B Henderson

***Update*** 3/30/14

Completed coat #2. Weather was about the same (Windy, Sunny, Warm but not Hot). The 2nd coat went on super fast so I was done in about 3 hours, instead of 4. I'm guessing that it went on fast because I had a smooth coat, versus the initial coat that sucked up all of the paint. Plus, I bought a different roller this time. This one was coated with Teflon so it didn't soak up the paint, just held it in its mass of fibers. This coat took just over 2 5-gal buckets, instead of 3.25 for the 1st coat.

When I was finished with the 2nd coat, I completed anothre unscientific test, placing my hand on an uncoated section in full sun and my other hand on a coated section. There was a significant different between the 2 temps (~130 vs cool to the touch, as if t were in the shade all day). I'm guessing there may have been an evaporative cooling effect going on so I am going to recheck it after it has cured for a few days and the heat really starts to kick in later in the week (85+ in FL this week already).

Next is looking at the AC bills from last year, same timeframe, versus the 2014 AC bills.

I can tell you that I put the solar film on my daughter's windows (SW corner of house...the HOT corner) and it made an immediate difference. After puting the 1st sheet on (S window, top panel) I was sweating. After adding the 3rd sheet (W window, top panel) I was able to actually feel the air moving from the AC...this was in July at 4:00 in the afternoon when the sun was full force thru the window. Over the next few days, I would compare the hallway, where the thermo is, and her bedroom. Before the film, during the really hot days, it would be about 78-80 in the hallway and probably at least 85 in her bedroom. After the film, they were the same temp...oh, and much less condensation dripping from the air vent on to our 60 year old wood floor. Not sure how we lived in this house as long as we have without the film.

Highly recommended, inexpensive ($50) and easy (1 hour) DIY project. Find it at Lowes

33703: Zone 10a: for all of the Florida/Arizona/S Cali/etc... permies who have the opposite "winter" as the rest of the US (OMG, when will this heat end! I cannot wait for January!)

3/16/14: Put the 1st coast of white elastomeric roof coating on the roof today. I have about 1500 sq ft of roof (950 sq ft house) and a rolled tar & asphalt roof no/little space in the roof for insulation. Crawl space is als uninsulated and the house is a 1960's era cinder block home. I am hoping this will make a significant difference in the heat gain during the summer and reduce the power bills ($300+ in the summer (May-Oct)). Not so much concerned about the heat lost during the winter since that really only lasts about 60 days anyway.

Here is what the 1st coat looks like. Definitely needs a 2nd coat. Went thru 3.25 buckets (5 gal @ $75/bucket) and it took about 4 hours of actual work time, not counting rehydration breaks, lunch and the break that I took when I almost fell off the roof. Went thru two 3/4 inch nap rollers.

Lessons Learned:
If you are painting near your iPod doc, move the iPod doc. Oh, also if you are wearing your running shoes becuase you didn't want to dig thru the garage for your muck shoes, don't expect them to be your running shoes for much longer. Oh yeah, and if you are working backward, make sure you have awareness of where the roof ends.

Totally unscientific test. This is what the roof over my porch looks like vs the coated roof. Not too dark but still picks up a LOT of heat. This side of the house is on the East side and gets nearly full sun until about 4:00 PM. At 2:30, when I was finished, I placed my right hand on the unpainted porch roof and my left hand on the 1st coat of paint on the portion of the roof I had done 3 hour prior. To me, there was about a 10 degree difference. Today, the weather was about 80, full sun and really windy (~20 mph all day). UV rating was probably about 6-7 out of 10. My guess is that during the summer, when it is 95 and the UV rating is a full 10, I might see a 20-30 degree difference, or more. I can tell you that when I was up on the roof last May painting my eves, I had to lay a towel down bucause putting my bare knees on the roof was way too hot...at 10 AM and only 2 hours of sunlight.

NOTE: this stuff needs to have a 24 hour dry period...I messed up and got up too late on Saturday and realized today (Sunday), after I was finished of course, that there is a 90% chance of rain in the PM hours on Monday. Hopefully, I won't see any damage or runoff of white tinted rainwater coming off the roof.

Update to come in a couple of weeks when the 2nd coast is on...

Interesting article from The Land Magazine from Summer of 2013. Talks about some of the misconceptions with Permaculture and splits the permie camps into 2 groups.
http://www.thelandmagazine.org.uk/sites/default/files/The%20Big%20Rock%20Candy%20Mountain.pdf

What group do you fall into?

Me, I fall into the "Smart Permaculture" group by age and views, although I cringe when I see Smart vs Cult, which could further divide the movement intp Purple and non-Purple (I like how Paul puts it). I am not a "prepper", in the current definition, and understand that money drives the marketplace, which then drives the society. I live in a urban/suburban environment and don't have more than a tenth of a acre of land to work with (although I would LOVE to have a couple of acres to play with), as does more than 50% of the world (and growing). I beleive that if we can spread the word about permaculture to the urban masses, that will have the greatest amount of impact for the effort. That is not saying that Paul, Geoff and the others that work on large tracts of land are no doing any good...those fine gentlemen/ladies are doing the pioneering work that we all can use to fix the future mess our kids are going to have to deal with.

Jocelyn Campbell wrote:Paul is one of the speakers at TEDx Whitefish (Montana) on Jan. 16, 2014.

What time?

Dale Hodgins wrote:I consider many non scientific dogmas to be silly and dangerous. Their purveyors do us all a disservice...

After reading this most of this thread, and I have to admit that I haven't finished my coffee yet this morning so I haven't fully digested the information, here's my stance...

I am a Project Manager by profession and gardener and cook by passion. I have discovered Permaculture within the last 12 months and I see a lot of comparisons between Project Management and Permaculture in the way that it is viewed by the rest of the world. When I tell someone that I am a Project Manager they look at me as if to say, "that's a real profession?" Project Managers are the hidden heroes of the largest of modern civilization's building projects. It's the men wearing the hardhats or the astronaut in the shuttle or the soldier with the new piece of equipment or the CEO of the tech startup that gets all the glory. Most PM's are OK with that but it is one of the reasons that the profession, in general, has a bit of a chip on its shoulder. The governing body, PMI, includes expansion of the profession to the respect level of other professions (aka law or medicine) as one of its main goals, and has a strict ethics statement to ensure that is done in the most positive light.

Just like with Permaculture, there are offshoots of the philosophies of Project Management, all of which can be positive and very useful when applied to the correct situation. Just like with Project Management, Permaculture is a philosophy that must be presented in the best light to be advanced to the masses (even more so with Permaculture). There are already people out there that insist that Permaculture is nothing more than organic farming with metaphysical elements, which could not be further from the truth. Permaculture, at its core philosophy, is based on observation with a scientific eye and physics, not metaphysical religion. If you and like-minded individuals want to include metaphysical thinking into the science, by all means, feel free. However, when discussing the philosophy to the outside world, we should all know our audience and adjust the message to present it in the most positive light. Many people in countries dominated by the big-3 religions with automatically tune you out when they recognize discussions that are counter to their own religion...unfortunately, they may also the vocal minority, which then spreads the untruth that Permaculture is an alternate religion (I see the same thing with the GMO argument). If we can prevent turning people off and giving them a peek at what's behind the door, they may want to open that door all the way and walk in...if we can do that, I see great things for this movement.

my 2 cents...

Allen: good points...however, here's my issue...I am not a baker with a need for an oven that I will fire at 2:00 AM, be ready for baking temps by 9:00 am when I leave for work and then pull dinner out of the oven at 6:00. I'm looking for an oven to substitute for the heat-spewing indoor electric oven that heats up my kitchen during the 9 month long period of summer we get here in FL.

I'm really looking at an oven that I can use on an 'often' basis (I don't bake every day), that heats up reasonably quickly (my charcoal grill takes ~1 hour to be cook ready...that would be good goal) for quick use but has the flexibility to take a large amount of heat when I get a wild hair and want to bake off some pizza, bread, cookies, meats, veggies, dry some herbs/fruits/veg on any given weekend when I have the time to keep an eye on a long firing. I am also in an urban(ish) environment with not a lot of room for wood storage, although I do have a fairly ready access to supply.

In my mind, a traditional wood oven/rocket hybrid could meet my needs. Maybe it's just my ignorance of the nuances of a wood oven...I am trying to avoid firing an oven, even a small one, for a couple of hours for a 1-2 hour bake and then waste the remaining 6 hours of stored heat. I don't know...maybe that will make me a better, more creative cook but I am basing my plan on what kind of a cook I am today, not the kind I might be down the road.

I watched both of these videos...questions I have on both of them...
1. The double chamber - While it certainly burns cleaner, the appearance of that flame from the top seems like there is still a lot of energy wasted out the top.
2. The Aprovecho oven is great for everyday cooking, if you are only doing 1 or 2 items and then walking away. If it still uses the same amount of fuel as the double chamber, and the double chamber can cook for 8 hours, that seems like a lot of wasted fuel in exchange for a quick heatup time.

What I'm inspired to do is create a "hybrid" oven that marries the efficiency of a rocket oven (quick heating, cooks with air convection) with an option of an extended cook time (a stone oven, cooks with retained heat). I realize that a "hybrid" oven wouldn't be excellent at any one item (may require slightly longer firing, won't stay as hot as long), but I would like to have some flexibility so I can use it as a more of a primary cooking tool, rather than heating it up only on the weekends (at best) because I can't spend 4-6 hours during the week to heat the oven for a 60-90 minute cook time. Has anyone experimented with that concept?

Key items I am considering in my design:
1. Rocket stove for quick, intense heating for shorter burn and cooking sessions
2. No floating floor to maximize oven space and flexibility. Plus, I would prefer to heat the cooking surface of the oven rather than heating the bottom of the cook floor and relying on circulating air to get the job done.
3. An option to direct fire the oven over a longer time to allow for a longer cooking session.
4. Creating an environment for a clean burn while capturing that additional heat and using it to heat the oven surface or air.

allen lumley wrote:John Dooley : Depending on what you have for a skill set the Double chamber cob oven from ernieanderica.info are all that you will need, Ernie is a fanatic about testing
his builds for a least a year before releasing any plans, and I know he has more than a couple of cob ovens to his credit !

Again depending on the skill sets that you bring to the job you could look at the "rocket type'' Bread oven from Aprovecho- To see that build go to You tube and enter
'Aprovecho Research Center' and Hunt for the Video Aprovevecho Rocket Bread Oven. This is a faster heating bread oven and can be used for small pizzas with about
the same amount of fuel as the Cob oven from E + E. This model might work better for people with different skills! Hope this helps you make up your mind, G'Luck !

For the Craft, as always questions / comments are solicited and Welcome! Think like Fire! think like a Gas, Don't be the Marshmallow ! PYRO - Logically Big AL !