Gen Z Permies

I only found this site recently but I’ve really been enjoying reading about all the stories, advice, and experiences people have.

As a young person, I was wondering what other young people are doing so I wanted to create this thread for the Gen Z-ers out there (that’s birth years 1997-2012, roughly).

I’ll go first! I’m 22, live in California. Graduated college recently and now working at my first job. I’m in the suburbs, so unfortunately there’s not too many opportunities for permaculture-type stuff around here, but I’m trying to get serious with gardening for the next season — compost, cover crop, planning everything out, as much as I can do. In the next 5 years, my goal is to attend and graduate from law school. In the next 10 years, my goal is to own land somewhere in the states and build an off grid permaculture homestead.

Hello Ean, Welcome to Permies!

Ah, Yes! I vividly remember those days. I had the most profound dreams of living in some off-grid very rural existence.  I was lucky in that I had people around me who had essentially the same dream.  I was also lucky to find a job in an area highly conducive to a Permie lifestyle and where the real estate was not too out of control.

My thoughts are to wat plan.  Be flexible, but maintain focus.  I had to work extremely hard to make my dreams a reality, and it didn’t happen overnight.  But I am sure you can do it.

I am curious, how geographically flexible are you?  Genuinely, urban areas drive up home and land prices.

Eric

hi im also gen z

There's plenty of opportunities for permaculture in the suburbs, and that's probably one of the places that needs it the most. Permaculture lends itself very well to growing things at the edges of things: tree guilds, polycultures, treillissing on walls and fences.

If you're working in a place with stringent HOA rules, it might require a little bit of stealth and discretion (maybe not locating the compost pile in the front yard...),  but it can also end up having a tremendous impact as you inspire others, support pollinators, open up conversations about sustainable gardening, etc. Look into edible landscaping, better mulches (like ramial chip wood), soil building, container gardening... We have an urban section here on permies that can give you ideas as well.

If you look at the SKIP program, you'll also find that a lot of the skills are adaptable to urban or suburban life. We even have a PEA (Permaculture Experience for All) that is specifically for skills that one can acquire even in a small apartment. You can have months and months of fun without exhausting your possibilities.  

Also, look into community programs, public libraries or maker-spaces. One of the perks of living in more dense areas is that we can pool resources: not everyone needs to own their own sewing machine or welding setup. I'm currently learning to arc weld in such a maker space, and I'm having a lot of fun acquiring a new useful skill. Community building is also a huge part of permaculture.

(not a GEN-Zer, but I'm raising one She loves foraging with me in urban spaces, thrifting for cool clothes to customize, growing her own lavender patch, making her own skincare products using plants we grow and building stuff with her two hands in her school's Fab-Lab. )

Eric Hanson wrote:I am curious, how geographically flexible are you?

I’m looking to escape California. I believe that this state’s cost of living, fiscal, political, and environmental situations are all trending in the wrong direction.

Ean,

I understand escaping California for all the reasons that you mentioned.  Is there a place or a climate zone that you find attractive?  Also, how do you see law integrating into your Permie dreams?

Eric

Ean,

It is good that you are geographically flexible.  Do you have any idea where you would want to settle?  What type of climate you would find most attractive?  Do you intend for law to be a continuing part of your life?  If so, how close to a city do you think you need to be?

These are just a few thoughts that I have.  I am curious as to how you want to explore this aspect of your life.

Eric

I'm just gonna say its a lot of work to get established,
If you can pickup some experience with someone who has done
permaculture right it can be invaluable, you can try some
reputable woofing, (World Wide Opportunities on Organic Farms |  National WWOOF organizations are locally run non-profit associations, supporting sustainable farming, raising awareness and much more)  otherwise I would suggest it not to do it on your own, but find connections and build a team of enthusiasts.
good luck

Ean,

Building a little on what I mentioned earlier, I will give you a little background on what I did for my Permie dreams (even before I had even heard the word Permie).

For a little background, I grew up in Central Illinois, a section of the state that is absolutely flat with the exception of a creek valley here and there, and my home was far from Chicago which absolutely dominates the state.  I graduated high school and went to Southern Illinois University in Southern Illinois, a region that is dominated by hills and forests, not flat and dominated by corn and soybean fields.  I absolutely fell in love with Southern Illinois, but I eventually found a job (that I ended up hating) back in Central Illinois.  I did that job for about 6 months before going back to school to be a teacher.

Upon graduating (2nd time), I went looking for jobs in just about any part of the state except for the Chicago area or its suburbs.  This set me apart from most of my graduating class who wanted to head right back to the suburbs, mostly citing better pay.  And while it is true that most suburban jobs paid better than "downstate" jobs (oddly, even areas north of Chicago are termed "downstate!"), I avoided these like the plague for the following reasons:

1.  I could not see myself living in a Chicago suburb and being happy.

2.  I wanted to own at least some acreage, and I just can't see how I could ever have done that in the more urbanized region of the state.

3.  Living prices are drastically higher in the suburban area.  In fact, I am not so certain that the increased pay made up for the increased cost of living

4.  With that in mind, I set out to lower my cost of living as much as possible which I knew I could do outside of a suburban area.  Moreover, I believed that I could actually have more take-home pay owing to the lower cost of living.


As luck/fate/whatever would have it, I ended up finding a job in Southern Illinois at the very last minute.  The pay was a little bit less than suburban pay, but the cost of living was drastically less.  And I made this savings even better by knowing to look just a little outside of the town where I had my actual job.  In 3 years I had saved enough to put down a down payment for a house.  5 years after that, I was moving into a house I built on 9 acres.  I am hard pressed to think about how I could possibly have done this living in a suburban area.  

Now I am giving my experience of living in Illinois as a specific example, but I think that many of the basic premises apply to your reasoning in California.  I don't remember you saying what area of the state you lived in--was it Southern California?  I only ask about that region because of just how much of the population of the state is packed into that area.  But regardless, the fact that you are looking outside the state says to me that you are thinking somewhat along the lines of what I did when I first got started.


Good luck!  By all means, if you have further questions, do not hesitate to ask.

Eric

Eric Hanson wrote:Is there a place or a climate zone that you find attractive? Do you have any idea where you would want to settle? What type of climate you would find most attractive?

In terms of places, I think Missouri (Ozarks) and Appalachia are attractive, based on what I've read so far. As for climate zones, the thing is that I've never lived in a climate zone outside of California, so I guess I don't really have anything to compare it against. I will say that California weather seems to be pretty generous in that it rarely gets too harsh (i.e. the summer highs and the winter lows are not too extreme), so I'd imagine it would take some getting used to in other regions that are not like that. I think I have more of an idea about what areas I want to avoid -- namely, the northernmost and southernmost portions of the country; I don't want the extreme lows or the extreme highs.

Eric Hanson wrote:Also, how do you see law integrating into your Permie dreams? Do you intend for law to be a continuing part of your life? If so, how close to a city do you think you need to be?

Regarding law, I see that as something that could help me financially, as I understand that building a permaculture homestead is definitely not cheap, especially starting out. The law is, of course, something that I also find interesting. I think my ultimate goal is to be able to work as a lawyer without being in/near the city, to help my neighbors in the countryside and other people who don't live in the city. I figure there's a shortage of rural lawyers out there, and it is what Atticus did, after all. However, I feel that it may not be feasible or even desirable to go directly into that, and I may need/want to be a lawyer in the city before ever being a lawyer in the country.

Welcome to Permies, Ean!
Great idea for a thread! I want to know what y'all are doing, too! And what you're learning, and what ideas you're most excited about or intrigued by or want to try the most.

Luna Silva wrote:hi im also gen z

Luna, can you list some of the things you're doing? Because I think it's super helpful to see where people are starting out. To me, permaculture includes the things we do in the beginning to learn, even before we have our lives sorted out. Such as growing plants in pots and observing them. I think you've got valuable experience, and reading your list might help future Gen Z permies know they can start wherever they are - because you've done it, too.

Ean,

Ozarks/Appalachia is not a bad place at all to start a Permie dream.  The land prices are certainly cheaper than in California, there is abundant rainfall, and your choice of law as a profession is fortuitous as these areas typically have a deficit of lawyers.

Regarding the climate, these areas will certainly get colder that the temperatures that you are accustomed to.  I live just about exactly in between these two areas (Southern Illinois), and the area and climate are generally much like those of either of the two you mentioned.  In the winters, expect relatively short, mild winters, but we do get snow and temperatures definitely fall below freezing.  So whether or not this is a mild winter to you depends very much on what type of winters you have been accustomed to.  Summers are another matter altogether.  Summer highs regularly get into the mid to upper 90s, occasionally getting above 100 degrees.  That might sound normal to you, but what is probably not normal to you is the oppressive humidity that we get in the summer.  It is truly no joke!  Take it seriously.  

That said, I love the area and while I do not like the humidity, I love all the other things that the region has to offer.

Eric

Oh this is a fun post! I’m a Gen-Z. Just barely. I’m 27 and feel like a heck of a newbie on here. My journey in this world of agriculture/homesteading is definitely just beginning. As I currently live in the city, most of what I’ve focused on is what I would call “inside work”. Not necessarily indoors but in the soul.
I’ve been slowly shifting my ideas around, about life, people and myself. I am developing a greater respect and curiosity for people, nature, the earth, time, seasons, societies, natural development, education, mental health, physical health... I’ve spent a great deal of time trying to learn what helps humans thrive. I’ve been trying to create, inside myself, the environment I want to see come alive around me. That basically ends up looking a lot like natural living (at least to an extent, I was raised in a city after all and I enjoy my hot water on demand) 😅 taking the time to enjoy the wonders of being alive together, homeschooling/raising children as a way of life and an enjoyment, community building by working together, with the earth and the bountiful resources life supplies.

I realize this all sounds very philosophical and not terribly hands on. My hands on things come in the forms of big long lists of resources for homeschooling, a plethora of books I plan to have as a library so that I never stop learning, a ceramic pot I practice cooking in, making healthy cleaners, and a million other small things that will eventually become the lifestyle I want.
So here’s hoping it comes together!

Hi Ean! I'm Gen Z!

I'm also 22 and currently live in Montana. I can't say I have much permaculture street credit, but I'm working towards finding ways to use my current living situation, etc. to learn and do more!!! I've gotten into foraging the last few years, tried my hand at some different fermenting techniques, and done some various woodworking projects. I've gardened a bit, and currently am working on a DIY hydroponics system to grow in the winter!

I'm looking to move in the near future to Wyoming or Colorado to be closer to family and to be able to one day afford land! I'm also hoping to use the move as an excuse to at least semi switch out of my engineering job (it's not all that school had promised it would be).

I'd love to connect in some way! It would be fun to see your gardening progress and have a young permie friend!

Hi Ean & others!

I'm 23, living in SW Colorado and thought I'd share a little about my permaculture-life strategy (so far) and hopefully revive this thread!

I studied environmental science in college. As you can imagine, it was a bit of a depressing course of study, but through my learning I came to the understanding that changing our food systems, and changing our built environment had to be two of the most powerful levers in creating solutions for this climate-humanitarian polycrisis we're facing.

I spent a lot of time during college working with aquaponic systems, which got my foot in the door with sustainable agriculture. I was also into natural building, making a pilgrimage out to Taos to see the earthship biotecture community (they have their downsides, but are eye catching and useful I think as an entry point for many natural builders). I was lucky to be in school on a scholarship, and graduated early with no debt. From there, I set out to live on my bike for the summer and plan next moves.  [the lesson here: take time, if you can, and think strategically so you don't get trapped in employment that's out of alignment with your values]

Next steps turned out to be a strawbale building internship with Community Rebuilds in Moab, UT where I lived in a strawbale bunkhouse and learned to build affordable housing for local folks. Beginning to gain skills was exciting and I made many connections while there that I still maintain. It was from that point that I moved to a little town in SW Colorado, and went back to farming. First hydroponics, then organic regenerative market gardening. I invested in a Permaculture Design Certification and bought an old van to live in. Parked it out on the farm where I worked and got to live for cheapppp while learning tons. [Farming while actively in a PDC - mine was 8 months long - was huge. I was able to actively apply my learning each month and think more critically about what I was doing]

The farm season ended, and it was too cold to stay in my van for the winter, so I decided to use a bit of the money I'd saved and go to India to study vernacular architecture (mud building, bamboo framing, stone building etc.) and practice my permaculture design skills. I spent several months at a school in the foothills of the Himalayas called Dharmalaya (check out their website, and sister-school in Durango, CO) learning to manually pug adobe, and plaster with cow manure slurries.

This past summer, I returned to CO and leveraged a connection from my time in Moab to get a job at a local design + build firm that specializes in affordable housing, resource conscious construction methods, and education. It's a dream, and I'm delighted to work with visionary people who prioritize our community and planet, not just profit. I run a little pottery and earth building business on the side, with sporadic projects and community markets to make a little extra income, while cultivating creative skills.

This brings me to my current scheme, which is *truly* affordable housing, specifically for Gen Z folks. I've just purchased an 470sq ft, 1966 Mobile Home in a little park in the town where I live. It cost 40k, plus $400 in lot rent each month. Mind you, median home prices in this town are currently 670k and climbing every year... The mobile home has two bedrooms, and I'm able to rent out the second one to cover all of my ownership costs (lot rent, insurance, utilities).  For a low price, I'm able to have warm, reliable shelter in a walkable community (5 mins to downtown, less to the nearest grocery store). Not to mention, 'open space' requirements means there's an empty grass lot right out my front door, on which I'm planning to start a community garden.

I'm wondering why more people our age aren't tapping into the aging housing stock of mobile home parks as a solution for affordable housing, skill building and living in community. I see and interact with my neighbors frequently. I have a huge project list that's going to expand my construction skillset massively (lots of natural material retrofits, starting with clay on the interior walls). And I am not bleeding out money on rent each month... I understand that there's a stigma around 'trailer parks' and the people in them being 'trailer trash', but what if our generation started to see this as an opportunity to create affordable community housing and redefined what trailer park living means?

There's also a big push to convert trailer parks to "Resident Owned Communities" [ROCs] which basically entails the residents of the park getting together, applying for a loan (entities like ROC USA have funding pools specifically for this) and then purchasing the park from the current owner, after which they use all lot rent payments going forward to pay off the mortgage on the land. After purchase, residents become responsible for park maintenance, but the land beneath them is owned by them and there's no risk of it being purchased by a developer, who hikes up their lot rent and pushes people out of their homes. There are many moving success stories about this conversion process, I'd highly recommend googling ROCs, as well as watching the documentary "A Decent Home" (available for free on Youtube).

The company I work for is beginning to do prefabricated straw structural insulated panels (like those made by New Frameworks in Vermont). I want to develop a design for a HUD-certified manufactured home, that's energy efficient and carbon-storing. Interior and exterior walls could be clay plastered. The whole thing can be flat packed on a truck and shipped anywhere in the country (although regionally is best) and built in under a week. To make the deal even sweeter, many states have funded 'mobile home replacement' programs. Here in Colorado, the department of local affairs (DOLA) administers a program offering up to 55k per-unit for mobile home replacement.

What if we developed a network of builders who could share plans, obtain funding, build the panels off site, and then work in small crews to assemble replacement housing in mobile home parks. We could learn the necessary skills quickly and work with local trades people to do the technical/permitted work, we could have a framework for teaching natural building skills and building science that would be highly replicable, and best of all, we'd be building community and creating healthy, energy and resource efficient homes.

Apologies for the ramble, but I'd love to hear thoughts from my fellow young folks who feel like homeownership is unattainable, but are yearning for community and secure housing. What am I missing? How can we come together and make this happen?