David Williams

Dan i think your logic is a little out of balance .... I make biodiesel and it's used by those who landscape using diesel machines .... I'm not sure where Sepp's fuel is from , but it's 100% possible to do it in a manner that is "Permie"

Sorry for my inactivity in recent months ...
Firstly let me start by answering the post with "It's the Wheaton Scale" he can make it what ever he damn well wants !!! That being said ....
With the responses I have seen are vague and cant just "box" someone in... And I think with some of the replies A person could be on multiple levels at the same time....
What i have done
I haven't posted recently because in my "absent time" I set up a face book page with near 400 people, On this page we inform people of their choices, Discuss ideas, give them alternatives, Post pictures of their projects and progress.....
We only focus on the positives while understanding the negatives off solutions rather than harp on the "Bad shyt" ..... Empowering people in Suburban area's to make change .....

I have doubled my chicken flock , Quadrippled my growing space, Made several upgrades to the house including reducing the power expense and CFL's ect ... Better utilize the resources at hand and gearing up for larger scale home production .....
Currently upgrading my AP system to 4X the volume and production aswell ....and looking at setting up a 3m3 anaerobic biodigester at home ..... I now hugel kulture..... And i have developed a hate for the term "organic"
What i haven't done
I have not had the resources to invest in wind or solar .... I have not done completely away with CFL's , I have never undertaken a certified course ...

I think Dale Hodgins nailed it with "Paul's scale is heavily slanted toward food, as would be expected on this sort of forum. My personal scale has more to do with total environmental footprint and my affect on the footprints of others. Some of how I affect how others behave has come from me supplying them with reclaimed resources, some has come from educating them, with cost savings being the motivating goal, and finally, I have cost the bad guys massive amounts of money and caused some change in behavior as a result."

Through my own actions I have stopped several hundred acres from being sprayed and educated and opened the door for those who are "The new farmers" , Empowered those who felt powerless , Offered solutions ... And not looked down on anyone either for being "crazy" (high on the wheaton scale) or belittled them (being lower on the wheaton scale) ... This is by far more achievement i could do on my own personal 613m2 ... I support my local farmers , not by "Buy a Bale" keeping a flawed system afloat.... If they have bad practices and cant survive even with subsidies they dont deserve to "farm" .... Those who have embraced a more "Permie" approach gets my $$$$
Peace and Love Dave OXOXOXO

@ Jason , Thank you so much for not only taking the time to research this and for providing links to your points , greatly appreciated, I don't take it as an "Attack" in any form, It's wonderful to understand another's thought processes and understandings, Especially when we come from such different cultures While i'm not refuting those figures on costs of manufacture (BTU's) they do not factor in the mining the and acquisition of new materials, I live 2 hours drive from "Portland" where "Portland" cement actually originated... they also have 2 coal power stations nearby ... In-which a brick making company is making bricks from the fly-ash ...And Australia is one of the largest exporters of Bauxite (Alumina)..... I would like point out though that the figures you have linked only point to cost of manufacture , not cost of sourcing nor cost of transport nor the footprint left behind from doing so , Clay is usually sourced on site and therefore a lot more economical than whats stated in those links , Silica largely trucked in.. I 100% agree that there is a 30% power saving from recycled glass in heat value , but also glass and aluminium can be recycled an indefinite amount of times and transport costs are greatly reduced as they come for the consumers who have disposed of them..... and close to it's redistribution point .... thus increasing energy savings an environmental costs.....
Lets look at 1 tonne of glass
1000kg > 700kg > 490kg > 343kg > 240kg > 168kg > 117kg ect
This is how much product is reused per cycle from that original 1 tonne of glass that's recycled
And to simply state it's a 30% saving is misleading , as it's 30% saved each cycle (BTU's), That's just energy costs .... It's also used 90%-70% less external inputs of silica , Less mining and transport and associated CO2 footprint for those actions, 90% more beach left

Our state doesn't have the cash for cans or bottles system in place , though our neighboring states do......
Sorry this was a quick post and i have no supporting links , but i'm 10 mins late taking kids to school XD .... will edit with links when i have a chance , but is easily verifiable

It's well known they employ forum trolls and media disinformation tactics to control the masses , They have a multi-billion dollar operation to protect, They make huge sums paying off politicians and government services to protect their interests, I use Diatomaceous earth a lot for my gardening , but i still have concerns in it's use in industry , Fair enough it's non toxic to humans if not beneficial , but it is still mined and takes millions of years to form, and kills indiscriminately , so in my eye's it's not perfect by any measure and is finite as a resource (correct me if i am misinformed on this).... Since the industry can patent chemicals , and DE cant be , they will always have more control and therefore more say, So employing people for disinformation keeping the masses on their side makes perfect business sense ... while i am sure the bulk of us permies wont like it, It's the nature of the beast as it currently stands ...
Peace and Love Dave oxoxox

I'm sure this will not be a popular post , but needs to be posted none-the-less, While popular thinking is re-using Glass or plastic bottles and tin cans is "green" into bottle walls you are actually removing these recyclable elements out of the recycling chain, most glass when recycled is added to 10-30% new glass and re-molten, as is the case with aluminium cans , removing these from the chain is actually increasing carbon due to the need to manufacture new glass and cans ... with less material recycled , something needs to fill the void keeping up with demand... Far less energy goes into recycling production than new material production.... Clever alternatives do become available once this is understood , for eg using car windshields as these are laminated and hardened as such are non recyclable but are reclaimable, some plastics are not able to be recycled but can be locked into walls, behind enough material so they don't out-gas.... Aerosol cans can't be recycled, Glassware can't be recycled (tempered) eg cookware, All can be used effectively in bottle walls, shredded paper cant be recycled but can be used in papercrete... i know a lot of this doesn't fit the "colored bottle wall" as well , and there is still a place for that , but in places where it's not so important , please look into other options, your contribution may not be noticed , but the environment will thank you accordingly
Peace and Love Dave OXOXOX

Does the same or similar laws exist for "Pets" ? Maybe you'd have a petshop / aquarium nearby who might place the order for you for a small mark-up, or maybe you know of a land holder who would travel with you when buying the fish/livestock ? Maybe there is a process where you can apply for an exemption, and take that proof with you when purchasing ... Just throwing idea's out there , I'd never suggest breaking any laws , But a lot of creative people succeed looking at the same problem from a different angle, The old adage "There's many ways to skin a cat...."

Welcome to permies !!, may i ask what's the issue about permits? what type of fish are you looking at growing out ? I'm sure there are many in this vast community whom would have experience and guidance to give freely, Some of whom may be aware of your local by-laws ect

Awesome thread guys keep it going !!!
A few suggestions that you can use if you like
A) drop the dimmer switch and get a Pulse width modulator (PWM) $10 on ebay they are far superior for brushed motors (it's what i use with a Makita blower) for heavier gear, OR use a foot pedal/motor setup from a sewing machine with a drum fan (squirrel cage), easy to set up and stops when not in use
B) using a "hood" over your forge keeps fumes out of your face and a small portion can be use via venturii into your intake , to pre-warm the incoming air
C) I use a small graphite crucible and melt aluminium in it (old cans ect) and use it to sand cast items (using degasser's and flux)
D) Great little series of books called "Workshop Practice Series" , 44 books on basically everything any blacksmith, machinist to forger could wish for in easy to understand 100 page-ish books
E) Youtube has a lot of people doing things just like you guys are doing and can be a wealth of information (both successes and failures) and completely free
F) Make your own tools , anything from tongs to hammers can be made from easily salvaged goods
In my experience , There is no BETTER craft than blacksmithing or foundry work, It is the foundation of all trades within society
Even in your failures you will find success , learn from your mistakes and plow forward, It's the most time honored skills any human can possess !!!

Ok i have done a lot more research on this topic ( For Australians / Law ) While you can own a still once you have received a licence to distill, you have to pay a 38.143c/ltr excise tax on the alcohol produced , but the government gives a return of 38.143c/ltr (EPG)... if using NO petroleum denaturant (ie Methanol , Propanol) ... The still basically needs it's own building (lockable) and consent for inspection needs to be given..... Transport of fuel needs an application (waiting on an answer if this includes car fuel tank) .... Huge amount of record keeping, and waiting to hear if "Feints" are classed as a denaturant.... will post when i get more info ..... Location/Set-up would also need to follow ALL HACCP protocols, MSDS ect , has a $500 Liciencing fee for the ATO , and is a state one of between $75-$3500-ish production dependant ... While i think the laws are kind of restrictive , i do think it could be done, although more suited to someone who has a greater need to do so than i at this time.. I currently have Blume's book on order and think it should be an interesting read !!!
Peace and Love Dave oxoxoxo

This is just a thought for anyone who might see similar issues with similar set-ups, Using a TEG Generator that runs your pump wouldn't need any outside power , when you apply heat to one side(outgoing pipe from boiler) , and air or water cooled other side (incoming pipe to boiler for eg) the pump would engage automatically , so this would never be an issue due to being solid state electronics ....
Peace and Love Dave oxoxox