Casey McGriff

Yeah, telling people they have no chance is not very good motivation.

On another note, we are still talking about the financial aspect as the weakness in permaculture development or at least it seems to be the biggest hurdle. Making a living is important,, but many people I have seen try to cross that border end up losing or at least compromising the permaculture ethics. (no judgment here if this has happened)

Permaculture has to be like a walk in the woods.  Enjoy the air, the soil.  It is free, but it still appreciates your breath back (saving seeds for you and your neighbors garden for next year), your protection (maybe in the form of land ownership).
A companion to your life that is found most beneficial as a perspective (w action) to be shared.

I don't have any particular solutions I want to share for this conundrum and I wish all the best to those that have succeeded financially. But overall, its longevity seems to be more related to it coming through in your life and out into the world being taught as another tool.

And then those with the extra work ethic+desire can take it to that financial level.  

Blake Cothron wrote:Some people use vinegar or beer to acidify soil gently.  Not sure the exact ratios but you might look into it.

Share a beer with my soil,,!! I like your style

Maieshe Ljin wrote:One thing to note is that the older generations create the matrix in which the younger generations grow up and develop, to some extent.

The past two posts are inching closer I think.  The paradigm that has been created is a debt system.  Permaculture is an abundance system.  The internet is actually an abundance system (debatably so). (Just thought of that last note, so I will have to think on it before i can form it into this conversation)

Now that debt I am referring to has led to some amazing achievements socially, infrastructure, and opportunity.  But the cost has been environment, relationships, and body/mind resiliency etc.  And they are constantly trying to be paid back.  But,, are they, and how?

This is where I like the bake-off ideas and integretating with already existing ranchers/ farmers and generally socially available events.  Pop up events at homes, in yards.  Creating space for education as engagement.  This is a form of paying it back.  This is what led me to believe that it was possible to get out of the paradigm in the first place.  (That's whole nother story).  But these solutions must be made with long-term in mind.  How, when the debt (and sure finance is included) shows little slowing down?  Thats what localcommunity interaction and even individuals must figure it out.  Strong community bases that allow for newcomers to come/go without much effect on the presented experiences.

I do think permaculture will always be in the environmental movement category, even though its really about human beings.  So thats good.

But organizations help scale these activities up and many times make them long-term, but un-incorporated individs,, can have just as much impact with less,,, whats the term in electronics,,?? um,  ,,,  with less resistance.  

This has been fun blabbing with all you on this topic. It really is hard to see all the younger guys as anything other than screwed thru the lens of most of the paradigms that exist.  So its nice to read people who still care and found (finding) success in this world.  

This is a good question.

I think perm is still attractive enough. I mean, it never gets old eating the best food, transforming your space into abundance.  For some people, there is a a certain point where it can become just work. But even then it will always be a rewarding work. But not monetarily.  Yeah, exceptions.. but the biggest fail point I hear/read is that you can't pay your bills very well.  So this doesn't really answer your op,

But I think its important to understand what you are asking of people.  As a wwoofer you don't make anything.  As a starting farmer, you make debt.  Once you are established you can then start paying your bills.  Now I am not saying you don't get paid in other ways the moment you walk out of your pdc or step into your own community based project.  

So ultimately, yes, there is a solution to this that lies with system change.  But you can't hold your breath for that.  And I couldn't tell you here that there is something that needs to change with perma.  This is all just f4t.  

As far as OPs ?, you got to ask them.

Yeah, wwoofing can be fun. If you find the right school, that can be fun too.

But if you can't leave, are you just going to look for stuff in your area?  Cause if you are going to wwoof go at least a state over. Oh yeah, you have a job there, that would be difficultt.

Maybe figure out what you want for the next two years of your life.  It sounds like you already have some long term plans, so you can start working on that by making plans... or... you can figure out what you want that you 'can' do for the next couple of years.  For ex.  'I want more friends' might require you to go to places you haven't been too around your town or do something different.  You 'can' go to places, but you can't force make new friends.  Or if you are interested in wwoof then sign up and reach out to a few places (wherever, even ...uhh,, was it carolina,,??).  Even if you don't go now, then at least you have connected with them.  You can do that.  

PS

Found this ...  https://permies.com/t/270112/Gen-Permies

Put your trust in the potatoe, planted them late last fall. A little deeper than most do and came up after the frost ready to go.

Whatever happened to ya?  '22 seems like so long ago

Nice, I got first paragraph skills and and agree with 3rd.  Second one needs some work from me too. G luck