey dairy in Surprise Valley, CA)

I agree with your concern on the quality of milk, but that concern is best addressed by finding a small local goat or cow dairy and seeing their operation. The big goat dairies are okay but the goats are in an assembly line where wrong moves get them sent to the slaughter. I'm pretty sure that they don't know all their goats names! The big cow dairies have similar concerns to goats but added to that are gov't involvement in the process. Price controls and silly rules make it really hard to survive making real raw milk instead of the burnt junk. Something to check out is A2 vs A1 milk. To explain it in just a few words - the A1 milk seems to have a mutation at one point of the protein chain that allows it to break at that point more easily, and then have opioid (narcotic) properties. Many people who react to milk and think they have lactose intolerance really are reacting to the opoiods that are formed when digesting A1 milk. A2 milk is unmutated and assumed to be the natural form of milk. Goat milk hasn't been known to have the A1 mutation, it's the cow milk and it seems to be mainly associated with the Holstein breed and spread to other breeds from the interbreeding.

Goat milk has been wonderful for some of our herd owners(it's a herd share so people buy shares of the goats and cow and so become owners receiving their own milk while we just take care of the herd - legally) whose children have had severe intestinal problems and weren't improving with medical treatments. They've all come around after just a few weeks of goat milk. I'm guessing it helped the children by increasing their beneficial intestinal flora so that they digested their foods better.

Cheers, Brian and Linda

Wow, I never knew about A1 vs. A2 milk. That explains my friend who says he feels great when he drinks milk and then feels terrible later. People getting dopesick from milk... Something new every day. There are laws around here that you have to sign a waiver when receiving raw milk from any species stating that it will be used for other purposes than directly feeding people (feeding livestock, making cheese or paint etc are all OK). There are some rebel dairys working with raw milk activist groups that I've heard of, but mostly people find a friend (or cousin) like me and just keep quiet about it. In extreme cases I've heard of cps taking children away in homes where raw dairy was fed to the kids... very sad, I hope those are just rumors and nothing more. We'll co-op a solution. I still like the idea of having a young 4H or FFA student that i can hire part time in the summers. It would be education and income in one and the US needs a younger generation of farmers. If we can instill permaculture practices into the budding generation of aggies to be we might (hopefully) see a stronger shift away from factory style farming.

For any locals (and potential wwoofers) I found this website.

http://www.turtlebay.org/nursery

Well it's the nursery I'm excited about, not just the website! They have so many native plants if that's your thing, as well as a huge variety of plants generally suited to our climate which is pretty much dead on Mediterranean, not coastal, but inland.

Updates. I thought I'd emphasize the direction I'm headed with the farm. When I originally posted "Mini Krameterhoff" I was referring to a few specific things about Sepp Holzer's operation that I would like to attempt to replicate.

One is that I would like to make money. I have personal convictions about living sustainably, leaving the earth better than I found it, be the change I want to see in the world, etc... But I am a realist I need to pay the bills and I like security. Permaculture not only feeds my convictions, but can be used to maximize profit as Sepp has shown.

Another is to be multi faceted... Providing rare and nutritious foods that people can't normally get in this area because of average Ag practices, having eco tourism, selling arts and crafts, foraging.... The list is endless... Permanent... Permaculture!

I'm looking for true wwoofers. I've gotten some responses from survival/bushcraft folks looking to just survive. I appreciate those efforts, but I need people who can help with the labor, the business, healing and herbal medicine... Logistics in building a thriving micro community.

Understand that this is the opposite of a cold climate environment where you spend a short 3 month summer preparing for a long 9 month winter. There is hardly an autumn season here it's 2 months winter, 2 months spring, 7 months of summer and about a month of autumn mid Oct to mid Nov. Desert folks are my best bet, but I'll consider anyone looking to contribute to the same efforts.

Three sisters in rock bund terraces.

Tree frog friends.

Shower...