house hold hydro unit

This is my plan on a water /dc electric unit that most every one could utilize . A water tank on a 14 ft tower ( the higher the tower ,the more pressure= power ) .the water from your well pump or city line goes into the tank .under this tank is steped down pvc pipes( 4 inch into 3 inch into 2 inch into 1 inch ) under this is a water wheel in a tank  ( or a water pump reversed , as in the water spins a generator useing a waterpump , totally enclosed unit ,which ever route you take ) a little dc would be made as water was used and stored in a battery bank . I will work out the detail trail and error ,and will post updates as to my findings . I call this the greggd system , I might as well claim it , I have never seen or read about a system with this approach . I want it to be free to all the world, to everybody to use and maybe it will save us permies a little money. If you build this system ,please make notes and share with everyone ( for free ) . have a blessed day ,Greggd

you are going to spend more energy pumping it up there than you will be able to extract from it falling back down

think of it this way when you toss a ball in the air it actually comes down a little slower that it was going when it left your hand because of air resistance but even under ideal conditions would come down at the same speed

your system producing energy would be akin to a ball so bouncy that it went higher with each bounce

greggd,

I have been thinking along the same lines, but have had the same limitations as Brice has suggested.  If it is being pumped from your well by electricity, then you can't produce enough electricity to pay for pumping. 

However, if you are using county water, their water pressure puts it in your tank. 

I also thought of using several small hydro units on the main county water line to my house, every time I run water then these units would be using county water pressure to produce small amount of electricity. 

You could also put hydro units on your downspouts, no pumping needed.

The question I have is how long would it take to pay back on investment.

kinda the same idea of running a small charger off the voltage from your phone line which is also free with phone service? pressurizing the line takes energy too. I think it comes down to a question of ethics. what if everyone did it?

Thank you all for the input.I was not planning on useing a  extra pump for lifting. I can take a waterhose up a ladder,hold it 20 ft. no pressure problems,so it would fill a tank. the tank would pressurize,by gravity and being reduced in the step down pipes. The use of the pump that I wrote about ,was to be connected in between the down fall pipe.water would turn the paddles in the pump,spinning the motor of the pump( I want to experiment with the motor wireing ) if the motor will  not generate power , then I will revert to useing pullys and gear ratios to govern torque and speed . I feel this will work . I am not an engineer, or inventer, but I read,study and think .later ,greggd

Note that decreasing the pipe size from the upper height to the lower outlet end will not increase pressure. The pressure on a column of water is dependent on the height of the water column; 0.43 PSI per foot of water. The pressure is the same for any size pipe; a larger pipe gives more flow volume and the smaller pipe less flow.

Power would only be generated when the water was running or being used. In a normal home water doesn't actually run through any pipes very much, with the exception of irrigation. Also when energy is changed from one type to another, there are inefficiencies. Water to electric = loss. Electric to chemical (battery) storage = loss. Chemical to electrical = another loss. The idea may be forward thinking but I believe it will not result in any gain, most likely a loss when all the component costs are considered.

no free lunch

Greggd,

I replied to a similar post of yours on another of the forums about feasibility of the general idea of water towers for hydro. I see now that I missed that you are "on the (water) grid" - e.g. planning to use the municipal pressure to put the water in the tank... and hence would have an essentially unlimited supply of water.

The slight ethical question another poster raised about "what if everyone did it?" is mooted by a reply that raises a bigger question. The reason you are not overusing your share of some ideal "community water pressure" supply is that they (presumably) charge you for municipal water. And I assume that charge is paying for their costs to pump it and pressurize it (in our town that is to another much larger village-owned tower. The real issue then becomes how much you would pay for large amounts of water.

But I see that you are probably not proposing using tens of thousands of gallons of municipal water per day to drive a hydro system !

Which means (please clarify if not) that you are planning to basically cycle your daily use through such a system.

With this we can use an analysis similar to what I posted on the other forum to calculate energy available based on volume of water and amount of "head" (drop).

Average 4-person household use of indoor water is 400 gallons per day. At 8 pounds per gallon that's 3200 pounds of water. Drop that 14 feet and you have 44,800 foot-pounds of work.

40 foot-pounds of work in a second is 50 watts of energy for one second. 1 foot-pound is 1.25 watts. But you wouldn't use all that water in one second.

If you ran all 400 gallons of your daily usage  through a 100% efficient generator over the course of ONE HOUR (3600 seconds) that would give you about 12 foot-pounds each second or 15 watts continuously.

Not sure its a keeper ?!

D.

same caveat as before !! I'm no expert - just someone who has wandered these paths numerically for a while.

Here's a long thread on another forum about this very thing. It wanders a bit here and there but worth reading through for those who don't understand that if energy is taken out of a system in some form, there is a cost.



http://www.control.com/thread/1026244600

Thanks for the input ! I pay for my water that I pump from my well.  I pay for the electricity to pump it . however everyone that buys any water from anyone owns that water that they pay for ,period. This should answer the ethical question.If I could extract some power it would be a plus ( win win for me ) but I am told it is not feasable, so it won't work. I quit .

greggd wrote:
Thanks for the input ! I pay for my water that I pump from my well.  I pay for the electricity to pump it . however everyone that buys any water from anyone owns that water that they pay for ,period. This should answer the ethical question.If I could extract some power it would be a plus ( win win for me ) but I am told it is not feasable, so it won't work. I quit .

greggd, you need to look into the bedini motor. I have seen a few working in north idaho. i cant explain it. but its right up your ally.

Thanks Casey , I will check out the bedini motor . Have a blessed day ,greggd

From what I have read here it does not seem like alot of gain.  But I wonder why you would even need a tank if you have city water.  If you hooked a water turbin directly into your incoming line you would have all of the pressure the water company was giving you with out the expense of a tank.  Your system would not effect the water pressure for anyone else because the water company's line has pressure all the time and it is outside of your home. You might effect the pressure in your shower slightly,  but I do not see much problem there.  At that point what ever you generated in DC power would indeed be " Free" after the up front cost of the turbin and storage batterys.  You may have to run your water full on when ever you use it to get the generator to operate.  Just useing a trickle to rince your tooth brush for example would not make any power.  So the question is more one of pay back time  .

I do not have city water, therefore the need of a tank. My thoughts were only to generate a little dc as water was used.I pay to pump water out of the ground,this would be some return verses no return if not useing the system .