Rob Read

Hi Jill,

First off, do what is comfortable for you. For me, I don't consider limited white mold an issue in most cases. Many foods (such as traditionally made sausages) actually have molds in close contact with foods, sometimes even on purpose. Usually the mold is washed off, but there is  a fermented tomato sauce I make some years where the instructions specifically say to let it mold on top, then stir the mold in once a day, and it's fantastic (both for taste, and how long it keeps on the shelf without canning - years). Molds of colours other than white have a much worse reputation, and while I don't know if there are any white molds that are poisonous, some other coloured ones quie probably are, based on what I've read.

What I would do would be to wash or throw out the ones with white mold, and assess which ones have not been impacted, and consume those.  If the mold has discoloured the nuts, or they don't look that appetizing, I would toss them (hopefully to chickens or pigs). If the nuts look really bad, and not food-safe (smell could help you) I suggest composting them.

Also - it wasn't clear if you're just talking about on the external shells, or on the nuts themselves. If on the shells - wash, and no problem. If inside the nut when you crack it - toss the nut (not to animals). If some limited mold in nuts already cracked, and they were good when cracked, probably wash and consume. If the last one was the case, look at how you are storing the nuts, too. Ideally they are best stored at fridge or freezer temperature to prevent rancidity, which would also prevent or slow mold in many cases.

At the end of the day, do what is comfortable to you. Would you serve the nuts to someone with health issues?  A baby? Someone elderly? If not, don't serve them to yourself either.

I've been installing a UK-style hedgerow in Southwestern Ontario at our farm over the past 3 years. It's quite long, serving as the inside perimeter of about 4 acres of field. I will not go into detail about why and how much I love hedgerows, but based on how many hours I've put into (attempting!) to create one, it should be evident!

I worked with a local guy (Jim Jones) out of Guelph, who does consulting on hedgerows. He studies them for a living, and I got some great ideas from him.

I planted two staggered rows, with each row having about 16" between trees. I chose 60% thorny species, and 40% other types. I spread these species out in the staggered pattern, but in retrospect, I think this only really matters for the thorney species, to make sure you get thorny coverage (which you really only need for animals).

For the thorny species, I chose a mix of osage orange and honey locust. Although I couldn't find any confirmed information on honey locust used this way, I've seen how it responds to wounds, and am fairly sure it will respond in the desired way. I would have used more osage orange, but had trouble with seed germination and supply, and funding (it's not currently native to my region, though fossil evidence shows it once was).

I would suggest against using black locust in this context, unless you are prepared for the suckers. Black locust sends up suckers very very far from the base of the tree, so unless you have a plan for that... I love them in many other contexts.

For the other trees, I used chestnuts, hazels, mulberries, and serviceberries (aka juneberries/saskatoon berries). I also used nannyberries and red ozier dogwood, which are for berries and basket material.

Lessons, some learned the hard way:

1. plant over serveral years, if possible, both spring and fall. Trees will die, and by planting at a bunch of times, you won't lose all of them if there is a problem with drought or too much water.

2. Use tree guards on every tree, as soon as planted. I cut down white spiral ones to the size of the tree.

3. Try to plant trees already above tall grass level. This isn't always possible, but weeding a hedgerow to protect the trees is very time consuming work. For reasons of labour saving, I mostly planted whatever-size stock I got, rather than planting them in the garden, letting them grow, then digging and planting them later. Planting them twice is also a huge amount of work, and I regretted the ones I did that with. Especially as they were only a little bit bigger from spring to fall.

4. At the time of establishment, if you can have a lot of mulch, such as rolling out large round bales of spoiled hay, that can help. Remulching by hand at my scale hasn't been possible.

5. Some areas will just be harder than others to get trees established. Is it too wet for your desired species? Is a really tough groundcover already established in this area? Try to listen, by looking at what else is growing nearby, and consider transplanting some of those, or getting more of the same species for that section of the hedge.

It will be several years before it is ready to be laid for the first time. I'm still planting it! About 200 honey locust going in this fall.

With annual pruning at the top and sides (look into detail on this, as technique has a pretty big impact), it should only be about once per generation that it has to be relaid.

Although I imagine you are well underway with this project, being as mine has been a truly multi-year project, I thought I would share some details.

Good luck!

Not to suggest incorrectness in a previous post, but I have experience that some poplars do start very easily from cuttings. I don't have experience with aspens, or all types of poplar. These were hybrid poplars, intended for exceedingly fast growth. The cuttings were able to be frozen in the freezer even, to wait until the ground could be ready for them in spring.

In wet spots, they had a really hard time establishing, but in other places, such as in garden soil, well - don't plant them in your garden unless you have to. Some of them kept coming back from root fragments for years, even though the area was tarped in winter, and managed as an annual veg garden during the season. Not the end of the world, or as crazy as bamboo, but make sure you want them where you plant them. They can make very big roots very fast.

That said, as others pointed out, they are short-lived, and even when they are not cut down, they sucker VERY muchly. Be especially careful with them near septic beds, which is the reason I need to cut down a few this fall. They are starting to die, and are suckering in a really extended area, getting close to my weeping bed for the septic system.

I am going with inoculating the logs with mushroom spawn, mostly Oyster and Reishi.

I recommend Field and Forest as an excellent source of spawn, and information. They have some really good strains of various mushroom species there, and some tools that can speed up the work, such as angle grinder adaptors and bits. For myself, I decided to use a plunge router for my mushroom inoculating this coming fall.

Some basics to remember if you do want to inoculate: the time of year they are cut matters a lot. You want to ideally cut them when 1/2-3/4 of the leaves have fallen, and temps are therefore low enough to really slow the spores from other species of fungi, to help get yours established. That is one of the major things that can go wrong - non-target fungi have already invisibly taken hold of the log before you even put your target spawn in.

Next, wait 2 weeks after cutting the trees - before that, the tree has a natural 'immune system' which reduces the chances of establishing the mushrooms you want. After that, the risk of other spores colonizing the tree naturally increases.

These details may make using the poplars you mention not appropriate for a mushroom project, but something to consider the next time a poplar comes down at the right season.

That said, these are not rules carved in stone.  If you have the time and money to experiment, trying to inoculate in less than ideal conditions could still be good experience to gain, and prove that exceptions are possible.

Hi Nate,

I am not in your region (I'm in Southwestern Ontario, Canada), but have a fair amount of experience with hazels.

I suggest getting your feet wet slowly, as it seems you are planning to do.

First, I'll give a shout-out to Mark Shepard's nursery, Forest Ag. Though their Zone 4 Wisconsin climate is different, their blight resistance is very strong. He also has highly blight resistant chestnuts available. Both are in bulk bundles of 25. I have ordered them every year for over ten years, and the quality is excellent, and the number that succumb to blight is very low (I would guess less than 5% for chestnuts, and even less for hazels). They are a mixed gene-pool started from all the blight resistance programs from multiple universities about 25 years ago, and he rogues out all the ones that don't do well. You'd have to ask them if they've had customers in your region who had success with your climate.

One tiny bit of wisdom I've noticed: planting some trees every year is generally good, instead of planting them all in one shot. This gives the maximum possibility of getting a season with ideal climate conditions for establishment. Some years are just not that good for trees to get started, such as early spring drought years, or heavy rain winters.

If you do go the way of creating a system that will work with animals as well (such as pigs, sheep, cattle), get to know those animals the best you can, as soon as you can. With all the invasives, animals could be a good early thing to try, to help clear them (making sure they are all edible for the species of animals you are considering).

I have rows of hazels fenced 50' apart on my field to keep my animals from eating them. Expect your system will sometimes fail, and you will lose trees. Be prepared to either monitor closely (ie. notice they are eating your trees and make a course correction as soon as possible to prevent further damage), or to replant heavily year by year. Probably in reality, both. A hazel that's been heavily eaten does not automatically die, but it is sometimes very weakened, and can die, depending on how recently it was planted, how well established it is, and what time of year the damage happened. If coppiced at the right age and season, hazels are highly adapted to thrive, but repeated grazing at the wrong time of year can just kill the tree very quickly.

Pigs - they root heavily and can destroy pasture within days - you must have a plan to mitigate this natural behavior, such as moving them very quickly through the system, and not having them on pasture when the ground is wet and easy to turn. I am trying kunekune pigs, which don't root (I've confirmed this), and can apparently thrive on hay and pasture (I have not confirmed this to my satisfaction yet).

Sheep - every time they got out (and they will) my blood pressure went through the roof, because they just want to go and eat the trees as fast as possible, especially in the fall, it seems. Between lambs being small, and wool insulating them from electric fencing, and their ability to jump and weasel under things, they WILL get out. Trust me. Goats are like that too, except even more so. Be prepared for that, and the anxious energy sheep bring.

Cattle - so far, the best fit for me. They respect a much less elaborate electric fence, and aren't as hungry for trees, and will eat them more casually, instead of systematically, so there's more time to save the trees, if they get out (which, let's face it, everything does, eventually.) Also, I have found their energy, slow and deliberate, more calming to be around.

Hope that helps.

Hi Sam,

You remind me of a past version of me, who got into permaculture, and especially forest gardening, not long before our first child came along (who is now 13). That said, I live in Canada, which is a pretty different place, though we did live in Wakefield, UK for 8 months (in 2002-03).

One of the most difficult, but also most transformative things I learned in the early years was to accept, and eventually embrace, the principle outlined by David Holmgren of "Seek Small Slow Solutions". It was actually something from Martin Crawford that really got me. When trying to establish my first forest garden, I had 'weeds' come in. A major one was creeping charlie/gil over ground (which is a ground cover here in Canada, but is originally European, I think). In one of Martin's books, he actually had it profiled as something that was used in the past to flavour beer, as an alternative to hops. It's not so much that I planned to make beer, but something about even this plant that my brain had strongly categorized at the time as a weed could have a usage really started me on the path to where I am now, which is to accept the help of whatever weed-friends that show up as much as I can, and only try to diminish them so they can collaborate with whatever I want to nudge the place towards growing. (Ie. Keeping grass short near young trees.)

In terms of actually speaking to your question about securing land to work with, here are a bunch of ideas which may or may not be of use to you. Many of them may have a flavour of seeking small slow solutions, which is one of my favourite flavours.

1. See how you can get involved right now, in terms of your capacity to commit. Whatever you are doing, that has something to do with that path towards a forest garden, can, and likely will, be helpful. Be prepared to be patient. Then when you get there, it will actually probably be somewhat surprisingly casual. "Oh, right, this used to be a dream...now it's reality." At least, that's the way it's sometimes been for me - from an apartment dweller in Toronto, to now living on a 50 acre permaculture farm. Something I did early on was get involved with a local Transition Town. I worked on my skills at facilitating meetings, and working on a committee - which does not sound like forest gardening, but was part of the mix. This can also be a way to meet some folks. The one we were in had a few seniors/pensioners in it - see below.

2. Seek out people who are willing to share their land for your forest gardening practice/projects. Though I have ended up planting trees and spending large amounts of labour on land I no longer live near, or even have access to, as long as you are fairly sure they won't get cut down immediately after you are involved, it can still be a good thing. Leaving the fruit trees at my previous home 7 years ago was very hard, even though we sold to a herbalist who would enjoy them, let alone the dozens of trees at a farm that's far away from where I am, and the trees are probably not even being noticed by anyone. They are still there (the ones that made it). Ways to find people who might have land to share (or eventually gift, or sell to you) include getting involved with clubs of like-minded people, and driving around and looking for 'neglected' areas, such as disused lots, or people with larger estates that look sort of 'run down'. There's an idea from Joel Salatin that has stayed with me, which is to look for neglected pastures (ie. filling slowly with trees), and knock on the door of who owns it. He said, in his experience, it is often a little old lady, who would love to see the pastures used for cattle again, but there's no one in the family to do it anymore. Obviously in the UK this is going to take a different form, since there are not just acres of pasture lying around, but look for signs of land that someone is not 'doing' something with, but is not really a functioning natural area either. You may want to look at Paul Wheaton's forum pages/book about SKIP, which is about gaining the skills to care for land that someone may want to see if they are going to let you work on their land.

3. Get used to making lots of mistakes, if this is new to you. This is not a bad thing, but it's okay to feel bad about it, especially when you are getting started. I've lost more trees in a year than most people have planted in their lifetime. It's just part of it. Observe all the things that you think may have gone wrong, and look for solutions for the future so more of the trees you plant make it. For me, this includes planting the trees where you can casually observe them often when they are getting established, and most importantly, putting on tree guards the same day as planting (every time!), and having really great communication with tractor operators working near your trees.

That's it from me for now. Best of luck on your journey.

I love all the kickstarters, and support them all with $$, even if I don't always get around to watching the movie! (Because, mostly, of doing so much permies stuff and having limited screen-time.)

I suspect that one reason for less interest in rocket mass heaters is related to a couple of things which are big for lots of people: safety (not a 'standards approved' product, like wood stoves); can't buy it ready made (a serious draw back as you drop to more casual permies, or permies with different focuses.)

For instance, last year we bought a wood stove. Not because I don't think rocket mass heaters are awesome, and not because I don't think I could do it (I've even taken a workshop with Ernie and Erica), but because in the scope of my year, and other stuff going on, it made more sense to throw money at a manufacturer and do the chimney labour myself, rather than do all the labour myself, and face one of the other big things: bureaucracy. Is is insurable? Will my rates go up? Does my municipality even allow it? Will the fire department put me on a naughty list?

Other limitations that came up for us: Will my house be able to hold all the weight? Will my partner think it looks ugly?

Of course, none of these problems are insurmountable, but they all take time to figure out, and if your top projects of the season or the next few seasons are based more in planting trees, or consulting, or livelihoods - it can get to be too much.

Also, some other reasons we didn't do it: the work of finding all the materials, many of which come from different places, and if you want to do it on the cheap, you have to find more unusual places to seek out the supplies. This can be really time consuming, depending on where you live. Also, if you don't have access to earth moving equipment, even accessing enough of the cob materials is a bunch of phone calls and sometimes big delivery charges.

Anyway, all the said, I think the Low Tech Lab style ones are great. If you are a little bit into five or six things being featured, it's worth it to support, even if you are not that into the other ten things.

A couple of suggestions to get more people on board: keep some basic stuff for efficient or awesomely cool gardening, and small animal stuff in every video - that feeds newbies, and people still living in houses with small yards, or rentals, etc. Keep stuff like herbal medicine in there - a big audience for that, so many casual fans. Also, the DIY things with plans attract a certain crowd, which is quite large.  Keep wicked cool stuff like rocket forges that are more advanced, but appeal to a slightly different crowd.

One thing to consider with (apparently) dropping interest: can the movie/kickstarter process be slightly more efficient, or somehow cost less or take less time due to experience of those involved?

Is there enough interest in a bonus product that is practically raw footage (so not much to produce), but costs a chunk of change (because of it being exclusive). I think you've already done this in the past.

Nothing more at the moment, but best of luck, and look forward to supporting as an early bird tomorrow. Got to get back to potato harvest.

A little update, because I just got an apple on this post:

I can confirm that planting out turnips in pots and transplanting can work, at least some that I transplanted developed well.

I planted a lot of Eastham Turnip second generation that I'd saved, and it's developing OK, though not getting huge like I would hope. I've had another year of very high precipitation over the summer, which is not historically the average, but has been for the past three years in a row.

This year Tokyo Market was by far my best producing turnip. Seed was from Quail Seed, who I highly suggest as a seed supplier. https://www.quailseeds.com/store/p129/Tokyo_Market_Turnip.html

Overall, turnip and rutabaga have not performed well enough here for me to consider them as a staple carbohydrate crop, but I'll keep trying a bit longer, and see if anything comes up that works for that purpose.

Thanks for that Jamie - that's the first place I've seen Bigger Better Butternut, and hope they have it for next spring.

A friend found a place in Canada that had Goldini (https://www.seedtoseed.ca/), and I was finally able to get some growing this year, and will try to save seed. I started my own replica of Carol's Goldini work because I couldn't find Goldini, but I'm only one year in, and not sure if I'll continue now that I have access to the original. I saved Candystick Dessert Delicata seed last year, and Beefy Resilient Grex bean last year, and am increasing my stock of them. Both show improvements this season in my garden, since I took seed from the few that survived a very harsh season here last year. Oregon Homestead Sweet Meat was a disappointment for me in that season, producing very few fruit, and I missed the opportunity to isolate it, despite watching closely.

A note about Magic Manna Flour Corn in my region (Southwestern Ontario, in North Eastern North America) : I can't wait to try this corn for its culinary purposes, but it is very vulnerable to raccoons. My two other corns this season (Harmony Grain Corn and Jewel Popcorn) have so far been untouched, but the Magic Manna, with it's lower cobs and less stiff stems, is slowly being devoured. Not sure if it's also just the one the raccoons found first (inside a fenced garden with no sign how it's getting in, no less). This is not the first year I've had this problem with it, and I thought that active trapping earlier in the season and fencing would prevent it this year, but no luck.

Good luck all in continuing Carol's legacy!

An adult male peacock (Yang) came with our farm when we moved here 6 years ago. About 4 years ago we bought a couple of peahens, because we love the presence of them around the farm. The other yield for us, other than joy, is the feathers, which we collect when they fall out, and usually offer as a bouquet.

Ours had already adapted to being safe on the farm, finding a good roosting spot up in an oak tree that could be accessed with multiple big flapping hops, and going in the barns (a bit reluctantly) in the height of winter. I was at first amazed that they could survive our winters here in Ontario, but they seem completely fine.

In terms of diet, ours are offered the mix of whole soaked/fermented corn, wheat, and oats we feed the other poultry once in the morning, and forage for the rest of their food. Ours eat cat food like crazy, and will scare cats off their bowls if they are fed in the open. We've not set up a little cat hut using an upside-down rubbermaid storage container with a hole in the side that cats can get in. I would agree that a higher protein game bird mix would be a good choice if you are buying food for just them, and they have limited forage access. They are indeed like turkeys in many ways, including basic diet - a lot of foraging for plants and insects.

They absolutely LOVE any greens in the cabbage family. In fact, this year we sold off all but our original male, because every time I'd turn my head, they would have eat every cabbage seedling in the garden - inside a 6' high fenced garden. We went down to just one female first, and she sort of disappeared for awhile, and we figured she was on a nest. But then every few days I'd see her - and she'd be in the garden nipping stuff! They also love pepper leaves, and will completely defoliate peppers, especially small ones, so this was a constant point of stress for me. I clipped her wings very short, hoping she wouldn't be able to jump the 6' fence anymore.

Then a couple of days later, my daughter found out where her nest was: INSIDE the fenced garden!

That was the final straw, and we sold her to someone who will give her a welcome home.

One last point I wanted to mention, and the other reason we got rid of most of ours, is that during the time our ducks were on nests, I noticed a behavior that was very negative to successful duck nests. It seemed to be mostly young males that did this, but I believe the adult male may have done it too in the past - but he's a bit easier to exclude from places because of the long tale. What they would do was work in teams to get a duck off her nest of eggs she was incubating, then take an egg to eat. And we're talking like 20 days into sitting. So - we'd just find these half eaten eggs all over the place with peck holes. Even worse, sometimes they kept the ducks off long enough that the whole pile of eggs was threatened with being too cold. We were ending up with nests that started with 20-26 eggs, and usually hatches of 14-18 (or sometimes as high as 22), that were down to 6-8 in some cases - and no time to let the ducks sit again in the season.

Just something to consider if the peafowl live near other poultry. We've never had a problem with them eating raw eggs. So I joke that they like their good heated up...

We'd be open to the possibility, and could have a conversation to see if the mix of activities proposed could work for the space and our farm.

That said, as of now (July 2022), the apartment is currently rented on a month by month basis for an unknown duration. When it opens again, we'll re-advertise it. If you want to have a conversation now with a bit more detail about what you would have in mind for coworking, feel free to email me at readrobread at gmail.com.