Ryan Mahony

Barbara Simoes wrote:Hey Sid, any update?  Has your tree fruited yet?  I have been so patiently waited for my trees to gain size.  They were planted in '21, so will be in the ground for four years this summer and I am getting very eager!  Some are very small, one is probably eight feet tall and others have so many side shoots and suckers that I don't know which is the original.

Barbara, most seedlings would take around 7 years to produce their first flowers. Some grafted varieties, like 100-46 for example, are known to be more precious and fruit within 2-3 years after planting at a much smaller size.

Also, based on data collected that I've seen, there tends to be approximately 70% males in a general group of seedlings. Female american persimmons typically produce fruit parthenocarpically (seedless without fertilization) so if you graft males to selected varieties you may get seedless fruit. Good luck and look for those flowers this spring!

Over on growingfruit.org, there is a member who uses paper clips to pop out cherry seeds. If you develop the technique, it seems like a low tech solution.

How about a simple one that makes sense.... Rhubarb?

I have my asparagus and rhubarb planted in the same area right below my Nikita's Gift persimmon tree. I am going to throw a few of the Mara Des Bois runners I have in the mix this year and see what happens. Good luck!

Hey William! At 20 years old, your peach trees are probably approaching the end of their lives. It would be wise to try and start some seedlings to graft to in the near future if you plan to keep your genetics. Some trees may live longer but most peach orchards expect 20-30 years max before starting over based on my research.

That said, peaches are notoriously challenging to graft, with the exception of chip budding from what I've read. Standard techniques like whip and tongue /cleft are usually 50% takes at best. I wish you luck!

P. S. I am not currently growing any stone fruit but have scions from a neighbor I am going to try to callus and root in the next few months. Sterile media in a dark room at about 50 degrees F, root hormone powder on scraped bark, and bottom heat to about 75 degrees was the method I saw success with on YouTube. You could try this if you have that technology available.

D Tucholske wrote:By the way, you bring up Papaws. How do those do where you are? I'm about level with you in NE Ohio & would consider getting some if I can get a clear cut answer on how they'd do here.

You are in prime pawpaw territory. I'd recommend just looking for the best tasting varieties, but avoiding the latest ripening varieties. Allegheny, Summer Delight, KSU Benson, NC-1, PA Golden #3, and Maria’s Joy would be my initial suggestions. Sorry for the super late response...

Bill Whipple wrote:I have had limited success grafting honeyberries. Maybe 5 successful grafts over 50 attempts. Some grafts are 5 years old now. Not sure if its compatability, or the fact that the bark is so thin and fragile? ...or it maybe timing? I am far from giving up as you will read.

Down here in WV im experimenting with some of the new genetics coming out and have had some luck with Blizzard last year producing fruit in 2 years on a graft with robust growth. If we can find selections that are closely related to our invasive species, that would improve our chances. I am actively growing out seed from plants that have taken to grafting and will start to graft from those when they are big enough to harvest scion. From there i hope to genetically select the most compatatable individuals.

The biggest tip i can offer mechanically is a trick i figured out last year wherein before i rind graft, i wrap the area with masking tape before i cut the trunk. This supports the extremely thin bark from tearing and will hold the scion. I can also get good pressure to hold the scion firmly in place.

I usually primp my bushes a couple of years ahead as well. The early growth of a plant will be wild and then the plant will send up straight leaders in the middle to get sun after about 3 years. I will cut all the early scraggly growth and give that central leader a year or two to establish apical dominance and all the plants energy. This will improve my odds as well.

We arent far from having extensive naturalized honeyberry plantations with no hole digging, irrigation, rabbit protection, etc.

Bill, what grafting technique do you use for this? I assume w&t or a cleft graft would work well, but I was thinking about trying my zenport style tool. Thank you for the tip on using tape for the bark.

This project reminds me of a few discussions on growingfruit.org about grafting blueberries onto sparkleberry to have blueberries in non acidic soil.

Please keep us updated on production and future graft compatability on your successes, as well as which cultivars you are using other than Blizzard.

Ed Saw wrote:Hello Ryan, I'm also from western PA and have spent some time in Maine. Oh, and I'm a newbie here! lol Where abouts in Maine? I lived right outside of Augusta in a small town called Winthrop.

Ed, my family is from the Blue Hill area. I have a friend living near Augusta who just moved up there for a new job!

Antonio Hache wrote:

Lauren Ritz wrote:

Ryan Mahony wrote:Antonio, be wary of planting too densely down the road once your trees reach bearing age. Make sure you get on a good pruning regimen and allow lots of sunlight to your leaves to prevent mildew and other diseases. I've seen countless stories of people regretting close planting and then thinning out later to pick a few good trees. Good luck!

Well that's the point, isn't it? Plant a lot, let nature thin the weakest, then thin to those with the traits you want?

Yes, that's the point. First I planted toooo densely. Then every 6 months I will check and choose. For example, right now I've got a lot of fennel growing. So if in some cocktail I have fennel and some weird tree growing, I will cut the fennel and leave the tree. And that is the way to proceed

On paper, I would say you are probably right. But in practice, do you feel that massively over-planting may actually be hindering the growth of your potentially viable seedlings by encouraging resource competition, both in space for roots as well as wasting the nutrients in the soil growing a majority of plants you intend to cull? I think what it seems you are doing is very interesting, I just feel like it might be a "two steps forward, three steps back" kind of scenario for long term productivity.

Antonio Hache wrote:

James Taylor wrote:Seems like a great project you have going. It seems like you have a lot of acres to work with in order to see what grows best.

Not a lot of acres, just half an acre. I am planting super dense ☺️

Antonio, be wary of planting too densely down the road once your trees reach bearing age. Make sure you get on a good pruning regimen and allow lots of sunlight to your leaves to prevent mildew and other diseases. I've seen countless stories of people regretting close planting and then thinning out later to pick a few good trees. Good luck!

Erin Vaganos wrote:

Ryan Mahony wrote:I wanted to add my inputs on seed starting from the perspective of different fruits that may be of interest, as well as a few resources available online.

Regarding apples, I've found on other forums (and was briefly touched on in this thread) that commercial orchards usually use crabapples as pollinators. This is great for high fruit production but not necessarily for seedling fruit quality breeding. If other high quality cultivars are used for pollination, there is a greater possibility of producing higher quality seedlings closer to the desired mother tree.

Ryan makes a good point about variable pollination with apples--I have been reading that some cultivars are also triploid and have three sets of chromosomes instead of two. This makes their pollen sterile so they can't pollinate other cultivars, and they also require compatible cultivars to pollinate them. This makes them seem a little picky, but they are supposedly very long-lived and fairly disease-resistant on their own. Just something to think about when experimenting.

Erin, some of the best "old" disease resistant apples are certainly triploid. Disease resistance is another great point, because down the road you never know what a seedling is going to do for you and what you may have to battle to get fruit.. To be clear, I'm not saying people should not propagate seed, I believe quite the opposite. I'm just saying that educating on the merits of grafting vs seedlings is a wise move. I have around 30 pawpaw seeds on heat right now that will likely all end up being grafted in a year or two depending on their vigor.