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What is Hide Glue?

Hide glue is a traditional animal-based adhesive made from the collagen found in bones, skins, and tendons. Hide glue is incredibly strong, reversible, and non-toxic.  It has been used by woodworkers and artisans for thousands of years

What else is Hide Glue called?
Animal glue, protein glue, rsg, rabbit skin glue, Cabinetmaker’s / Carpenter’s glue,

There is also Fish Glue (Isinglass) which is made in a similar way, but is useable at room temperature and is more easily dissolved in water once cured.  

When do we use hide glue?

When used as a glue, Hide glue produces a strong but rigid glue.  It's excellent for musical instruments as it produces a superior sound to modern plastic based glues.

Hide glue is also used in "sizing" for preparing canvas for oil painting in the pre-industrial method.  Sizing protects the fibres from the oil paint which is then followed by a coat of gesso to protect the paint from the fibres.  


How do we get Hide Glue ready to use?

These days we can buy hide glue as granules, flakes, or flat sheets, which have an indefinite shelf life if kept dry. We dissolved in water, heat and apply warm, typically around 60 °C (140 °F).

Warmer temperatures destroy the strength of hide glue.  Glue pots specifically for hide glue are difficult to find these days.  Instead, a double boiler setup with a smaller inner pot for the hide glue (maybe with a lid to store it for next time) seems to be most common.

One may also leave a glue pot in a bowl of hot water, which will also keep the glue warm for shorter periods of time.




Can I just buy Hide Glue in a bottle like normal glue?

Yes.  Brown glue often needs warmth to work.  Titebond makes a liquid hide glue that can work at room temperature.

Does it really smell bad?  Like really bad?  Or are they just being fussy?

Sort of bad, but only while wet and warm—sort of wet-dog flavor of bad.

How do I undo Hide Glue?

Get it warm to reactivate or wet to desolve it.  Very old glue can be brittle and often scraped off easier than soaked.

What are the benefits of hide glue?

Hide glue is easily reversable with the application of heat, water, or both.  This is also the major drawback in some situations.  

Being reversable, it's good for things that we might want to repair like guitars, violins, chairs, and the like.  Unlike plastic and PVA glues, we don't have to clean the old join perfectly before the new application of glue as the new glue will reactivate traces of the old hide glue.

When don't I want to use hide glue?

Anything subject to heat or moisture.  Bugs can also be attracted to hide glue in some situations.

Hide glue also has a shorter open time than many modern glues - the open time depends on how long it can stay warm rather than time. However, when the glue is watered down enough, it will stay pliable at room temperature and only set when the water within dissipates.

Some techniques take advantage of the short open time and ease of reactivation.  They will put a bead of glue in place, let it dry, then reactivate with a hot knife when it comes time to glue the joint.


Permies threads about using hide glue:

Natural Glues for Lutherie and Other forms of Finer Woodworking
glueing leather together naturally
PEP - making hide glue flakes

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I enjoy making ancient weapons, bows and arrows, slings, atlatls and anything else I'm curious about. One of the materials I have used is hide glue and I'm very impressed with it's qualities especially when combined with dried tendon. I have only used hide glue that I bought and while that was a great introduction to this wonderful stuff I want to learn how to make my own and to expand my knowledge about which hide glues fit which jobs. I want to try laminating wood with hide glue in the future as well as making a special decorative plaster mimicking marble (called scagliola) which uses "animal glue". So any knowledge sharing will be enthusiastically accepted.
 
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SkillCult's YouTube channel is excellent. He has a whole playlist of beautiful videos on making hide glue:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL60FnyEY-eJCPd_eQyiP4JE6RLtCgmNxE

 
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Thanks for sharing that.

I've embedded the first video from the playlist here.

 
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What qualities am i looking for when choosing a glue pot?
 
r ransom
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A very interesting video on how liquid hide glue (like a squeeze bottle of ready to use glue) compares to pva glue.  When to use one or the other, and why hide glue is better in most situations



Some of the comments are especially interesting as they suggested pva glue can cause trouble, reacting poorly to some wood (rosewood was mentioned) and leave a resistance that prevents paint and stain adhering to the wood.  Towards the end of the video, he does a demonstration of what this looks like.
 
r ransom
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Question.  
When making wooded objects, do you plan a failure point?  

For example, when sewing, we often make the thread slightly less strong than the fabric, because if the thread brakes, the fix is simple.  If the fabric breaks, it's very unpleasant to repair.  It's going to break eventually... probably years later... so why not make the repair easy?

In old books, they talk about glue being the failure point if the item is used in anger, as it's easiest to repair.  But modern youtubers seem to think it is better if the glue is stronger than the wood.

What are your thoughts?

 
r ransom
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No nonsense approach to hot hide glue in a musical instrument repair context (violin, guitar, piano...)

What do the different numbers mean?

Easy ratio water to granules

Warning about temperature and overcooking

Using a wax melter as a warming bath for glue in a glass jar.

Warning about glue going mouldy after reactivated, so either use often or don't make too much at one time.

I wonder if freezing is an option?

Additives to extend working time like urea, although it sacrifices some strength.  Not enough to be a worry if careful.


Touches briefly on liquid hide glue and that it's not-non-toxic.  Hot hide glue is non-toxic.  He eats some but it doesn't taste good.
 
r ransom
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Hide glue vs synthetic in context of a violin maker and repair



Spoilers, hide glue is his preferred glue for most situations
 
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I've used rabbit skin glue, but for custom framing and gilding. It has been used for centuries both for making "compo", which is the sculpting material for frame detailing, and as an adhesive for the metal leaf in gilding.

There are easier, more modern options but for restoration or historically accurate reproduction, it is still used.
Compo is still the best option for getting sculptural details to stay on wood. It's mostly a mix of clays, fine sawdust and the glue. It's hard, stays stuck to the wood and holds up really well. It's fairly water resistant as well, once set. I've seen pieces that are 200+ years old and they are still solid.

I've only used the purchased fine pellets, never handled homemade. For keeping it warm, we used a crockpot on low, with water in it as a warmer. Just had a spacer on the bottom so the pot didn't get direct heat from the crock. They are pretty cheap and easy to find in the thrift stores so I recommend just having a craft specific one. The smell wasn't terrible, but I wouldn't want it on food.
 
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What does hide glue NOT stick to?  What can we put on the table to protect it from the glue?
 
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First expierence with titebond liquid hide glue.  (Not hot hide glue)

Easy to apply squeeze from the bottle like pva wood glue.  But the liquid hide glue behaves different.

Liquid hide glue is runnier and tacks up pretty quickly, but stays tacky and able to glue longer.  Because it's runnier, the joint with liquid hide glue seems to need less glue and the joints are closer fitting.  Pva adds a fraction of a mm to the joint (or the glue fails), which is annoying for projects with tight tolerances.  Hide glue does better here.

Liquid hide glue smell is more mild than pva glue, but does remind us that there are voc and strong solvents used.

The joint seems better if I can thinly spread the hide glue across both surfaces.  It seems okay if the first surface tacks up a bit as the active glue seems to reactivate it.

Clean up is easier.  The glue bead for the liquid hide glue remains tacky and easy to clean off with warm water for about 12 to 24 hours (temp and humidity depending) and becomes brittle and easy to remove later.

Tests with wiping some liquid hide glue on a damp rag onto some wood shows minimal resist against water based stain. By second coat of stain, it's indistinguishable from regular grain.  Pva failed majorly in this area.

So far I have yet to test end to side glueing or joints that have a lot of pressure.  

Clamping time on the bottle of liquid hide glue is 30 min (no stress on the joint for 24), this seems situation dependent.  Some seem to need minimal clamping, others need a good 4 hours.
 
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Making hide glue from dog chew toy (raw hide)
 
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To prevent sticking to the workspace, there are a few ways to go. If there is room for it, a piece of glass, ( with the edges taped to reduce cutting risks, if the edges aren't ground) or a chunk of polished stone will work. The glue can stick but it's easy to scrape off with a razor blade.
For cases where fast and easy changes and movement is needed, the Ikea non-stick silicone baking mats are hard to beat. ( I haven't priced then recently but they were very cheap in the past) You can also thrift any silicone mat or larger dish for this too, since it's not for food use.
 
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