Sara Hartwin

I watched Day 1, Session 1 of 133 hours of video - PDC and Appropriate Technology Course today.

I'm curious to see how or whether my mindset and/or understanding change over time, so I started this thread to record and discuss that. (I won't discuss or quote specific course content here - there's a thread available for that once you have access to the videos.) This is my first PDC of any sort.

My starting point
I currently understand permaculture as a land and resource management system that works in conjunction with and supports natural processes in a non-exploitative way. It "makes use of", but not "at the cost of", in order to produce abundance and diversity which increase over time.

In this system, "resources" aren't limited to land, money, water, plants, animals, or climate. People, time, relationships, knowledge, personal mental/physical/emotional energy, community, and probably lots more are all things that can be cultivated, nurtured, tweaked, or nudged.

I appreciate all your thoughtful feedback! So far it sounds like there's no need to make a change.

In general, I too think the more open and matter of fact we are about things like this the more helpful it is.

I've been having second thoughts for some time about the title of my thread in the personal challenges forum (https://permies.com/t/249742#2322364). I don't have a disability or chronic ailment, and I would never want to minimize or negatively normalize the daily challenges of folks who do. I think I might have been too hasty in appropriating the spoons concept. I would be open to changing the title of the thread if that would be appropriate. What do you (staff and community members) think?

6 months-plus update
Too long; didn't read summary: irony and epiphany, all those things your mom said were probably true, be good/kind to yourself

It took me a while to get out of hypervigilant performance mode

Oh, past-Sara - I could laugh and cry for you!
When I wrote this, I was still deep in that mode. Watchful, tense, performance-conscious. And in denial, apparently?
I think my "Unsafe!" trigger got tripped by all the stress of a new situation. My system-default method to secure my safety is to get other-approval through performing, achieving, being capable/knowledgeable, succeeding - in short, spending lots and lots of energy trying to make people happy. Of course that's futile, but I've never been able to convince my brain. Exhausting, too!

Time probably helped - unfamiliarity wears off with time.
What really helped was a mindset switch. I encountered a concept which helped me realize how well I'm being taken care of in life. If I really believe all my needs will be met, then I don't need to spend effort manipulating someone else's thoughts about me to keep myself safe. I think sinking into that realization took a load off. Maybe brain can detach from that people-pleasing fallacy now?
(This doesn't absolve me of responsibility to do what I can for myself, or to speak up when my needs aren't being met. But it does point out where I was overreaching my responsibility - if that makes sense.)


I have exactly zero new, flashy, miracle answers for the original question. I seem to just keep reinforcing all the same, old boring ones - because they work, of course.
You know - the kind of stuff moms might say at one time or another:

Eat your veggies!

I aim for a variety, as well as plenty of protein, extra chia seeds, and plenty of liquids through the day.

Go to sleep!

I'm in bed an hour before I want to be asleep. Chamomile tea is a bedtime practice. The hours haven't changed but I'm not actively pursuing a different shift right now. Something might open up later.

Get some exercise!

GMB Elements is my favorite way to stretch, and it moves my joints in ways work doesn't.

Go outside and play!

I try to remember to look at the stars every morning when I leave. If I feel up to it, I take a nature walk with my husband on my midweek day off.

Buy some decent shoes!

Feet that don't hurt mean I can do more at home, if I feel like it. My feet started hurting about a month ago. The problem is half solved (supportive inserts); part 2 of the solution (brand new shoes, instead of gently used) should be arriving soon.

I'm still really tired when I come home. I do manage a few necessary tasks each week that feed the "accomplished" feeling. I have one sewing project going; I'm excited when I get one step done a week on it. Cooking supper for us is out of the question, so far.

Probably my current approach can all be boiled down to two bits:
Doing the things I know support my well-being,
and
doing something I think they call "giving myself grace". In other words, adjusting expectations and making peace with reality.

Is this similar to what you all remember?


(source)

A blurb from the Northline Express article:

Heatilator fireplaces, also known as "old-style zero clearance fireplaces", are a combination of heater and ventilator and are by their nature, fireplaces that circulate air. Old-Style Heatilator Fireplaces use a special venting system that draws in cool room air and releases it as warmer air. The air that is in the venting system never goes through the firebox so it doesn't get fouled with ash, smoke, or other unpleasant odors. Instead of pushing air through the firebox, Old-Style Heatilator Fireplaces route air around the firebox and allow it to heat, without any of the drawbacks associated with traditional fireplaces.

Welcome to Permies, Ean!
Great idea for a thread! I want to know what y'all are doing, too! And what you're learning, and what ideas you're most excited about or intrigued by or want to try the most.

Luna Silva wrote:hi im also gen z

Luna, can you list some of the things you're doing? Because I think it's super helpful to see where people are starting out. To me, permaculture includes the things we do in the beginning to learn, even before we have our lives sorted out. Such as growing plants in pots and observing them. I think you've got valuable experience, and reading your list might help future Gen Z permies know they can start wherever they are - because you've done it, too.

paul wheaton wrote:All good?

Good from my account's perspective! It appears in "My stuff", and I'm able to access the listings thread and all 4 of the vid/discussion threads.

I think I will not attempt to describe how I feel about having access to this, and just post this instead:


"Yippeee!!!"



I pledge to be a knowledge-sponge.

I am glad we are wrestling with this together on Permies.
I understand why it's in the MD forum, but I want to openly acknowledge that we are discussing some of the most meaningful UNdrivel ever.

I came out of a culture which (mis)placed high value on forgiveness but low value on personal accountability. I have had to reexamine my beliefs and practices.
I think of forgiveness in two contexts to help me understand it.
1. Debts and owing
2. Trespass and consequence/punishment

Sometimes I have asked myself the question, "Does anybody owe me anything?" to help me know if I'm holding something against someone.

The second sense seems more complicated, but the answer for me lies in my belief. I will also be vague, but the concept that no injustice goes unnoticed or unavenged takes the question of ultimate punishment out of my hands. That honestly feels like a burden lifted.

I think it is possible to forgive and press charges, if the trespass warrants it. (consequences; allows for personal accountability)
I think it is possible for me to forgive without the offender asking for it or ever being aware they have been forgiven.
I think in the case of an interpersonal relationship, when words hurt so deeply, it is my responsibility to speak up. The highest, purest form of this I can imagine is:
1. I am hurt by someone's words.
2. I alert them to the effect of their words, BUT
- I do so without expectation of anything (apology, change of behavior) in return. Whether they never do it again is out of my control and I know that.
- I release the need to "punish" them (treating them the same way, getting back at them*, withholding affection/interaction from them).
- I am honest with myself that it may happen again, and take measures to prepare for that if needed (setting boundaries, evaluating the relationship, etc).
3. When the memory comes up, I re-acknowledge the pain if need be. I remind myself I have forgiven them and done what was my responsibility to do. All of this is done in private.
4. I allow for time to heal, and space if needed.

Perhaps that's not the highest possible way of forgiving. But it feels like the next highest thing within my reach for where I currently am on the forgiveness/maturity scale.
The most challenging part for me is speaking up.
I think between 1 and 2 a lot of introspection happens, along the lines of what Inge wrote:

For me 'forgiveness' means too I will do some thinking on my own behaviour.

I also think attempting to understand why the other person might have said/done the thing that hurt us shortens the distance to forgiveness.
I imagine it feels like peace, and calm, inside.

Some words hurt worse than others. Sometimes it depends on me (how tired I am, my mood) whether it bothers me or not. I deeply respond to tone of voice and volume, and often I have to remind myself the intent behind the delivery is far different (towards benevolence) than my perception of it is (towards harshness).

*Perhaps this is what "forget" originally meant in the admonition to "forgive and forget". Perhaps the opposite of forgetting is, "I remember what you did to me. When I get the chance, I'm going to do the same to you so you know how it feels."

Oxen and elephants - what other animals might be worked with to help move heavy loads on Permie homesteads?

I can think of horses, mules, donkeys, goats.... what are some others?

I'm wondering about pros and cons of each - which are harder or easier to train, which can have multiple purposes, what are the costs involved, for which of them can you grow a majority of their food...?

I've heard some are better suited to certain types of terrain - for instance, aren't mules said to be generally more sure-footed?

Here is a more recent link to the first chapter of the book Miracle Apples.
This is now on my to-be-read list!
Has any one read it who can review it for our Book Review Grid? (This thread has all the info for writing up a review).

Akinori Kimura, apple grower:

(source)