Cécile Stelzer Johnson

Most of the fruit everyone grows like strawberries, blueberries, apples etc. still fulfill the veggies requirements of vitamins, roughage, etc. that veggies do, so  as far as I'm concerned, they might as well be veggies, especially in a tight food situation. They can be eaten raw, so that's top for ease of preparation!
Otherwise, most have already be mentioned: Asparagus, sunchokes rhubarb.
I need to get some walking onions but my hubby found some ramps (Allium Tricoccum) and I'm trying to grow a patch but they aren't multiplying, so I'm doing something wrong. Garlic, although they will do better if lifted, sorted and replanted right away. (does that count as perennial? I think so as you do not need to buy new seeds each year.
I get some purslane, which, if well swollen is really good, but you need to get a lot for a meal but a few stems & leaves are easy enough to toss in a salad.
My new veggie is more of an herb and is called lovage. It tastes very much like celery but some people say stronger (so you put less in) and will come back year after year in my zone (4b). They are thinner than celery, so you can't slather them with cream cheese, but a couple of stalks will add a lot to any soup or stew, as well as the leaves.

Using tiles for mulch should work great in a bed where you never set foot (or you might break the tiles...). It will concentrate water, fertilizer etc. where it's most needed, so perhaps save you a few $$$ in fertilizer?
You will definitely save time on weeding!

Thekla McDaniels wrote:Thanks Kevin, John and Cecile.

“Short” 🤣 answers:
I was wondering what the hot in hot mixed mortars was referring to, so I began to read one of the links.  I didn’t get that far before I noticed
“air” mortar, and something about construction above ground, and something else that may address my situation of the inside of a structure to store water…. All of which will require more than I can give the issue right now, however fascinated I am with the idea of an ancient material superior to modern, toxic ubiquitous options.
Then there’s “pozzolean” a term which apparently I can’t spell, and the autocorrect function has never heard of!  I think it might be akin to the additive “fly ash”….
I would love to know about “hot” and “air” and “pozzolean” parts of the practices of ancient roman masons.  It will help me understand and plan for the upcoming phase of repair for my water system…. Which will have to include a pressure system that is protected from freezing. If there aren’t simple answers to the vocabulary question's, then I am glad to know there is material available, and knowledgeable support standing by.  Thanks.

As far as protection from freezing, if you have a frostline that is deeper than your cistern, the best way to address that, now that the cistern is built, is to cover it with enough soil to place it lower than your frost line. Google can answer "frostline in [zip code , or city]
This is what I got from Google/AI. Remember that my real knowledge in these matters is extremely limited. You do have it right that "pozzolan" (no "e") seems to refer to volcanic ash, also pumice.
"AI Overview:                
Pozzolan powder is a supplementary cementitious material that reacts with calcium hydroxide in concrete or lime mortars.
When mixed with water, it produces additional cementitious compounds. This significantly increases strength, prevents cracking, and reduces moisture permeability. Pozzolan powders generally fall into two categories, each offering distinct advantages depending on your building and restoration needs:
Natural Pozzolans Volcanic Ash & Pumice:
These include classic Roman volcanic ash and ultrafine pumice like UltraPozz: Ultrafine Pumice Pozzolan (often around $11/2 lbs). They are ideal for high-end architectural precast and Glass Fiber Reinforced Concrete (GFRC).
Calcined Clays (Metakaolin): These thermally treated clays react very quickly, making them a popular choice for high-strength SCMs in Concrete: Natural Pozzolans and bright white concrete mixes.
Artificial & Glass Pozzolans Glass-Based Powders:
Fine powders manufactured from recycled post-industrial glass, such as those produced by Vitro Minerals, help mitigate Alkali Silica Reaction (ASR) while avoiding the gray tint of fly ash.
Fly Ash & Silica Fume: By-products from industrial processes that are added to lower the heat of hydration, drastically increasing density and resistance to chemical attacks.
Applications in Building:
When used in Portland cement, pozzolans typically replace 10% to 30% of the cement powder. For lime mortars, they enable the mortar to set hydraulically and resist dissolution in wet environments. (So they can set under water.) Products like Lancaster Lime Works Pozzolan (about $10-$15 per gallon) are specifically used in traditional lime putties. To read in-depth guides about incorporating these powders into historic or modern mixes, refer to the Building Conservation Directory."
This is their free, online directory (This appears to be a British site):
https://www.buildingconservation.com/books/bcd2025/index.html

Thekla McDaniels wrote:And thanks Cecile, for the reference!  I will take a look!

Also, from:
https://www.hotmixedmortars.com/?i=1
"Hot mixed air lime mortars, with or without small volumes of pozzolanic addition, were the ubiquitous lime mortar of traditional construction around the world, only falling from general use as the 20th century wore on, when the use of Portland cement or hybrid Portland cement and industrially produced dry hydrated air lime mortars displaced them from most building sites. This shift coincided with the growing disempowerment of masons and other crafts in the industry. Previously, mortar design had been the domain of the craftsmen, and wherever they were in the world, they chose to use hot mixed air lime mortars.

These mortars were the most economically made; they were quickly and efficiently prepared (by a variety of simple methods) and delivered mortars of eminent workability and usefulness. They enjoyed unparalleled water retentivity and excellent bond, and displayed maximum cohesiveness and adhesiveness."

Since the Romans had no equals for creating baths, aqueducts , cisterns deep in the center of their own homes, I figured on looking up their wisdom.
They used a paste called Opus signinum, which sounds pretty good as it was completely waterproof and could be made very smooth. Here is the Wiki's article on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_signinum
My grandma's cistern, under her house had some sort of mortar (but I don't think it was that.)

Jay Angler wrote:

Bryant RedHawk wrote:If we had more trees, such as a full blown orchard business, I would probably espalier the trees so I didn't have to leave the ground to harvest all the fruits.
One of the big things we have to think about on Buzzard's Roost is aging and still keeping everything manageable for us as we get older.

I have just been reading, "Grow a Little Fruit Tree" by Ann Ralph and the whole book is about starting and keeping fruit trees 5 feet high or so for easy management and picking. It allows people grow more varieties in the same amount of space so they can plan ripening for continuous fresh fruit over a long season. Key to her success is summer pruning while fruit is being produced, so the tree puts its strength into the fruit, rather than in growing more branches.

On my current land, I wouldn't take her approach as we would have to spend a huge amount of time improving fencing to exclude the deer. As is, the one espalier tree I bought as a bit of an experiment for a location where I didn't want more shade, has repeatedly been assaulted by the deer despite my amateur efforts to keep them out.

Other factors are whether you have animals to feed. We tend towards a summer drought that extends through Sept and sometimes most of October. Surplus fruit would have been the traditional way of getting farm animals through that period, as the grass is dormant then.

I got lots of apple trees, semi dwarf, thinking I'd get the best of both worlds, but even the semi-dwarf are a bit tall to harvest all from the ground. I'm not sure how to prune them to keep them around 5-6 ft, so that's my limitation. If I have to, just for the choice fruit, I'll use a ladder. Most of the time, I'll shake the tree.
(Which reminds me: Does anyone know hot to make a contraption like to shake nuts from a tree?
I have mulberries that fall off quite easily, but I'd prefer an automatic tree shaker. I place 2 tarps side by side under the mulberry trees and I hit the branches. But that can be a bit destructive and then the fruit still have to be cleaned by hand...
I make an effort to keep the ground under the trees very clean. If there aren't too many fallen fruit, I'll pick those to make jams/ jellies, keeping only the best for storage. Eventually, I'll send all the chickens in the orchard to do the final cleanup. (So, of course, I don't spray!)
The main orchard has a fence adapted from prison yards: A vertical post, of course, then a bent rod. (a 3 ft rebar, really).
The bottom 1ft of the rod is attached to the vertical part with stainless steels zip ties.
The rods, leaning outwards, are then covered with some 4 ft fencing cut in half lengthwise and also fastened with stainless steel zip ties.
The total height may be no more than 6 ft, which would be easy for a deer to jump, but a deer has trouble dealing with depth because its eyes ae on the sides of its head. Plus, when I cut the fencing in half, I make sure to put the sharp points upwards. They have not challenged the fence, but we have quite a few deer. I'm eyeing a big 6 pointer for this fall...
So far, so good, but I must make sure to close the gate!!!

Jen Fulkerson wrote:Like almost everyone who grows a garden I grow tomatoes. Being a serial gardener I'm always looking for ways to grow it better. Besides Permies ( my most reliable source) I spend a lot of time on YouTube. The wealth of information can make my head explode. I want to ask what you do or don't do in your gardens?

* Do you direct sow? If you plant transplants do you plant at soil level, deeper than it was in the pot, or sideways?
* Do you prune? Single stem, or just the suckers?
* How do you water?
* Do you fertilize?
* How do you support your tomatoes?
* Do you plant all your tomatoes together, on mix it up?
* Any special companions?
*What's your secret to amazing tomatoes?
* Do you do some of those things like dissolve aspirin in water, and spray on the leaves, or use Epsom salt, or any other unusual things,?
I'm interested in answers to these questions. If you post please don't feel like you have to answer every question, I'll enjoy what ever you want to share.

I'll go first I'm in zone 9b N. CA. So I have a very long hot dry summer season. I start my seeds in the house, then move them to my little greenhouse, then transplant into the garden once the night time temps are 50 or above. I did  manage to direct sow some in the garden last year. They did well, but took a lot longer to produce, and didn't out perform the ones I started earlier. I always used remove the bottom sets of leaves and plant deep. This year I read that slowed production down, so I didn't do it. I think I'm already regretting it. All my tomatoes are falling over and seem to need a lot of support. Usually I only have to worry about that once it gets kinda tall.  I add my fertilizer mix( what ever organic stuff I have, like blood, bone meal, azamite, greensand, biolive) twice a year when I transition from winter to spring, and summer to fall when I also add compost. I add a little of the mix to the bottom of the hole, and then soil then a bit of mycorrhiza. I strongly believe creating great soil is more important than fertilizing ( all my raised beds are hugel beet style) I usually grows indeterminate. The last couple of years I have been trying tomatoes that are supposed to do well in hot dry climate. I use tomato cages my son made for me that are awesome. That's about it for me. I water when I think it needs it when it's in the 100s that can be every day. I don't prune sometimes I remove suckers, but most of the time I don't get around to it. The last couple of years I did remove the flowers until the tomato got to a good size. I don't fertilize during the growing season, I tried compost tea in the past, but I didn't really think it made a difference. I definitely mix it up tomatoes go in every bed ( I have major gopher problem, so I only grow in raised beds,) lots of companions. Always basil, near by are always nasturtiums, marigolds, zinnias, radish, and all sorts of veggies, fruit, herbs and flowers. Bye August it's a jungle.  I usually get tomatoes, the last couple of years better than most for me. Is it because of something I'm doing, or just luck, I don't know, time will tell. The last couple of years I have gotten a lot of tomatoes, and my husband says they taste great (I don't like tomatoes unless they are used for cooking) I don't get production like I see on the Internet where the vines have mass amounts of tomatoes. I'm happy with what I have been getting, but always strive to learn more.  Thanks

In Wisconsin zone 4b, you have to start them inside and if you plant them after mid March, you can still get a decent crop if you start them on heat mats, but in March.
Tomatoes make "adventitious roots". They show up as little bumps at first on the stem close to the ground. Plant them deeper than the little bumps, either standing or laying down. I plant them in half barrels (the big blue plastic ones) as it makes harvesting with a bad back a lot easier, also, I wrap a piece of 2" X 4" fence around them ( I can pass my hand through for harvesting), a little copper and some straw to limit blight: We have a lot of blight around here. (Tomatoes and potatoes fall prey to it.) That's for support, too.
I plant only 1 tomato plant per half barrel but my barrels are mixed. Roma tomatoes, purple, yellow pears, gold especially are my favorites, the barrels almost touching.
Basil and French marigold work great, inside the same 1/2 barrel for companion plants.
I don't fertilize much. Sometimes with comfrey tea, sometimes with a bit of commercial if I have to, but nothing really unusual.
Watering is key, especially if your tomatoes are in containers as they cannot take advantage of the wetness of the soil that would surround them. So yeah: you really have to water them on a schedule so they never get dry if you grow them in containers: I have lengths of 10 ft, 1" PVC, little tubes comin out of it and into the 1/2 barrels. The little tubing is long enough to get under the leaves directly on 1" of milled straw.

Well, my husband has a shooting berm, about 15 ft high, and although we never planted anything on it (it might get shot at!) a variety of things are growing on it.
Halfway up the flank, in the back is an ugly jack pine growing 4 ft up the slope. It's massive. It supports a wild grape vine that is climbing all the way up. The grape vine seems sterile, but even if it had grapes, I would need a tall ladder to get at them.
On the southwest, a group of Eastern prickly pears (opuntia humifusa) were transplanted there by my hubby, and they are doing well.
The most surprising of all, way at the top of this mound of dirt is a wild cherry tree. The trunk is as big as my calf and more than twice as tall as me. It would be nice if it gave me some fruit, but so far, not a one. If it did, it would most likely be the tiny fruit with very little flesh relative to the stone. But I have another one like that from which I take the fruit to make Kirsch, a delicious liquor made by crushing cherry pits  with Vodka. My Kirschwasser has an interesting almond flavor.
Holding the whole berm together are rambling blackberry vines which also do not give much: I can't grow the really big blackberries that make my mouth water, like they have out West. Ours here have small fruit that too often dry on the vine before they are edible.
I should mention that the berm is made of a number of half rotted logs covered with the kind of 'soil', we have mostly here, plus a load of imported 'soil' (which is still mostly sand).
To the northeast, there is a volunteer asparagus, about 1 ft up the berm. It gives me the biggest asparagus, (bigger than my thumbs) bigger even than the 50 Millenia asparagus which I bought and planted 4 yrs ago.
None of these have been fertilized or watered and as I have often mentioned, we live in Central Wisconsin, a sandbox where some of the biggest potatoes are grown. (Sorry, Idaho, but at the last check, Wisconsin had the record for *useable* potatoes: Once they grow past 3 pounds, they are just a curiosity and are not particularly tasty).
While Plover, Wisconsin is the heart of the state's commercial potato production—and home to the iconic 39-foot-tall World's Largest Potato Masher at the Food + Farm Exploration Center—the state's standout agricultural records still point back to Embarrass, WI for massive backyard finds.

I didn't know I was doing it right, but as a 77 yr old, there was no way I was going to dig then fill with logs. plus I don't have the equipment.
That was only serendipity on my part, though: I had a bunch of red oak that had the wilt and I could not sell that wood because it would have contaminated some other property.
I can't quite claim that it's a hugel yet because I have very little soil on it, although as the bottom logs/brush rot away, it should almost qualify in a few years.
But you know what: I have a great double wind break and critters are coming to live in the (very) long piles of timber/ brush.
I'm not growing anything it it yet but I'm tossing old seeds in it and on it. So staghorn sumac is growing in it now and also false indigo.
I have solved the double problem of not being able to keep snow and rain from draining away into the ditch that's along the road and also, as I was saying I have a double wind break. In some areas, I can no longer see through, and it's impressive enough for the deer to go around.

Anne Miller wrote:

Cécile Stelzer Johnson wrote:Does anyone know an easy way to bust them up and turn them into powder to use on potatoes and other tubers that like bonemeal?

Boiling the bones or pressure cooking them will soften the bones.
I found this out by making lots of bone broth.

Thanks, Ann. While I already have a lot of bone broth, I wanted to use the bones in my garden as an amendment. I figure on picking the chicken-cleaned, ant-cleaned, sun-bleached bones from their paddock and pressure cook them, then pound them to a pulp and air-dry them.
Thanks again for the tip!