Rhiannon Drake

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Summary

part 2 of a 2 part podcast

Paul finishes up "bits and bobs with Alexandra"

Paul talks about non-profits: most would disappear if people didn't get paid.  There are exceptions which work with volunteers, but most don't and thus their fundraising is to pay people.  Permies is run entirely by volunteers, and Paul pays the bills.  People are fond of suggesting setting up a non profit to fund Permies, but they are never willing to actually do anything about it.

The next topic raised is communities.

Alexandra has a friend who runs a community on their property, which is very open and she's interested to see if and how it works.  Because Paul's operation has well known standards, she knew that it would be safe to bring the kids there, which you don't necessarily find everywhere.

Alexandra mentions that when she first visited she asked Magdalen what it was like, and was told that it's just people.  They're not super human but conflicts are handled respectfully.  They talk about what it's like running the online community.  Alexandra hopes it's possible to be on staff and yet retain an optimistic and generous approach to people.  

Paul says we need a better recipe for communities, he's seen many go to shit.  He's attempting to do that at Wheaton labs and needs more people to see if it works. Alexandra wonders if Paul maybe comes over a little tyrannical and this puts off some of the good people while also putting off the kind he doesn't want.  She feels that Paul sells himself a bit short but Paul says this is part of protecting the community and himself, as he's been burned in the past.  He accepts that his approach might put people off but hopes that his message appeals to the type of people they want.

As a final note: it's January and yet so far the temperature hasn't been below 19°F which is unusual.

Relevant Threads

Permaculture Community forum

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Neath
Bill Crim
anonymous
Chris Sugg
Kerry JustTooLazy
Jocelyn Campbell
Bill Erickson
Sasquatch
G Cooper
Dominic Crolius
Penny McLoughlin
Mehron Kugler
Pasquale DeAngelis
havokeachday
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Greg Martin
Mark
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Dana Martin
Candace Dahlk
Keith Kuhnsman
Leanne
Eric Tolbert
Nick DePuy
Nathan Hale
Opalyn Rose
Polly Jayne Smyth
Todd Gerardot
Katie Young
Ivar Vasara
Brent Lawson
Weston prestage
Candice Crawford
Chris Holtslag
Song Zheng

Listen Online
Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

part 1 of a 2 part podcast.

Paul embarks on round 2 of "bits and bobs with Alexandra".

They talk about the cat houses.  Originally they were outside, but now they're attached to the buildings, one in the library and one in the solarium, and they can be opened into the house.  This allows them to share the house heat in winter; the original ones were unheated, but when it was cold people wanted to put electric heating in them.

Paul talks of his world domination plan.  He's convinced they need more boots in the bootcamp; Alexandra agrees.  He thinks the BEL fund is key and is considering a kickstarter which will help fund it.

Paul discusses the issues of families at Permies.  Some families are good but some have expected there to be built-in daycare, which there isn't.  It's important that kids are properly supervised but that's a job for the parents, not Paul.  Paul also comments that his house is not a place to dump kids.  Alexandra was aware when bringing her kids that it could have not worked out and she'd have to leave, but actually it's turned out good and they've been having a great time.

Alexandra advises people with kids that it's not a game-breaker to want to bring kids to Paul's place.  She comments about how good it was spending Christmas there.

Relevant Threads

Design: Solarium at Wheaton Labs: Design Conversation

permaculture bootcamp - learn permaculture through a little hard work

Dogs and Cats forum

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Neath
Bill Crim
anonymous
Chris Sugg
Kerry JustTooLazy
Jocelyn Campbell
Bill Erickson
Sasquatch
G Cooper
Dominic Crolius
Penny McLoughlin
Mehron Kugler
Pasquale DeAngelis
havokeachday
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Greg Martin
Mark
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Dana Martin
Candace Dahlk
Keith Kuhnsman
Leanne
Eric Tolbert
Nick DePuy
Nathan Hale
Opalyn Rose
Polly Jayne Smyth
Todd Gerardot
Katie Young
Ivar Vasara
Brent Lawson
Weston prestage
Candice Crawford
Chris Holtslag
Song Zheng

Listen Online
Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

part 2 of a 2 part podcast

Paul continues "bits and bobs with Alexandra" with the RMH providing background music

They discuss approving BBs.  Some are obviously not up to standard but some have clearly made the effort, and yet fail through some minor error.  Paul mentions that some rejections don't come with any comment:  It's been a thing that some candidates resort to insulting the (volunteer) assessor when they try to help, so the assessors don't bother any more.

Alexandra comments that the assessment process can seem to be arbitrary and sometimes unfair when a BB gets rejected where other similar ones have been approved.  Paul mentions there's BB court which should rule on such cases, but Alexandra says it's not actually there.  Occasionally, the requirements get updated so earlier submissions may have been approved which wouldn't be approved now.

Paul asks if the amount of bullshit you have to go through in college is more or less than SKIP: Alexandra says it's definitely less in SKIP.  She also advises if you have a BB rejected, just accept it and do it over - it's a better use of your time then trying to fight it.  It's good to do BBs at the labs: other candidates are supportive.

They talk about the time invested in SKIP vs the expected gain if you inherit property.  There is an uncertainty about SKIP that you don't know what the ultimate reward will be.  You have to commit to doing it and trust that it will pay off.  Paul mentions that if you go to college, you get no guarantees either.

Paul mentions many people are doing BBs to help with depression, which surprised him.  Alexandra comments on how learning skills and being validated is empowering.

Paul touches on the commerce badges:  Otis needs reassurance that someone inheriting must be able to support themselves financially, so someone doesn't burn through all the value of the property and sell it 5 years later.  Otis wants their property to be cherished and kept long term.  Alexandra hadn't really thought of that aspect.

Relevant Threads

All about SKIP, PEP, Badges, BBs and More!
Operate a RMH for One Month - PEP BB rocket.wood.month
Alex's Operate a Rocket Log

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Neath
Bill Crim
anonymous
Chris Sugg
Kerry JustTooLazy
Jocelyn Campbell
Bill Erickson
Sasquatch
G Cooper
Dominic Crolius
Penny McLoughlin
Mehron Kugler
Pasquale DeAngelis
havokeachday
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Greg Martin
Mark
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Dana Martin
Candace Dahlk
Keith Kuhnsman
Leanne
Eric Tolbert
Nick DePuy
Nathan Hale
Opalyn Rose
Polly Jayne Smyth
Todd Gerardot
Katie Young
Ivar Vasara
Brent Lawson
Weston prestage
Candice Crawford
Chris Holtslag
Song Zheng

Listen Online
Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

part 1 of a 2 part podcast

Paul talks with Alexandra about her experience staying at the Fisher-Price house with her kids.

Alexandra has just finished doing the 30 days "running a RMH" BB and is now embarking on the 1 week one.

Alexandra's husband visited over Christmas and Paul thinks it may be the first time they've had kids there at Christmas.  This seems to have been a good thing.

Paul talks about how engineers plan stuff - like running a freight train, but at the labs there are people who don't plan like that, which can make things complicated.  Paul's mantra is "make the best of it" - plans go sideways so you have to adapt.  Alexandra is a planner and can find it hard to adapt.

This is Alexandra's fourth visit.  This is a bit different: it doesn't seem like a vacation, because she has to cook. Also doing SKIP at the SKIP event is easier due to the support that's available.  She chose the wood level RMH BB as it's easier to plan the timescale, compared with things like gardening.  She likes that SKIP is motivating her to do stuff she wouldn't ordinarily do.

Paul comments that many of the people doing BBs and SKIP aren't doing it towards inheriting property, which isn't really what the OTISes hoped.  However, Alexandra isn't ruling out inheriting property.  Although she's fully invested in the system as a qualified engineer she's keen to be able to offer her kids another path.  The prospect of inheriting a property has led her to SKIP, as it could provide a way out of the system.  She thinks it could be hard to do SKIP entirely solo.  She's grateful for the support others in the scheme have given.

Paul comments about the cost aspects.  Alexandra has bought some tools and such to do SKIP.  But it can be done almost for zero cost.

Relevant Threads

All about SKIP, PEP, Badges, BBs and More!
Operate a RMH for One Month - PEP BB rocket.wood.month
Alex's Operate a Rocket Log

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Neath
Bill Crim
anonymous
Chris Sugg
Kerry JustTooLazy
Jocelyn Campbell
Bill Erickson
Sasquatch
G Cooper
Dominic Crolius
Penny McLoughlin
Mehron Kugler
Pasquale DeAngelis
havokeachday
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Greg Martin
Mark
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Dana Martin
Candace Dahlk
Keith Kuhnsman
Leanne
Eric Tolbert
Nick DePuy
Nathan Hale
Opalyn Rose
Polly Jayne Smyth
Todd Gerardot
Katie Young
Ivar Vasara
Brent Lawson
Weston prestage
Candice Crawford
Chris Holtslag
Song Zheng

Listen Online
Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

part 2 of a 2 part podcast

Paul continues the discussion about GAMCOD with Mike, Tim, Rebekah, Stephen and Clay

They're addressing Paul's list of gardening misconceptions which Wheaton eco scale level 1 people believe:
1) costs more than buying food at the store
2) requires massive knowledge
3) takes an enormous amount of time, it'd be easier to work and buy food.
4) requires an established garden
5) provides a tiny amount of novelty, not your main food.

They continue with point 3 about time.  The consensus is that none of the people in the podcast spent much time.

Moving on to point 4: the whole point of the GAMCOD project is that you start from scratch - which is the opposite of an established garden.  The whole point is to start with nothing.  The different members started from different places: Rebekah started with a lawn.  Stephen built a hügelkultur at the labs using dirt and some logs.  The dirt was silty clay stuff dug out from a handy point.

Next they move on to point 5: the focus of GAMCOD is to grow calories not just food - people tend to grow things like tomatoes or other foods which don't provide much calories per acre.  Mike comments that many people don't cook much, they buy mostly ready meals.  If you habitually do that you tend to grow just herbs and salad.  Paul agrees, most of the high calorie stuff needs cooking.  Tim mentions that gardening allows you to try things that you might not normally eat.  Stephen agrees with that and also comments that GAMCOD requires several different crops to qualify.  By selecting the right crops you can grow plenty of food.

Paul reviews the requirements for GAMCOD: 200 sq. ft, clearly marked at the start.  For this round, the climate has to have got to zero °F at some time in the last 10 years.  Maybe next year other climates might be included.  The core requirement is calories per acre.  Need to grow at least 5 crops which are generally recognized as food. No Soy, because Monsanto own it all. No imports of fertilizer, no importing mulch etc. from more than 500ft away.  Track time and money spent and minimize both.  Also track how much you saved on buying groceries.  Any video which is used in the final movie will earn $400 per minute.

Relevant Threads

GAMCOD forum

GAMCOD 2025: 200 square feet; Zero degrees F or colder; calories cheap and easy
GAMCOD: Video Submissions
GAMCOD - strategy C
PEP/PEM BBs to complete during GAMCOD

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Neath
Bill Crim
anonymous
Chris Sugg
Kerry JustTooLazy
Jocelyn Campbell
Bill Erickson
Sasquatch
G Cooper
Dominic Crolius
Penny McLoughlin
Mehron Kugler
Pasquale DeAngelis
havokeachday
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Greg Martin
Mark
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Dana Martin
Candace Dahlk
Keith Kuhnsman
Leanne
Eric Tolbert
Nick DePuy
Nathan Hale
Opalyn Rose
Polly Jayne Smyth
Todd Gerardot
Katie Young
Ivar Vasara
Brent Lawson
Weston prestage
Candice Crawford
Chris Holtslag
Song Zheng

Listen Online
Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

part 1 of a 2 part podcast

Paul, Mike, Tim, Rebekah, and Clay discuss GAMCOD (originally Grow A Million Calories On [1 acre of] Dirt - enough to feed 1 person for a year). Stephen joins in part way through.

The new GAMCOD requires you to grow food on a 200 sq ft plot of dirt (unimproved ground) and record the process on video.  The idea is to grow as much as possible in a single growing season without augmenting it with compost, fertilizer or other bought-in stuff.  There's a thread on Permies for GAMCOD with more detail.  On the Wheaton eco scale, most of the stuff they do at the labs is level 5 or more.  The idea of the GAMCOD movie is to do really simple stuff which appeals to level 1 people.

Paul says people want more videos etc. about gardening.  There is a lot of bad advice about gardening, so there's a good case for that.

Level 1 people believe various misconceptions about gardening:
1) costs more than buying food at the store
2) requires massive knowledge
3) takes an enormous amount of time, it'd be easier to work and buy food.
4) requires an established garden
5) provides a tiny amount of novelty, not your main food.

They discuss these points, and how their experience shows they are wrong.  

The consensus is that it can be cheap but you may have to adjust what you eat.

If you do "conventional" gardening there's some truth in point 2, but with the right approach you can grow plenty without too much knowledge but there is some knowledge needed.  Paul hopes the GAMCOD movie will provide the needed knowledge for beginners.

Addressing the point about time: Mike Haasl reckoned he spent under 5 hours in total; Stephen reckoned he spent about 20 hours.  They agree it need not take much time.  Rebekah makes a good point that you have to be consistent.  Also gardening is good for your soul.

Relevant Threads

GAMCOD forum

GAMCOD 2025: 200 square feet; Zero degrees F or colder; calories cheap and easy
GAMCOD: Video Submissions
GAMCOD - strategy C
PEP/PEM BBs to complete during GAMCOD

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Neath
Bill Crim
anonymous
Chris Sugg
Kerry JustTooLazy
Jocelyn Campbell
Bill Erickson
Sasquatch
G Cooper
Dominic Crolius
Penny McLoughlin
Mehron Kugler
Pasquale DeAngelis
havokeachday
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Greg Martin
Mark
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Dana Martin
Candace Dahlk
Keith Kuhnsman
Leanne
Eric Tolbert
Nick DePuy
Nathan Hale
Opalyn Rose
Polly Jayne Smyth
Todd Gerardot
Katie Young
Ivar Vasara
Brent Lawson
Weston prestage
Candice Crawford
Chris Holtslag
Song Zheng

Listen Online
Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

part 1 of a 2 part podcast

Paul, Mike, Tim, Rebekah, and Clay discuss GAMCOD (originally Grow A Million Calories On [1 acre of] Dirt - enough to feed 1 person for a year). Stephen joins in part way through.

The new GAMCOD requires you to grow food on a 200 sq ft plot of dirt (unimproved ground) and record the process on video.  The idea is to grow as much as possible in a single growing season without augmenting it with compost, fertilizer or other bought-in stuff.  There's a thread on Permies for GAMCOD with more detail.  On the Wheaton eco scale, most of the stuff they do at the labs is level 5 or more.  The idea of the GAMCOD movie is to do really simple stuff which appeals to level 1 people.

Paul says people want more videos etc. about gardening.  There is a lot of bad advice about gardening, so there's a good case for that.

Level 1 people believe various misconceptions about gardening:
1) costs more than buying food at the store
2) requires massive knowledge
3) takes an enormous amount of time, it'd be easier to work and buy food.
4) requires an established garden
5) provides a tiny amount of novelty, not your main food.

They discuss these points, and how their experience shows they are wrong.  

The consensus is that it can be cheap but you may have to adjust what you eat.

If you do "conventional" gardening there's some truth in point 2, but with the right approach you can grow plenty without too much knowledge but there is some knowledge needed.  Paul hopes the GAMCOD movie will provide the needed knowledge for beginners.

Addressing the point about time: Mike Haasl reckoned he spent under 5 hours in total; Stephen reckoned he spent about 20 hours.  They agree it need not take much time.  Rebekah makes a good point that you have to be consistent.  Also gardening is good for your soul.

Relevant Threads

GAMCOD forum

GAMCOD 2025: 200 square feet; Zero degrees F or colder; calories cheap and easy
GAMCOD: Video Submissions
GAMCOD - strategy C
PEP/PEM BBs to complete during GAMCOD

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Neath
Bill Crim
anonymous
Chris Sugg
Kerry JustTooLazy
Jocelyn Campbell
Bill Erickson
Sasquatch
G Cooper
Dominic Crolius
Penny McLoughlin
Mehron Kugler
Pasquale DeAngelis
havokeachday
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Greg Martin
Mark
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Dana Martin
Candace Dahlk
Keith Kuhnsman
Leanne
Eric Tolbert
Nick DePuy
Nathan Hale
Opalyn Rose
Polly Jayne Smyth
Todd Gerardot
Katie Young
Ivar Vasara
Brent Lawson
Weston prestage
Candice Crawford
Chris Holtslag
Song Zheng

Listen Online
Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

part 3 of a 3 part podcast

Paul, Alan, Stephen and Clay continue the discussion about poop.

Alan is interested to see the final output of the composting process.

Paul lists trees that are "poop beasts"- top of the tree list is willow.  Grasses also do well and bamboo is an option.  Paul has deliberately avoided food plants as an extra layer of safety.

Alan wants to know how well the output would spread over a wide area.  Stephen says it would, given the right spreader. Alan sees that as a way of scaling up: it could be used to feed a large area of pasture, and that pasture could feed ruminants.  

Paul states that flies and "poop kool-aid" (groundwater contamination) are well controlled in this system, better than in say a sewage treatment plant.  He discusses the possibility of a dry outhouse, which could also provide good control of contamination via flies and water if built right.  It would have willows planted around it to eat the poop.

Sawdust vs wood ash: either will work but using a mixture is a bad idea as it could result in lye which is potentially dangerous.

Art Ludwig favors mulch pits for gray water systems.  If you surround the pit with willow trees it will consume stuff from the pit year round, this would be good for urine processing.  Alan comments that in colder regions the pit needs to be deep enough that it can't freeze.

Paul describes the 4 willow feeders at the lab; another is under construction.  Clay comments about the indoor installation: it would be nice to have a door to take the buckets out without going through the building. It has solar-powered fan for air flow management.  The willow feeders don't smell because the airflow is arranged to flow into them.

The warehouse is a simple building where the cans are stored.  The cans are marked with the date when they are put in, so they know when the 2 years are up.

Relevant Threads

Composting forum

Toilet Alternatives forum
what is a willow feeder
the first willow feeder (wheelie bin pooper) at paul's place - "chateau de poo"

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Neath
Bill Crim
anonymous
Chris Sugg
Kerry JustTooLazy
Jocelyn Campbell
Bill Erickson
Sasquatch
G Cooper
Dominic Crolius
Penny McLoughlin
Mehron Kugler
Pasquale DeAngelis
havokeachday
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Greg Martin
Mark
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Dana Martin
Candace Dahlk
Keith Kuhnsman
Leanne
Eric Tolbert
Nick DePuy
Nathan Hale
Opalyn Rose
Polly Jayne Smyth
Todd Gerardot
Katie Young
Ivar Vasara
Brent Lawson
Weston prestage
Candice Crawford
Chris Holtslag
Song Zheng

Listen Online
Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

part 2 of a 3 part podcast

Paul, Alan, Steven and Clay continue the discussion about poop.

Paul's aim is to come up with something better than a sewage plant, which areas that ban compost toilets can embrace.

Alan feels that the current state is that the alpha testing is now complete, and what's needed now is beta testing so that it can be properly documented and developed.  However, Paul can't afford to put money into testing.  He now feels it's ready to share more widely and could become a cheaper and better system than current sewage processing.  Alan makes valid points about the cash and environmental cost of installing conventional sewage systems

Paul and Alan debate whether humanure or willow feeder is going to be safer when it comes to pathogens.  They agree that the willow feeder is going to be better especially if the humanure isn't done well.  Alan also raises the point that getting the environment too sanitized is raising problems with development of immune systems in children.

Alan makes a point that most of the composting toilets are not true composting, and they don't achieve as good results as sewage treatment or septic tanks.  True composting is an aerobic process and more complicated than most people think.  However, humanure is still better than nothing.  Paul makes the point that most of the systems rely on time to negate the pathogens.  Later they return to this and comment about the bins they use for the willow feeder, which now are mostly not smelly.  Alan lists smelly products of anaerobic processing.  Absence of smell is a fair indicator that the decomposition is indeed aerobic.

Alan starts imagining how to scale up the willow feeder system to cope with larger or more densely populated areas.

Relevant Threads

Composting forum

Toilet Alternatives forum
what is a willow feeder
the first willow feeder (wheelie bin pooper) at paul's place - "chateau de poo"

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Neath
Bill Crim
anonymous
Chris Sugg
Kerry JustTooLazy
Jocelyn Campbell
Bill Erickson
Sasquatch
G Cooper
Dominic Crolius
Penny McLoughlin
Mehron Kugler
Pasquale DeAngelis
havokeachday
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Greg Martin
Mark
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Dana Martin
Candace Dahlk
Keith Kuhnsman
Leanne
Eric Tolbert
Nick DePuy
Nathan Hale
Opalyn Rose
Polly Jayne Smyth
Todd Gerardot
Katie Young
Ivar Vasara
Brent Lawson
Weston prestage
Candice Crawford
Chris Holtslag
Song Zheng

Listen Online
Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

part 1 of a 3 part podcast

Paul, Steven, Clay and Alan talk about waste management systems.

Paul pays tribute to Joseph Jenkins for the development of the humanure system but says that it doesn't scale up well.

Alan agrees, he has designed systems for all sizes from individual families to town-sized.  Jenkins's system is good for a small group.

Paul raises the point about why bother composting human waste.  Most systems for dealing with waste are imperfect.  When it comes to human waste, you have to consider pathogens.  Alan says that the baseline for health is lower than in the past so this is more relevant than it used to be.  This is why you have to manage waste effectively.  The common sewage systems in place arose from transporting the waste effectively to a treatment site.

Paul discusses the development of waste management as population density increases, from pooping on the ground through sewage treatment plants.  
Alan comments that in a number of states, the "bio-solids" from the sewage plants are put on agricultural land but this is a bad idea as it poisons the land with heavy metals and other stuff that doesn't break down.

Alan comments that there's a minimum size to make a compost heap, or it won't work: about 1 cubic meter is effectively the lower limit for effectively dealing with pathogens.  Larger is better.

Paul aims to compost 1000lbs of material and get 50lbs of awesome compost out, i.e. 5%.  However, much of the carbon and Nitrogen is lost to the atmosphere which is not so good as if it could be in the soil.

Now we come to willow feeders.  Willow is excellent at absorbing waste, preventing it entering the water system.  It's much better than a drain field.  At Wheaton labs they have had willow feeders for 10 or 11 years and now it's quite well sorted although it took 2-3 years to get it optimized.

Alan talks about the output from the willows, and how it's broken down.  Paul describes how the material is processed, over a 2 year period.  Depending on the environment, the can may continue composting.  Alan wants to outfit a can with sensors for oxygen, moisture and temperature to find out how it does it.  He suspects that part of the process is anaerobic in part.  Paul feels that the output indicates that it's very slow but aerobic.

Relevant Threads

Composting forum

Toilet Alternatives forum
what is a willow feeder

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Neath
Bill Crim
anonymous
Chris Sugg
Kerry JustTooLazy
Jocelyn Campbell
Bill Erickson
Sasquatch
G Cooper
Dominic Crolius
Penny McLoughlin
Mehron Kugler
Pasquale DeAngelis
havokeachday
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Greg Martin
Mark
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Dana Martin
Candace Dahlk
Keith Kuhnsman
Leanne
Eric Tolbert
Nick DePuy
Nathan Hale
Opalyn Rose
Polly Jayne Smyth
Todd Gerardot
Katie Young
Ivar Vasara
Brent Lawson
Weston prestage
Candice Crawford
Chris Holtslag
Song Zheng