Josh Terrell

Michael Cox wrote:They need less precision when laying them out. Long swales pretty much need to be perfectly on contour, or they turn into flowing streams with erosion. These half-moon swales don't need that level of precision, so are likely better suited to situation where equipment is minimal and hand tools are being used.

Plus a single one of these structures is effective in isolation. If digging by hand you could make one in a day, and just keep expanding the array in increments as time allows. Harder to do with linear swales that need to be perfectly aligned to contour and spaced and sized more carefully to handle peak rainfall events (avoiding erosion).

Nice! Your perspective makes a lot of sense to me. Thank you for sharing!

With experience and machinery, long swales on contour could be more efficient. But I personally feel drawn towards an iterative approach, and have been thinking about shorter linear swales on contour. However these semi-circles have really stuck me too. If you have any thoughts on shorter swales on contour vs these semi-circles, I'd like to hear that too.

Awesome video! I can't wait to be using techniques like these once my partner and I find land.

Does anyone have thoughts on how semi-circles like these compare with longer swales and berms for similar purposes?

The first thought that came to mind was "free compost!" I'm all for the free poop and pee. However your health concern sounds quite reasonable, and I wouldn't want them in certain areas of my garden or yard either.

Do y'all have, or have y'all considered having, a dog? My neighbor has quite literally a heard of cats, and they hardly ever cross over to our property even though my dog is hardly out. They've seen him a few times, and he pees on quite a few areas close to the property line because, presumably, he likes marking his territory. I second Douglas' thought--a deterrent may go a long way to discouraging them from being near your property.

The interview starting at 3:55 is my favorite resource on Syntropic Agroforestry so far:

https://youtu.be/CQ6kabPXkb8

The way the Brazilian man talks about being a part of the ecosystem (rather than being outside of it or above it) was not only deeply beautiful to me, but it also has influenced my gardening practices. Seeing myself as like an ant, helping decomposition occur more quickly, so that the ecosystem can accelerate through succession and build fertility more quickly... For me it just really gives a clear high-level understanding of what all of this seems to be about, and why it works so well.

Side note: Even though I now realize my gardening style that I've synthesized from many different people and sources is closest to Syntropic Agroforestry, and even though I've now been inspired quite a lot by Syntropic Agroforestry, I still don't claim to be a Syntropic Gardner/Farmer. I believe in the power of chop and drop, diversity, and maximizing the amount sunlight collected, but Syntropic is much more strictly defined than this, so I don't feel right identifying myself with the term 😕

Faye Streiff wrote:Josh,
 Probably best if you wait to build a customer base just as you are ready to plant seeds, then you can taylor to their needs and they don’t have so long a wait.

Thank you for your perspective Faye! I am feeling aligned with this too. I am also open to hearing any other perspectives about when to start communicating to customers that they will be able to buy food in the near future.

Dian Green wrote:You said you wanted to sell boxes of mixed harvests directly to customers. I have seen this done, even back in the 80's.
It is pretty common here in Ontario for small independent farmers to offer what is called CSA boxes. That is community supported agriculture and customers typically pick amoung a few types of options and sign up for a season of ( most commonly) weekly boxes of whatever you are growing.
You can do pick up at your farm gate or some partner with another business to host pickup options. Boxes or bags are generally reusable and get brought back each week so very little packaging is needed.

Hey Dian, you are right. Furthermore I knew this and somehow said this anyway:

Josh Terrell wrote:However I have zero experience or success selling mixed boxes, and no one I've seen has done this.

Selling mixed boxes has been done, and I think CSAs are where I got the idea from. Thank you for sharing this. I think that terminology (community supported agriculture) may be an excellent way to communicate to potential customers 💯

I think what's different about what I've been considering in comparison to CSAs I've known is:  (a) each box might have something different, because I would harvest directly into CSA boxes from the field (no sorting) and (b) customers wouldn't pay for the CSA up front. They'd just pay to actually buy the box at the time the box is available until perhaps my 2nd or 3rd year, when I was confident I wouldn't let them down.

However your post brought me into considering an alternative idea:

Assuming that I'm growing a variety of veggies together (small-garden style), harvesting each of the 70+ species (perhaps up to 20-30 ripe in a given season) into pure boxes will not be feasible.

Perhaps I can harvest the wide variety of veggies into multiple "harvest" boxes (instead of directly into CSA boxes). I could harvest into maybe 6 harvest boxes on a hand-pushed cart in a single pass across the field every 2-7 days. I could harvest veggies that can be harvested together into a single box (eg potatoes, carrots, and beets in one box... but kale and spinach in another box). Then I could bring these "harvest" boxes back (perhaps making another pass with a large trailer to pick up the boxes), and sort them into CSA boxes and/or display boxes (for customers to buy quantities/weights of produce from).

I'm getting long-winded, but I also want to briefly share that I really appreciate your idea about edible flowers, herbs, and crafting materials too. I've written those categories down. Just like with veggies, I want to go through the list of most common herbs and edible flowers, and see what I can grow in my climate. I want to grow a very wide variety of foods (and materials!), so I can have deeper, more substantial relationships with fewer customers, and still make enough $$ to live on. Your idea about preservation is something I definitely need to revisit. Simple & cheap preservation methods (dehydration, basement cool storage, and pickling?) will likely be my best bet, as I don't think I have the capacity to learn cooking (yet).

I need to do some more processing; your share has me thinking. Thanks for the conversation about this!! And I welcome any more thoughts 😊

Anne Miller wrote:

Josh Terrell, said A follow up Q for you:

Would you mind elaborating a bit on the common kinds of accounting and management failures you've seen? This may help me focus on common errors, and it could help others too.

The ones I have heard about most recently are service-type businesses.

One was Dog Sitting or Pet Sitting.  The lady just didn't know how to manage her money.  Her customers loved her and were sorry to see her give up.

The other one was a managing service for AirBand Bs.

As soon as the employees got training they went to work for themselves.

Thank you, Anne. I don't want to give up; I would like to succeed. I believe discussing things like these with people like you will maximize my potential to help myself, my family, and those in my community.

I will likely make financial mistakes. One I almost just made: buying something I don't really need yet. I could save about 4x the money if I just buy a 5 pack of 1020 trays, and build one tray to soak them in, instead of buying a soaking tray for each 1020 tray, and doubling the 1020 trays to 10 so I have an equal amount of both. It's thoughts and decisions to save like this that I need to celebrate...frugality is something I need to have a lot of if I am to be able to offer my customers food at a reasonable price.

Finally, at some point (even now), I want to discuss this idea about employees leaving to work for themselves! I would like to offer good enough wages and profit sharing, plus opportunities for growth and shared ownership (even franchising), that employees might see staying as more beneficial for them and their families than leaving. But I've never hired an employee before. I may start with just contract hourly help, and work up to a full time employee once the relationship has been established. Definitely something I'm new to and have a lot to learn about. However I think I won't likely want to hire help until my second year or later, so I've got time to discuss! 🙂

...

Thank you all for supporting me by discussing and sharing with me! 🙇‍♂️

Pavlo Khylynskyi wrote:Josh Terrell, what about Clammy Locust?

So pretty! I hadn't heard of it, but I added it to my list now. Will grow that one too since it's native 😀

As for whether it fixes nitrogen, I don't know, and it does not seem to be as well documented online, but I bet the answer is out there somewhere!

Hey R,

Nice post title 😅

I'll preface this by saying--I don't know.

However I just thought of a few ideas that may or may not be helpful for you.

TIL that walnut is allelopathic! Perhaps that area could just be for juglone-compatible plants? Luckily the walnut is on the north side and you're in the northern hemisphere, so shade hopefully won't be a big issue. If it is, you may have the ability to prune the parts that are hanging over your property line.

A few thoughts to consider: you could place a couple of long garden beds on the inside (or outside) of your hedge row on the east side of your property. They may only get half a day of sun, so you may be limited on what you can grow. Also, you could consider curved garden beds around the perimeter of what looks like the grassy areas and sidewalk on the east side of the house.

And finally, the last thought that came to mind would be just to try creating a small, maybe 4ft bed in multiple spots, seeing what areas do best, and expanding outwards after some observation.

Also I agree with not putting anything edible or destructive over the septic!

Hey Pavlo,

This question is much more difficult than I originally thought! Here's what struck me from the current page on Wikipedia:

The ability of Gleditsia to fix nitrogen is disputed. Many scientific sources state that Gleditsia does not fix nitrogen.
...
How this happens is not yet well understood but there have been some observations of nitrogenase activity in non-nodulating leguminous plants, including honey locust.
...
It is not known whether the non-nodulating nitrogen fixation, if it exists, benefits neighboring plants as is said to be the case with nodulating legumes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey_locust#Nitrogen_fixation

Sorry I don't have an answer, I just find it very interesting that there is dispute as to whether some legumes fix nitrogen. I never knew that.

I do want to share, however, that there is a sibling to Honey Locust, "Black Locust" which apparently does fix nitrogen. I hear Black Locust can be quite aggressive. However since it's native to my region (southeastern US), I intend to grow it.

Hey Ben, thank you for your thoughts!!

Ben Zumeta wrote:Sell value added products directly to the consumer whenever possible.

I love it! This is something I've hardly considered, but dream of sometimes. A couple of the ideas I've thought of are selling nut bars, pies, jams, and corn chips. I'm not much of a cook and don't enjoy it much, but there are a few foods like these that could help me not just make higher margins, but also preserve my harvests so they don't spoil.

Your idea also has me considering another avenue: creating partnerships with local chefs who love this sort of thing, so I can grow them the ingredients and they could make the foods (win win!)

Ben Zumeta wrote:Get a livestock guardian dog or two, within a tall sturdy fence, and they will fill the niche of the predators you would like to keep at a distance. They will protect their territory, livestock, and the trees and gardens therein. I have found Pyrenees-Akbash to be an ideal cross. They have 10,000yrs of permaculture bred into them, and are better at it than I am!

😮

This may be very an important idea for me to digest and explore more fully. The current exclusion techniques I have considered are expensive (fencing) or finicky (fishing line, which I have witnessed work first hand, but have also read can be hit or miss). The smell-based deterrents I have read about also seem to be hit-or-miss. However including a living deterrent on the homestead (like a Pyrenees-Akbash 😎) could not only fulfill the needs I have to protect the produce, but be another being to love and be part of our family.

Very thought provoking and relevant for me Ben, thank you!

One follow up Q about the tall fence: is this for the deer or for the dog(s)?

Anne Miller wrote:Not knowing anything about your past life experiences. I would suggest taking some business/accounting courses if you have not done so.

Most of the family/small businesses that I know of that have failed was due to a lack of common accounting practices.

Management is another common business failure.

Hiring an accountant to handle the finances is another option though I am a hands-on type of person who wants control of how I handle my affairs.

Hi again Anne, thank you for sharing 🙂

I'm a bit of a data nerd, lots of experience with numbers. However I have minimal experience in business accounting. I did do a basic accounting course in college, but after hearing your perspective, I think it'd be worth it to take another refresher or course. I'm thinking of perhaps taking a free Coursera class or one of MIT's free Opencourseware classes.

I relate with wanting to do this hands-on. There's certain things I prefer professionals do--like fix my car or build the foundation of our (yet to be built) house. However accounting and marketing for my farm are two things I'm inexperienced at that I'd like to become adept at myself... Maybe taking courses and receiving mentorship and pointers from professionals, but not often hiring professionals to do it for me.

A follow up Q for you:

Would you mind elaborating a bit on the common kinds of accounting and management failures you've seen? This may help me focus on common errors, and it could help others too.