William Bronson

Yes of course they go down, it's just a question of where.

By keeping the vertical part of plumbing out from under your toilet and bathroom in general, you get different options for designing your building.
By keeping your plumbing runs in a wall chase you can access them without a sledge or jackhammer.

At work I am often entering large utility chases, and even though the space is tight, its much better than the crawlspaces I've been in.
They are usually multistory, with expanded metal flooring on each level.
I can imagine a central utility room acting as a big walk in chase, with laundry, bathing , toilet and kitchen clustered around it, in single family house.
Add your furnace and electrical panel , land line and Internet and basically you have an above ground basement, so what's the point?
Well basements are expensive, that's the point.
What if instead of the adding the other utilities to the first floor utility room, we add stairs to a utility attic?
Only the plumbing needs to be run through the foundation, everything else can probably go upstairs.
This mimics some of the commercial buildings I'm familiar with, with most of their HVAC equipment in their penthouse instead of in a basement.

Standard toilets do flush down.
Most commercial toilets go into the wall.
These use pressure instead of gravity ,to flush.
They require a large supply line, like 1" or bigger.
There are probably exceptions to this, toilets that add pressure some other way.
If not, a pump could be rigged to do this.

Or, a crawl space could be used.
Gravity is very reliable.
I live in Cincinnati, where basements are the the default, at least in the city proper.
I used to think no house should be built without a basement.
Now I think that preventing settling is the most important foundation issue.

Settling foundations will break plumbing lines, no matter what kind of foundation it is.
I think lines coming up vertically into the middle of a foundation might be more resilient than any that come in the side of a foundation.

I prefer paper bags, but for the right sized l have used a pant leg.
I save my denim pants legs for pot holders, and I some times make bags out of them.
I gather and zip tie one end, but wiring or actually sewing it shut should work.

Whatever bag it's in , I keep the loaves in a metal drawer.
I have a counter that sits on top of three identical filing cabinets.
We store food and dishes in filing cabinets to.proyrct them from mice.

Ac Baker wrote:I Now we have inherited D's late mother's double-skin bread pans.

I'm not familiar with these, how do the work?

I briefly considered buying a used bread machine...for making compost!

I made no knead bread, almost exclusively.
I have one special piece of equipment for mixing bread dough, a danish whisk.
My special tool for cleaning dough off of mixing bowls is a chainmail scrubber.
I bake in closed top containers, as is common for no knead bread
My containers are were the typical Dutch ovens, but I wanted to fit more loaves in  so I shifted to using old crocks out of crock pots.
Now I use 1/6 size steam table pans.
Their rectangular shape fits most ovens better than a crock does, they are lighter, less bulky and they stack.
I spray them with oil after they preheat in the oven, right before I add the risen bread dough.
This prevents sticking and builds layers of seasoning.
I use a thermometer to check for doneness(200F)
I use channel locks to handle the hot pans.
I use an electric carving knife to slice bread.
I use a spray bottle to finish the loaves with a vinegar/brown sugar/salt brine.
I store them in brown paper bags.
Putting a fresh loaf in plastic bags ruins the crust, in my opinion.

I do like "wonder bread" one way.
As a grilled "cheese".
I put cheese in quotes because it's American cheese.
The bread should be slathered in margarine before grilling and the soup should be sickly sweet tomato, from a can.
Pickles optional,but if they are there, they better be neon green in the inside.

This mutant "food" is beloved to me, and many of my generation.
It's the only cafeteria food item that I rember fondly.
I could start a food truck selling it and rake in the bucks.
I could sell the artisanal version of it right along side of it and I bet they would do equally well.

This is my equivalent of fairy bread, obviously bad for you but it just hits right.

I mean stucco as in wrapping something in a metal mesh and pressing a cementous material through the mesh, to form a hard shell.
One could also call it ferrocement, though  I think that is is reserved for free standing structure, not a outer coating.

In any case, I have built a kitchen sink counter that is made wood, stapled on window screen, and cement (it might have had some sand in it).
It has remained solid and waterproof for years.
Your application should not see any moisture anyway.
I suspect cement would stick directly to wool, or felted wool.



For almost no money, you could use aluminum cans.
You would need ,at most one can for every very 4-5 I h stretch of pipe.
While aluminum foil wouldn't protect the lagging, the metal of an aluminum can should.

I was looking into alternate tofus and stumbled upon someone making leaf protein concentrate from the foilage of this tree:
https://youtu.be/usXTsoJ8nsM?is=4S9qdx76nV70LmzS

There's not enough here to.make me certain the leaves of this tree are edible, but there is enough to prompt further inquiries.

Hah!
Injera!
Ethiopian injera bread is made with teff, a grain which is way too small to separate the hull out.
Now is it a sourdough?
Well it can be made with sourdough starter, but the original starter is , well unique to teff.

Teff, is rather expensive in the US, but more important than the the particulars of injera, the real answer we get from this is: flatbread!
Ground up whole grains plus sourdough makes flatbreads.
While not a loaf you can slice, they are ideal for "sandwiches"
I think there are probably dozens of these breads, made from all kinds of grains.

As usual for Permies this is is AN answer to your question, but it goes a little sideways and outside the box...

Japan didn't  get the "benefit" of being occupied by the French.
Vietnamese food culture has great bread...

In my young adulthood I found an Ethiopian restaurant near where I worked.
The raw beef was ok, but the bread ,  Injera, was 'chefs kiss' good.
They served the vegetable dishes right on a huge fresh sheet of bread.
I took my sister and dad there, such good memories!

Today I ate Pupusas , from a Salvadorian place, there are so many ways to make corn bread!