Tricia Rubert-Nason

Tristan Vitali wrote:Funny this came up in the dailyish - just brought my flat of highbush cranberry seeds out for their final round of cold strat  I'm offgrid with no refrigerator to use for such things, so I have to rely on mother nature to do it for me. I often plant things I know will be very vigorous direct in the ground in the fall, but that's certainly not going to work for everything.

They were seeded into a bit of garden soil, which had been heavily amended with duck pond "muck" earlier in the year before growing hungry cabbage and brussels sprouts. This was in a cheapo plastic bin from wally world I picked up about 12 years ago now for just this purpose (side note - the trays have had it the last few years and are cracking into pieces...they don't like the UV in sunlight at all! Good investment, but bad material to have breaking to pieces every time you touch it!)

Because highbush cranberry seed has a double dormancy, it's extra tricky. The cranberry was put in the tray october or november sometime and left outdoors in a cool, shady spot for their first round. The tray was then brought in and kept on the RMH bench from Jan 1st to now, watered occasionally as the 80 to 100 degrees F of bottom heat tends to dry out my plants pretty quick. Not it's back outside buried under a pile of snow in a "warm" area so it doesn't freeze up solid right away. When the "warm" area gets too warm, I'll move it to a shady, cool area on the north side of the "shed wrap" to finish the cold stratification. If necessary due to a good solid warm up in the weather coming, I'll pile snow and ice over the tray then put a light colored tarp over it so it can get what cold it needs

I also brought in other cold strats just a couple days ago from the winter cold. Black walnuts, gentian, hazelnuts, elecampane and several other things. Actually lost track of what I planted in the fall. Same process though - seed tray filled with mild garden soil seeded and placed in a cool area for the fall and winter, then "brought in" to warm up. By "brought in", I'm actually bringing them into a half-hoop "hoop house" type sunroom I have attached. I even have a garden bed in the sunroom I keep planted with usually green onions, brassicas and parsley - nothing better than harvesting fresh broccoli florets in your t-shirt while it's still dropping to near zero outside at night in february.

Another side note - some stratification I've done right in the sunroom garden. I accidentally didn't get my pots seeded with apple out in time and many started sprouting. Gets cold enough down at the shadier end near the plastic that they got what they needed for chilling to sprout.

That's my weird way of doing stratification, which just goes to show you need not be a scientist to get it to work. Nature doesn't require fancy paper towels, plastic bags, special sand or any of the other stuff. Cold is cold - with my methods up here in maine, you just have to avoid going so cold it doesn't count anymore

I successfully stratified high bush cranberry using mother nature and patience. I packed my seed in a plastic bag with moist sand and buried it in a (well-marked) hole in the garden for two winters. Dug it up the second spring to excellent germination. The only challenge was that I was a little slow in the spring and I had to tease all the little sprouts apart before planting them.

I used the same method (for a single year) with hazelnuts to excellent results.

Fresh ground using a hand grinder. Pour over using a cloth filter. I used to use a French Press. Either way, I just can't wrap my head around regularly using disposable paper filters. Also, I'm cheap.

If you want cheap land and are up for serious winters, consider coming all the way north. I live in Northern Maine (on the Canadian border). I love it here, but I would not recommend coming up and planning to spend the winter with minimal shelter. It is not a feasible option in this climate.

What kind of winters are you familiar with and what is the harshest weather you have experienced? I've lived everywhere from Houston all the way north to the Canadian border. If you've never lived in the north, I'd be a little concerned you might not appreciate what you are getting into.

My area averages 8 feet of snow in winter (we got 12 last winter). Temperatures of -20F are common in winter. Lows in the 40's are common even in the middle of summer. And our growing season is just over 100 days. That said, it is beautiful, land is cheap, the people are friendly, and the skiing is amazing (and right out my back door. And if the weather here is too harsh for you, there are certainly areas further south that don't get as cold.

David Huang wrote:

Perhaps not thriving yet, but I'm still absolutely delighted to see that this year the perennial wild sweet peas I've been trying to start are getting established.  Several have flowered for the first time.  I'm going to continue to encourage them to spread and take over their zones as these are want to do.  Then I should have an abundance each year of early shoots, followed by tender immature pods, and later dried peas to eat.  The side bonus will be all the glorious flowers!

Perhaps off topic, but I thought it was important to note that the flower commonly known as sweet peas in the United States (Lathyrus odoratus) is toxic (all parts). Garden peas (pisum sativum) on the other hand are delicious, but annual. I'm not familiar with a perennial edible pea. What species are you growing?

We moved this summer to a new property in northern Maine.  It is a long narrow half acre lot oriented with one corner of the backyard towards the south.  In addition to a cold climate (zone 3) we have quite a bit of shade on our property due to a line of mature spruce trees along the SW edge of the property and a mature red pine and paper birch in the east corner.  We have a little bit of full sun near the house and a lot of area that gets about 5 hours of sunlight.  We also have areas that range down to full, deep shade.  

There is a lot competing for the limited area with full sun including annual gardens and flowers (to brighten our patio area) so I'm trying to optimize my use of the available sunlight.  I'm aware of a number of bushes that will thrive and fruit in partial shade.  However, I'm working on where to put the more typical fruit trees that want full sun.  Does anyone know if some will tolerate shading better than others?

Fruits I need to find places for:
-Apple
-Pear
-Plum
-Cherries
-Apricot*
-Persimmon*

*marginally hardy, experimental

For reference, (in case anyone else is looking for cold and shade tolerant plants) the shrubs I am planning on including are:

Full sun:
-Raspberry
-Blueberry (low-high hybrid)
-Honeyberry
-Blackberry
-Grapes* (vine)

Partial Shade:
-Currants
-Gooseberries
-Elderberry
-Hazelnuts
-Nannyberry
-Raisin Bush
-Serviceberry (can be tree or shrub, depending on species)
-Red Osier Dogwood (Nitrogen fixer, ornamental and wildlife value)
-NJ Tea
-Mock Orange
-Steeplebush

Expensive, but they should be hardy in Ontario...

https://www.greenbarnnursery.ca/products/campbell-grafted-persimmon

James Landreth wrote:Look into St. Lawrence nurseries in upstate NY. A lot of their trees are hardy to zone 3. If you're unsure shoot them an email and ask.

Thanks!  They're a good source, although quite a bit south of me.

Kathleen Sanderson wrote:Have you checked to see what the University of Alaska recommends for the Fairbanks area?  The climate is actually somewhat similar to where you are -- it *might* get a little colder in Fairbanks most winters, and they don't get as much annual precipitation.  There are nurseries in Alaska growing plants and trees, including fruit trees, for that climate.  You would have to do some searching and see what you could find, and make sure they can ship out of the state (probably can).  

Kathleen

Consulting the Alaska extension service was a great suggestion.  Turns out Anchorage is a closer climate match than Fairbanks.  Either way, the Alaska extension was an invaluable resource.  They have great advice for fruit trees in cold climates and also highlighted fireweed for me.  It's a native plant that is extremely abundant in my area and is already growing my yard.  I knew the flowers were edible, but it turns out most of the plant is.  That sent me looking for other wild edibles and I discovered that many of the native plants I already know well and was planning to grow are also edible.  An absolute goldmine of easy to grow plants that stack multiple functions.  

Mike Jay wrote:One further comment.  Aronia likes it in wetter less well drained areas so it might struggle in your sand.  Elderberry could have the same problem.  I have a well drained sandy food forest and my shrub/tree choices so far have been:

The advice for sandy soil is really helpful.  I've never lived anywhere with sandy soil before, so I'm used to working with heavy clay soils.  Acid soils are novel too, but I'm looking forward to growing blueberries. I moved here from Madison where we have limestone bedrock so acidifying the soil is essentially impossible.

Northern Bayberry (not for food but nitrogen fixing candle maker)

I really want to grow bayberry.  It's marginally hardy here, but it comes from the coastal area of this region and it is just really cool.  

Black and red currant (WPBR resistant varieties)  I'm not sure that red varieties are automatically blister rust resistant...  

It is not a question of resistance, it is a question of how effective it is at transmitting it to pine trees.  Something about the black currant makes it exceptionally effective at spreading the disease.  Since forestry is the main industry up here and pine is major business, things that negatively affect that crop are a no-no.