Mike Haasl

Sure will.  The fittings might make it more expensive than the 2" but it would function just fine

I'm open to suggestions but I'm trying to stick with something affordable and that I can get my hands on.  Houses around here are often insulated with blown in cellulose insulation which is paper fibers treated with stuff.

Planer shavings are fluffier than general wood shavings with what I believe to be good air gap properties, even when packed down.  Saw dust wouldn't be as good in my opinion.

I tested a clay slip shaving at a recent permaculture convergence and it packed nicely and stayed put.  It "seemed" like it wouldn't settle with how hard it was packed.  The session leader said that 1 cup of borax in 20 gallons of clay slip (or water) mixed in with the shavings is enough for bug discouragement.  

I'll take a R 2.1 any day for a free insulation option.  That would give me R8.4 in the walls and R 12.6 in the floor and ceiling.  Plus another R2 for the boards that make up the interior and exterior cladding. I'd be very happy with that.  

I agree that loose shavings are a great fire starter but if they're packed in a wall cavity, I'm not worried about fire.  

Water is my biggest concern, thus the focus of my questions above

Situation: Tiny home in a cold/frigid climate for year round living.  Desiring natural building techniques, metal is ok.  Roof pitch limited to around 6:12.  Cathedral ceiling preferred but attic is ok if needed.

The walls will be tongue and groove wood on the inside, planer shavings, borax and maybe clay slip as the insulation (4" on walls, 6" on floor and roof), and board and batten or t&g exterior boards.  

The floor will be wood boards on 6" floor joists with the same insulation as in the walls.  The exposed surface underneath will be metal roofing, partially for mouse prevention.

In a cathedral ceiling situation, the ceiling will be wood boards and the same insulation.  My simple thought is to use metal roofing and pack the shavings fully between the ceiling and roofing.  But, I'm worried about condensation on the underside of the metal getting the insulation wet and leading to rot/mold.  If I leave an air gap, the condensation will likely still form and some may run down hill and exit but some undoubtedly would get into the insulation.  I've heard that if the dew point is reached "in" the insulation you don't have anything to worry about but I'm not sure if that's with styrofoam or any kind of insulation.

In an attic situation, I could do ceiling boards, insulation and then more boards on top to contain the insulation and block airflow.  Then have a well vented attic with a metal roof.  Would that greatly reduce the condensation to the point of not having to worry? Plus it would drip on boards instead of insulation so it probably would evaporate?

Alternately, is there a natural sort of vapor barrier I could use to keep humid house air from reaching the roof metal?  Perhaps rosin paper or single ply cardboard?

Alternately, is there another form of roofing that would not have the condensation problem? Thatch isn't a solution for my area/expertise.  Wood shingles might be...

I'm hoping the floor wouldn't have the same problem....

Thanks!!!

My 1950's house has floor joists on 16" centers, 1x6 t&g subfloor boards running 45 degrees across the joists, and the flooring was on top of that.  Kinda squeaky but it's solid.

That was probably old growth wood though.  If I were replicating it today, I'd look for 1" rough cut boards (pine or similar), plane them down a little bit if they're too variable in thickness, maybe t&g them, and install them perpendicular to the joists.  

Maybe do a mock-up of some joists and the boards you find to see how beefy they are.  14" centers on the joists would really stiffen it up, if needed.

It's 10 days away and I can't wait!!!  The natural building workshop went well and there will be dirty hands during the convergence from the clay plaster.  I'm going to bring along some pine planer shavings to attempt a "clay slip shaving" wall insulation system.  Watered down clay and straw works, so why not with planer shavings?  

The food committee is sorting out the food so please get your ticket sooner rather than waiting til the last minute so they buy the right amount.

I hear there will be a sound bath...

Thanks everyone!!  I guess I hadn't thought of the naturality of the drain.  I'll have to look at options but I'm guessing those will end up being pvc.

I like the upside down SS table idea William!  It reminds me that I should go to the surplus/refurbished kitchen supply warehouse and see if they have anything like that.  Or anything else that might work...  We are trying to avoid cement.

I also like the tadelakt idea but I'm guessing I wouldn't be able to get it to actually work.

I don't know any hobby metal benders but I can ask my network.

I am thinking of using the cheap fake metal roofing sheets that they use for wainscoting as the shower walls...

I'm contemplating a shower in a tiny home.  The owner wants the whole build to be natural (metal allowed).  I'm struggling to find good options for a natural shower pan to collect shower water and keep it from rotting out the naturally insulated floor.  They might be ok with a fiberglass shower base but they're fairly expensive these days.

All I can think of is a metal container of some sort that can be repurposed.  Some options are:

- Galvanized wash tub
       - Pros are it's pretty water proof, would keep a shower curtain contained and could be hauled outside to dump if a drain isn't included.  
       - Con is that it's kinda high to step into and not likely big enough for comfortable shower dancing (24" dia).



- Galvanized square stock tank
      - Pros are that it's water proof, would keep a curtain contained and is shower sized (34" on a side)
      - Cons are that it's $170 so a bit pricier than the alternatives



- Water heater leak catch pan
       - Pros are that it's flat bottomed, water tight, cheap and has a side drain hole
       - Cons are that it's flimsy, may not keep a shower curtain inside it, is only 28" diameter, and has a side drain hole



- Washing machine drain pan
       - Pros: Has a drain, beefy, 32x30 is borderline size, rectangular
       - Cons: Fiberglass, won't keep a shower curtain inside it



- Duct drain pan
       - Pros: didn't know it existed in the world, leak proof, cheap, square
       - Cons: Only 24", need a better threshold, shallow, probably flimsy



- Big piece of galvanized metal and bend it into a pan shape
       - Pros: likely cheap and within my abilities, customizable to fit the shower space, custom threshold height
       - Cons: don't know where to get a piece of galvanized sheet metal that big (48" square?)

Any other ideas or thoughts?  Thanks!

I think that since it's generally considered a tended space (the park), that would seem too much like a cultivated tree to be easy to approve

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