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Rhiannon Drake

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Summary

part 2 of a 2 part podcast

The subject of "building a better world in your backyard instead of blaming bad guys".  Some people seem to think that by voting in the right politician the world's problems will be solved.  Paul is not convinced. He'd rather pick up a shovel and do stuff to make the world a better place.

Paul relates how, many years ago, he worked as a librarian for the north west power planning council.  His job was to file all the documentation, form which he learned a lot.  The joke around the office was "conservation" - they spent a lot of time and effort trying to get people to use less power.  Conservation and using less power is the answer but getting people to do it is another matter.

They move on to communities.  Paul asserts that 95% of intentional communities fail, so he thinks we need a new model for communities.  He feels what sabotages communities is drama, and thus he's keen to reduce drama.  Beside no tobacco or drugs, there aren't many hard rules at Wheaton labs.  The decision process is "independent thought consensus dictator hybrid".  Sometimes consensus takes too long, so they have a dictator, i.e. Paul.  Paul was recently described as a "tinpot dictator" and after he looked it up he quite liked it.

Paul relates the story of the property owner who sold the same property 3 times.  Banks mostly won't touch homesteads, so you have owner-finance.  People try to make a go of homesteading while still doing their worky job and this almost always fails, and they lose their money.  What Paul offers is the ability to try it without the financial risk.  He describes the process of being in the boot camp.  Paul's idea is to come up with a reliable recipe for communities, and put that in a book so it can spread all over the world.

Next they talk about SKIP.  SKIP was created to train people and verify them to inherit land from homesteaders who have nobody to will their land to.  Paul feels about 85% of the people doing SKIP aren't actually bothered about inheriting land.  

Paul and other engineers feel that at this time, going to college to get qualified for a job is a sucker bet.  There are fewer jobs, and there are qualified and experienced people competing for jobs.  The possibility is also approaching that robots will be taking over trade jobs in the future.  College now only makes sense if you can get a free ride.

Now Paul is asked what he hopes will be his legacy in 100 years from now.  He's not really looking for legacy.  He'd like that his ideas such as WOFATI and the backyard food pump would be proven and widely adopted, and gardening gardeners would be everywhere, and hunger will be reduced.

Relevant Threads

SuburbanBiology's Youtube page

Paul Wheaton: Low input heaters, High output Gardens, Zero Sugar coating.
World's most efficient stove!!! Made of DIRT!!!

All about SKIP, PEP, Badges, BBs and More!

Community forum

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Aster
Sasquatch
Bill Crim
G Cooper
Mehron Kugler
Bill Erickson
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Brent Lawson
Song Zheng
Dana Martin
David Lucey
Janelle
thomas adams
Clay McGowan
Shay Riggs
Dr. Jackie
Keith Kuhnsman
Cindi Duehmig
Banter Couch
Eric Tolbert
Paul Tipper
Paul F
Gerald Bernard


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Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

part 1 of a 2 part podcast

Youtube channel Suburban Biology created a video of building his RMH which is a copy of the Cooper Cabin RMH.  It's an excellent video.  Last March, the channel's owner visited and interviewed Paul; Paul has with permission stripped out the audio from that interview to make this podcast.

They start off with light bulbs, which goes back to the CFL debate/testing 20 years ago.  Paul hates being the light bulb guy, but now he's the RMH guy.  Paul revisits the issue of CFLs vs Incandescent.  At the time it was politically expedient to support CFL sales via subsidies.

Next they talk about regulation.  Is regulation a good thing? Paul states his position that if you have a humble home and a large garden, the whole of government and politics seems less important.

Paul recounts his life as a software engineer, at which he was pretty successful.  After a while he got bitten by the permaculture bug and 20 years or so ago he stopped being a software engineer and started permies.com

The question of AI comes up.  Everyone is worried about AI taking their jobs.  If you have a humble home and a large garden you don't worry.  They drift to the possibility of robots which can help with gardening and so on.  Paul likes the idea of a robot that can look after him when he's no longer capable.  Paul relates how bananacom revolutionized communications and made him famous overnight.

Paul offers his definition: permaculture is a more symbiotic relationship with nature so he can be even lazier.  He recalls his first PDC, where he decided that permaculture was his future.

They talk about RMHs.  Paul advocates for pebble style mass which is easier to move.  In Montana the prices for various kinds of heating have gone up a lot, and people are concerned.  The discussion moves on to WOFATI and thermal inertial.

Next Paul talks about the automatic backyard food pump.

Relevant Threads

SuburbanBiology's Youtube page

Paul Wheaton: Low input heaters, High output Gardens, Zero Sugar coating.
World's most efficient stove!!! Made of DIRT!!!

It is 2026 and incandescent is still better than LED

Rocket Mass Heaters forum

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Aster
Sasquatch
Bill Crim
G Cooper
Mehron Kugler
Bill Erickson
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Brent Lawson
Song Zheng
Dana Martin
David Lucey
Janelle
thomas adams
Clay McGowan
Shay Riggs
Dr. Jackie
Keith Kuhnsman
Cindi Duehmig
Banter Couch
Eric Tolbert
Paul Tipper
Paul F
Gerald Bernard


Listen Online
Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

part 2 of a 2 part podcast

Paul, Alan and friends continue the hügelkultur smackdown

They discuss about sources for wood to build hügelkulturs, and what to avoid due to the risk of herbicides.  They also talk about how to remediate various toxic materials.  Alan comments about the benefits of bio-remediation, vs. "conventional" methods like removing contaminated soil.  Paul says he has about 200 hours of comment about this, but he's tired of saying it.

Paul advocates for starting with clean ground, but as Alan points out, it's becoming harder and more expensive to get genuinely clean ground, and he wants people to realize that it's possible to fix many issues, but it's important to do that before you grow food on it.

The next question is about making a garden in a water trough.  Paul is dismissive of this idea.  The questioner also mentioned hickory flooring.  Provided it hasn't go anything nasty on it, or surplus metal, it should be good to use in a hügelkultur.

The next question concerns bio-char.  Paul says bio-char is a lot of work, and often done wrong.  Alan agrees that often is the case but bio-char does have its uses, especially in very sandy soil.  Paul does admit that bio-char does well in tropical areas, where hügelkulturs aren't good.  He also feels if you have bio-char, it will be handy to put into a hügelkultur for diversity.

A question arrives about incorporating hügelkultur with livestock rotation.  You can harvest what you want from the hügelkultur before the animals arrive.  Paul likes to advocate that moving the animals along after they have eaten around 30% of the material.

The final discussion is about not making small hügelkulturs.  The bigger the better!  Paul is now incorporating chunky blocks of wood as steps, which is very effective.

Relevant Threads

Hügelkultur forum
Washington Hügelkultur post

Biochar forum

Rotational grazing forum

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Aster
Sasquatch
Bill Crim
G Cooper
Mehron Kugler
Bill Erickson
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Brent Lawson
Song Zheng
Dana Martin
David Lucey
Janelle
thomas adams
Clay McGowan
Shay Riggs
Dr. Jackie
Keith Kuhnsman
Cindi Duehmig
Banter Couch
Eric Tolbert
Paul Tipper
Paul F
Gerald Bernard


Listen Online
Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

Paul and friends are talking about hügelkultur.

Paul opens with a post from someone in western Washington who is working on his first hügelkultur.  Paul strongly advises building it at least 7ft high.  Paul sees people building hügelkulturs by piling up a lot of logs and then adding earth.  He advises that this isn't likely to work.  You need to start by laying down a layer of wood, and then covering it with soil.  Then add more wood, and more soil, and continue until the whole thing is at least 7ft high.

Alan compares it to making lasagna.  Unfortunately, there's a style of gardening called lasagna gardening which Paul dislikes intensely, so he asks that lasagna and hügelkultur never be in the same sentence.  Someone asks about lasagna gardening and why Paul dislikes it.  Cardboard is mentioned which causes Paul to rant.  

Alan mentions that modern cardboard is likely to have all manner of toxic gick in it.  Paul agrees, that's why it's even worse to put in your garden.

Back to hügelkultur building: Paul likes blobs.  Kitchen scraps, lawn cuttings etc can be incorporated in contiguous lumps, rather than spreading it around.  Alan mentions that too big of a blob of some materials can go anaerobic.  Paul clarifies that the blobs shouldn't be bigger than basketball sized.  Alan talks a bit more about anaerobic stuff in compost piles, but Paul feels that in the hügelkultur the risk of it going anaerobic fast is lower.

They talk about biodiversity and the benefits it brings.

Now they address a question about hügelkultur orientation, Paul prefers hügelkulturs to be kind of wavy and running up and downhill, this is more relevant than orientation relative to the sun.  The variety of sun coverage leads to more diversity due to different sun exposure.  Paul calls in Andreas who lives in the tropics, and hügelkulturs don't work there due to rapid decomposition of the wood.

Someone form North central Missouri asks about aging fallen wood.  Paul says it's not generally necessary.  Alan mentions hardwood species, it takes a few weeks for their anti-fungal compounds to break down which is relevant.

Next question is if a tree dies from disease, is it OK to use it in a hügelkultur.  Provided it was a natural death, Paul sees no problem.  Herbicide is another question though: you shouldn't use trees that died from herbicide, so you need to be a bit careful.

Relevant Threads

Hügelkultur forum
Washington Hügelkultur post

Cardboard Substitutes in a Lasagna Garden

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Aster
Sasquatch
Bill Crim
G Cooper
Mehron Kugler
Bill Erickson
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Brent Lawson
Song Zheng
Dana Martin
David Lucey
Janelle
thomas adams
Clay McGowan
Shay Riggs
Dr. Jackie
Keith Kuhnsman
Cindi Duehmig
Banter Couch
Eric Tolbert
Paul Tipper
Paul F
Gerald Bernard


Listen Online
Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

Paul and Cheryl continue their discussion

The next point is paddock shift, which people don't all seem to get.  For Paul it's always been a normal thing.

They talk about laundry.  People use dryers but that kills your clothes.  Paul uses Oasis brand detergent but he's looking into alternatives.  Cheryl says she almost exclusively  just uses baking soda.

Having an apothecary is discussed, Paul talks about theirs.  He also talks about the apple trees, and round wood joinery.  The new wood racks improve the appearance of the berm shed.

Relevant Threads

Laundry products for greywater systems
Clothing forum

berm sheds

Rotational Grazing forum

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Aster
Sasquatch
Bill Crim
G Cooper
Mehron Kugler
Bill Erickson
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Brent Lawson
Song Zheng
Dana Martin
David Lucey
Janelle
thomas adams
Clay McGowan
Shay Riggs
Dr. Jackie
Keith Kuhnsman
Cindi Duehmig
Banter Couch
Eric Tolbert
Paul Tipper
Paul F
Gerald Bernard


Listen Online
Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

Paul talks to Cheryl about organic bananas.

Cheryl reports that someone in the store was questioning why she would spend extra on organic bananas.

Paul has become anti-banana because regular bananas get sprayed with toxic gick, which would be a good reason to buy organic.

He goes on to explain his theory that non-organic food is a cunning plan to get rid of old people faster so they don't have to pay pensions.

He also wonders how many banana executives eat the bananas they sell.

Paul would much rather apples than bananas; he's upset that bananas cost less than apples in the grocery store.

Cheryl lists things about her garden and her lifestyle which stand out where she lives, as her garden is for growing food; the neighbors think it's weird.  Paul understands, he has the same issues when trying to talk about gardening.

Cheryl would like to raise rabbits, but the rabbit she bought has become a pet.  Paul feels that wouldn't be an issue if there were 20 rabbits.

Foraging is another issue which the neighbors look sideways at.

The next point is sewing her own clothes, rather than buying them in the store.

Finally they drift off into talking about homesteading vs boot camp, and how "the system" is failing.

Relevant Threads

Wild Harvesting forum

Rabbits forum

Clothing forum

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Aster
Sasquatch
Bill Crim
G Cooper
Mehron Kugler
Bill Erickson
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Brent Lawson
Song Zheng
Dana Martin
David Lucey
Janelle
thomas adams
Clay McGowan
Shay Riggs
Dr. Jackie
Keith Kuhnsman
Cindi Duehmig
Banter Couch
Eric Tolbert
Paul Tipper
Paul F
Gerald Bernard


Listen Online
Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

Paul embarks on a walk around basecamp with Samantha

About a year ago they had help week; Paul had the idea of creating a trail around basecamp so he can walk (he's got a target number of steps per day) and then they could plant stuff by the trail.  He's been working on this intermittently, and Samantha has been helping.

Paul mentions that yesterday Samantha went out in the garden to get stuff for a salad.  She's brought some lamb with her.  Paul has her list what plants she found.  Some of the plants were planted purposefully, others just turned up.  Paul found a couple of morels which he cooked, and was surprised to find out that Samantha hadn't ever had them.  Paul says morels are the best mushroom.

They discuss Camas which native Americans used to eat, until someone brought potatoes, which are much easier to process.  Paul also discusses the soup he made, which had various veg from the garden.  Paul talks about his apricot tree, which had a ton of blooms on it and he has high hopes for apricots this year.  He's also kept a lot of seeds from a good plum tree to plant.  Many of the fruit trees are in bloom, but there are some lacking: they have no peach trees for example.

Paul mentions gardening in the Seattle/Portland area: there's someone in bootcamp who was a big player in the beacon food forest.  Seems there they have "hügelkulturs" which are about a foot and a half tall and she is amazed by Paul's huge hügelkulturs.  In general though Paul doesn't want anything to do with Seattle and Portland - it's full of lichen and slugs and other nasty stuff.

Relevant Threads

Wild Harvesting forum

some pics from paul

Camas / Quamash growing, cooking and harvesting

Podcast 291 - Beacon Food Forest
Beacon Food Forest website

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Aster
Sasquatch
Bill Crim
G Cooper
Mehron Kugler
Bill Erickson
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Brent Lawson
Song Zheng
Dana Martin
David Lucey
Janelle
thomas adams
Clay McGowan
Shay Riggs
Dr. Jackie
Keith Kuhnsman
Cindi Duehmig
Banter Couch
Eric Tolbert
Paul Tipper
Paul F
Gerald Bernard


Listen Online
Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

Paul is joined by Samantha

Paul talks about a video he watched of a family harvesting their food, but a comment about only growing what they eat annoyed him as he felt they don't grow all the stuff they eat.  He offers the example of a PBJ sandwich - you can't grow bread and jelly.  You can grow wheat but getting from wheat to bread is hard work.  It has to be threshed, winnowed and ground and even then you don't get bread like store bought flour; plus all the wheat has to be harvested when it's ripe, with a fairly narrow window.  

When you grow what you eat, you start from what you get at the grocery store which can be a challenge.

Paul much prefers "eat what you grow" as a philosophy. For example learning how to eat the stuff the grows already with no effort.  However he's frustrated by the huge majority of gardeners who are convinced it's all bullshit.  As an example, today they spent 5 minutes getting sunchokes and onions to make soup.

Much of what's in the grocery store is selected for its shelf life, or for ease of machine processing, or for high profit so there's a limited choice.  

They move on to talking about boot camp.  The gardening gardeners program is a way of building a community.  There are a lot of communities out there which you can buy into but people don't contribute where they should.  In the boot camp, people are expected to put in 40 hours a week.  In general this works well without the resentment which comes from people not contributing.  Paul is trying to formulate good words to describe it.

Finally Paul went into Missoula to an Earth day event.  When he arrived they were firing up a cob oven which was making smoke all over.  There were many things which he knew could be better but he didn't want to rain on their parade, so he spent the whole time biting his tongue.  He found the whole event disheartening.


Relevant Threads

permaculture bootcamp - gardening gardeners; grow the food you eat and build your own home
Podcast 716 - Gardening Gardeners - Part 1, Part 2

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Aster
Sasquatch
Bill Crim
G Cooper
Mehron Kugler
Bill Erickson
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Brent Lawson
Song Zheng
Dana Martin
David Lucey
Janelle
thomas adams
Clay McGowan
Shay Riggs
Dr. Jackie
Keith Kuhnsman
Cindi Duehmig
Banter Couch
Eric Tolbert
Paul Tipper
Paul F
Gerald Bernard


Listen Online
Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

part 2 of a 2 part podcast

Sleaze and anti-sleaze

Paul continues the discussion accompanied by Samantha.

Paul compares Boot camp with homesteading, especially taking on a homestead for the first time.  Rather than spending over 100 hours a week and not getting all your projects done, in boot camp you do 40 hours, and gain spoons rather than using a ton.  Boot camp has a powerful anti-sleaze effect.

Setting up a homestead from scratch or taking over a non functional property creates a lot of self-imposed obligation which sucks spoons, much like sleaze does.

Samantha says permies is a community of individuals.  There's still room for independence but also space for collaboration.  

Paul says that the sleaze of people working and gaming the system is a problem in the USA as everyone wants to tell people what to do and how to advance.  However with a humble home and a large garden you can step back from all that.  Boot camp is a powerful anti-sleaze force - no need for a phone or a car or other things which are increasingly sleazy.

Paul wants to get the gardening gardeners program fully sorted out, so that people setting up a homestead for example could run such a scheme and reduce their obligations and increase their spoons.  Without a good, proven framework it's risky.  As Samantha comments this is what's great about SKIP, people can demonstrate their abilities and homesteaders can see that.

Paul relates something of Mike Oehler's issues with interns: he had 100 interns and they were all no good.  Paul suspects that the indoctrination that you have to be a fierce independent was part of the issue.

Paul finishes by reflecting on the last 20 years running permies.

Relevant Threads

Spoon theory - Wikipedia

Podcast 717 - Gardening Gardeners - Part 1,  Part 2

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Aster
Sasquatch
Bill Crim
G Cooper
Mehron Kugler
Bill Erickson
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Brent Lawson
Song Zheng
Dana Martin
David Lucey
Janelle
thomas adams
Clay McGowan
Shay Riggs
Dr. Jackie
Keith Kuhnsman
Cindi Duehmig
Banter Couch
Eric Tolbert
Paul Tipper
Paul F
Gerald Bernard


Listen Online
Download

Get all of the Podcasts in convenient, giant zip files
Subscribe on iTunes

Summary

part 1 of a 2 part podcast

Sleaze and anti-sleaze

Paul is with Samantha in a zero-prep podcast.

Paul talks about a book which he says should be titled "how to live your life as a level 9 douchebag", which he feels sums up a lot of what happens these days.  This last week there's been an unprecedented amount of sleaze.  

Paul used to donate blood when he was young, but they gave him a health warning which turned out to be a false positive, which put him off it.  Later, he decided to go donate blood again.  He had to fill in a long form but apparently the system had him flagged due to the previous issue so he wasn't allowed to donate.  After spending 45 minutes on the phone he thought it was cleared up, so he went back to the red cross but they still wouldn't accept his blood.  Nobody seemed to care enough to fix it.  

Now he donates blood in Couer d'Alene, where he's not flagged by the system. However, recently their online system refused to let him make an appointment, and it seems it wasn't easily possible to fix that, nor could he talk to an actual person to discuss it.  The sleaze is evident in the poor quality of the systems, and the lack of interest shown by the employees.

Paul hopes that permies does better than the blood donor people to handle issues that may arise.  He feels that at least in the USA it's at least four times sleazier than 10 years ago.  People seem to only care about themselves rather than doing their job.  In this way permies staff are different as they do care.

Paul brings up the topic of spoon theory.  Being exposed to sleaze eats spoons.

He mentions something Des said when he was commander of the boot camp:  In his life before, everything was done from a position of scarcity; by comparison, everything at the boot camp is from a position of abundance.  

Paul relates a recent experience where Harry and Stephen were fixing something in Allerton abbey, and the whole way it was done seemed to generate spoons.

Relevant Threads

Spoon theory - Wikipedia

Support the Empire

Help support the empire and get all of the podcasts in a bundle here in the digital market at permies.

To support production of these podcasts, make a donation here at Paul's Patreon page.



This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
Kyle Aster
Sasquatch
Bill Crim
G Cooper
Mehron Kugler
Bill Erickson
Julia Winter, world's slowest mosaic artist
Sean Benedict
Rita Bliden
Brent Lawson
Song Zheng
Dana Martin
David Lucey
Janelle
thomas adams
Clay McGowan
Shay Riggs
Dr. Jackie
Keith Kuhnsman
Cindi Duehmig
Banter Couch
Eric Tolbert
Paul Tipper
Paul F
Gerald Bernard