Ronny Williams

I'm an artist / game developer looking for other like minded and educated people.

I'm not much of an "alternative" type of person... I don't smoke or drink... instead I'm more of a computer nerd that has played many RPGs and comes from D&D and Tolkien that wants to live in a little cottage tower in the woods while homesteading and continuing my work.

Also, yes, I'm trans... but the easiest way to think of me is a guy that looks feminine and dates other guys (rarely).



Anyhow, I've finally saved up enough cheddar that I'm thinking of getting land this next year and starting to build my cottage and whatnot. But figured I'd see if there are other people in my age range and position looking at something similar.

I figure romantic partner would complicate things, so am more open to non-romantic friend that is aiming to get going also...

My big goal is to have a nice garden and a few animals (I grew up around animals), and a very well stocked pantry while trying to figure out how to grow tree woven chairs or something..... but I also appreciate the modern technologies of the world, such as fine VR movies and bideo gams.

PS. My name isn't actually Bob Just figured that would be a better name for this type of forum

Jim Reiland wrote:

But if you're using the 8" CMUs for a basement wall, just place your bales on the floor above that, with the inside edge supported by floor joists.  There are three illustrations of that on page 76 of the book, Figures 3-10a, 10b., and 10c.  We build straw bale walls on raised floors all the time.  The exterior edge, which usually plays some role in holding up the building's roof in a post-and-beam structure is well supported by the 8" stem wall, and the considerable loads on the interior of the wall are supported by the floor joists bearing under the interior sill.

Jim Reiland
Many Hands Builders

That's a great idea. Avoids the overhang issue completely. Thanks, I should get a copy of that book.

Though I was hoping to have the floor joists be a bit lower than the top of the stem wall (since there is a basement under). But maybe doing a mini wall inside onto the floor joists? Insulation + wood coming out into the room and topped with boards (likely the base boards on top of the CMU blocks before the straw bale is put on top, since I don't believe you can place the straw on CMU directly and still be code?) to create a strong ledge built on the floor joists and offering more insulation.

A little extra work, but seems like it would create the same effect and avoid any overhangs.

John C Daley wrote:I believe from experience that amount of overhang, even with timber would be bad news.
The straw bales will have a lot of weight added with the clay coating.

I'm curious what your experience has been with them. Were you having some fail with overhangs?

From what I understand CMU blocks on paper seem like they should be fine.

CMU blocks are rated at 1700 pounds per square inch compression strength at minimum (and I'm reading that they go up more towards 2500 - 3000 psi).

For a wall of 7 bales high, at 60 pounds per bale (420 pounds) across 2 bricks (since bales are double the length), that's only 1.65 pounds per square inch (without the clay render or considering the roof and posts and all that).

Even if the weight of the coating and internal support was another 3000 pounds, that is still only adding another 12 pounds per square inch.

It just seems like such a minor weight on the CMU blocks. The bigger weight seems like it will be from the rest of the structure (the post and beam and roof and 2nd floor).

The problem is the building will be in Maine, which has a 5 foot frostline.... and I was planning on a basement / root cellar (since it has to go down so far anyway). So if I doubled up the CMU walls I'd have to take it all the way down (so a lot of extra work and money).

I'm trying to design a small cottage and was wondering if it would work to make the stem wall CMU blocks (on a wider poured footing).... but since the blocks aren't wide enough for straw bales, perhaps placing planks of wood on the CMU blocks (anchored down to the blocks) and the straw bale on the wood?

CMU blocks are 8 inches, and bales are 16, so the overhang would be just 4 inches on each side... so it seems like a thick enough piece of wood would be structurally sound (and the CMU blocks under would be solid filled).

Structurally the rest of the cottage is post and beam, so the straw is really just infill for the walls (and the straw would be attached to the posts also as well as the vertical rebar).

But I wonder if it's an issue having such a thin stem wall of just CMU blocks for the bales. Though I guess bales aren't really excessively heavy (especially when compared to a typical masonry wall)....

Anyhow, anyone have thoughts?

Welp, continuing on this idea....I started to play around with some actual designs.

I figured a 3 foot rise to a 2 foot back on the terraces should be enough for the retaining walls (even though they are just extra insurance, since there won't be moisture in the ground around the structure). That means the terraces themselves eat up 6 foot along the walls on each side....which made hallways far too large to make sense. So for hallways I would instead do steeper terraces with additional pole supports? Also making them longer than normal to avoid those sharp curves and leaving enough earth for the walls.

3 foot also happens to be the right height for kitchen (and other) countertops in a house....which means you could finish them with tabletops.

For work desks or bed (which are a little lower), cutting into the terraces a little made sense. Losing a little height I doubt would destabilize everything on the last terrace (and actually, for the bed, it is extended out to sleep on)  

Also, when I was considering it, doing sharp angles in the house wouldn't leave enough earth for structural support for the roof. This meant they needed more forgiving curves.

Here is the general idea....



And this gives a better view of what is happening with the walls.



And here is a view that gives a better idea of the living area. Seems spacious enough for a decent place.

For the roof I wasn't even going to use a pond liner, just beams, crossbeams on top of those and sod on top of that. Should be waterproof if done tightly, and the smoke from the open hearth I'd heat and cook with should preserve the wood and keep it from rotting.

I don't think that will be waterproof....and the wood, in contact with damp soil, will DEFINITELY rot. Trying to smoke it won't save the house from slowly deteriorating. Sod houses (or turf houses) usually have extremely thick walls and constantly need to battle with moisture.

And if you aren't waterproofing the surrounding soil, you are going to deal with water coming in through the walls (or even flooding). This will lead to erosion issues, insect problems, moisture / mold, frost heave....and poor insulation (damp soil is the worse).

Basically, the entire idea of the above is to try and tackle the common problems with dugout houses. To stabilize the conditions in the soil so you can stabilize the conditions inside for a livable space.

The main hall I was going to have level with the slope of the hill, the uphill side rooms a little more underground and the downhill side rooms poking out of the ground just enough to have windows at the top. Of course the uphill rooms would have to have steel beams or something to keep them from rotting and collapsing, and the downhill ones would need vertical corner posts since they're partially above ground. Also steel drainage pipes so the roof didn't leak where it interrupted the slope of the hill.

A larger structure in the hill would require excavation of essentially the top of the hill. And then you would need to rebuild it burying the rooms. But if also need to be careful the surrounding soil can support the roof (and the weight of all the soil you pile on top to rebuild the hill). So for that you need built walls....or, as I theorize, terraced retaining walls to increase the weight load / stability of the walls.

Since a hobbit hole isn't supposed to be nasty or dirty or wet, I was gonna cob the walls and paint over them with lime for waterproofing and that nice whitewashed look.

Well....cob needs to breath. That is why it doesn't work so well up against soil (ESPECIALLY damp soil, which will all absorb into the cob walls and be miserable). Lime won't waterproof anything either....you need to deal with the moisture in the soil or it will just seep into the house.

Don't look at hobbit houses for inspiration. That is fantasy from a fantasy writer. Look instead at traditional underground or earth bermed houses. These were the first kinds of houses and used for thousands of years by native people around the world. From the turf houses to the pit houses to all sorts of dug out shelters....right up to modern bunker design. There are a lot of designs that use the earth as part of the building, instead of just an obstacle the structure is fighting with (which conventional underground homes do now).

Bob, are you going to give this idea a go? I kinda want to see it!

Not for a bit, just thinking out loud at this point. Researching what others have done and where the pitfalls are.

I do think that you might be able to get by with less if you used a ditch witch or a small bucket on an excavator to dig a deep trench around the room, dropped a sheet of 2" foam board in vertically, and back filled the outside with gravel.

Yea, I was thinking along those lines. It isn't complete insulation (since there is still contact from under, but no real way to deal with that without digging out the walls....which turns the entire thing into an entirely different type of structure)....but hopefully enough to create a temperature grade to keep it comfortable inside? Dry earth does have some insulation properties (wet is horrible, but ideally the area around the structure should dry out).

Here is the current version of the idea.... terracing the walls means they can be supported by basic loose stone retaining walls (each one being 3 feet high, creating a natural seat / shelf surrounding the rooms (which can be turned into cabinets or closets, or just shelfing / seating)). And then a higher terrace that would give the entire room storage.



Roof wise "could" be done as vaulted....but this version is just super simple (the type used for quick bunkers). And shifts the load back a bit away from the opening. You would still get the sloped roof though, since the liner is placed on top of packed earth.

I saw a guy use a pond liner for a roof in Grand Designs S14E06 on Netflix, though it wasn't a pit house.

Thanks for the tip on the show! I was just checking it out and it looks like a great show.

I've been thinking about it more, and I guess there are a few ways you could evolve the design.

David Baillie is right, it looks like it is meant to go on a hitch (so the bulk of it is built onto a trailer, and then they added a front cabin with a smaller engine for smaller movement on its own. There are videos of it driving around a bit).


Then when parked, I guess you could do some type of stabilization (tie it down).

Perhaps a better idea would be to have the wheels on a hydraulic system that you could lower it fully onto the ground?