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Unapparent disability

John F Dean

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posted 11 months ago

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I just saw a picture Pearl posted with a box on her head. It triggered some thoughts regarding unapparent disabilities. Yes this is an area of study, and this group of disabilities is some of the most difficult to cope with. The most significant issue is that most people don’t really believe you have a disability. I mean, if you can carry a box on your head, then you must be pretty healthy. I have gone blind 2x in my life, yet I am still questioned as to why I wasn’t involved in contact sports. Like Pearl, my wife has a shopping list of health problems, yet she has had the police called on her for using a handicapped parking spot … even with the placard hanging from her sun visor. I have had people be openly offended when A diabetic has turned down a dessert. One of the problems is that there are no visual cues. In the case of my wife, she can walk very well …until she doesn’t. So, she keeps a foldable cane in her purse.

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Pearl Sutton

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YES. Invisible health issues are the worst. I tell the people I work with "some days you'll wonder why I say I'm disabled, some days you'll wonder how I even got out of bed." I tend to, because I'm me, dress cute when I go out if I can, it helps my self esteem, which gets very low sometimes, I do it most when I feel worst. People who actually know me look at an excellent outfit and say "oooh, bad day..." People who don't know me think those are my best days. Quite often my best days I look like hell, because I'm not hiding behind my outfit, and you might be actually seeing ME, not my public persona.

Also people don't realize that sometimes they don't even see me out in the yard for weeks, because I can't get out there. They don't see me at something I wanted to go to, because I couldn't. More than once I have sat and stared at the walls, knowing something I really wanted to do was going on, and I can't make it down the front steps, not to mention any further.

They don't SEE that part. I hide it well, I have learned that if you scream too much, people avoid you. And if tell them the truth without making it sound like a joke, they get upset. I hide it. I wish I could be myself, but I have learned I can't be.

And I do cope as best I can any day, if that means I"m on canes, so be it, I can be out, I'll accept the canes. It often takes me hours to get ready to go out even someplace small, between making sure the health landmines are defused as much as possible, and that my clothes aren't going to make it worse, and that I'm mentally prepared for dealing with people who have no clue I'm holding on by my toenails. It takes a while some days.

John is right, there often are not the cues people expect. I'm not in a wheelchair, then of COURSE I can walk across the store, right? Umm. not always. Some days yes. Next time, I might ask for someone to go get the thing I want that's way over there, because I really CAN'T do it, even though I did it last week. And that's not something people understand.

It's a serous problem, and it hurts mentally AND physically, and I wish I knew how to change it.

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r ranson

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posted 11 months ago

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https://hdsunflower.com/uk/insights/post/for-people-with-non-visible-disabilities

I found this idea interesting. Wearing a symbol of a sunflower on a pin, broach, lanyard, etc, to show one might need extra help.

I don't know how widely recognized it is, but it would be nice to have something so that people don't feel the need to curse me out when I use my disability parking pass on bad pain days.

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Pearl Sutton

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Me being me, if I'm pushed (only if I'm pushed, but I sometimes am) about things like desserts, or why won't I do something I did yesterday, tend to tell people WAY MORE than they ever wanted to hear about ALL the factors involved with that decision, the consequences of me doing what they want me to, and end it with something snarky like "So I'll be HAPPY to do what you want me to, provided you do all of these items for me to make it so I can cope with the fallout from it."

Not nice, no. But I get frustrated. I'm doing my best to protect myself, let me do what I have to do without harassment.

I have wished SO MANY TIMES that I had a cable like a USB cable, that I could connect to me, and connect to another person, that would let them feel EXACTLY what I feel, NOW tell me I should be able to cope with what you want me to do. They lack data, and I can't give it them in a way they can't deny. I wish I could. I guarantee there are some days that I manage to go out and do stuff, that if someone else was suddenly hooked up to my pain, they would hit the ground screaming. And all I could say to them is "No, this is a day I am coping. It gets much worse. "

Sorry, this is a major issue in my life, it's hard to not rant.

Carla Burke

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posted 11 months ago

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What's super frustrating is when it's your own family, who are the worst offenders. (For me, it's my mom. )

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Eric Hanson

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I think my insomnia can fit into this category. It got severe enough that I had to go on disability for two years—the worst, most humiliating years of my life. But problematically, insomnia does not fall cleanly into the categories of physical health or mental health but somewhere in between, and medical practitioners, insurance agencies and the like don’t really like to touch it. Technically I have the diagnosis of depression and anxiety, but that was to achieve the aim of getting treatment for my insomnia and the diagnosis is not really accurate. However, once diagnosed, the diagnosis is permanent.

Even my employers wanted to side-step my insomnia by telling me that I simply drank too much coffee. It should be noted that the administer who made that comment has since been fired for unrelated reasons.

Today my insomnia is under control, but for the longest time I did not know if I could ever return to work again and disability insurance stopped making payments because they believed that my ailment should have been over by that point.

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John F Dean

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I suspect it hits home especially hard when there is anyone close to you that you discover just doesn’t get it. And, far too often, people don’t understand the chain reaction that can be set off.

Hi Eric, I just read your post. It fits well with the point I was trying to make ….such as , OK, I get it…you can’t sleep. So why do you feel it’s not safe to drive, and why can’t you work? Sometimes it is difficult for people to connect all the dots.

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To do is to be ..Nietzsche
Do be do be do…Sinatra
Scooby dooby do …St. Thomas

Pearl Sutton

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posted 11 months ago

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John F Dean wrote: people don’t understand the chain reaction that can be set off.
....
the point I was trying to make ….such as , OK, I get it…you can’t sleep. So why do you feel it’s not safe to drive, and why can’t you work? Sometimes it is difficult for people to connect all the dots.

And that is when I get irritable and explain how short term effects turn into long term effects that make it all infinitely worse. In excruciating detail.....

Things that are just a nuisance when they are short term (using sleep for an example) "I didn't sleep much last night" = "irritable and brain fogged all day" turn into long term health and sanity hazards when they become long term "I haven't had more than 3 hours sleep a night for over a year" = "I can't focus enough to stay in my own lane, my reaction time is like being in molasses, and I am a serious hazard to other people, as well as myself, so no, I cannot "just drive to the store and get this."

The chain reactions get complicated and horrifying, and I have had to put a lot of work into learning how to keep them from starting, or escalating, to minimize the effect. I might not be able to get enough sleep that I'm safe to drive to the store. I CAN make sure that when I do get to the store I get everything I need, so I do not have to risk driving when I cannot do so safely. I CAN make a deal with the neighbor that I will give her home grown tomatoes if when she's running to the store, she calls me first to see if I need something. I CAN make appointments at the time of day that I'm most likely to be able to drive, and reschedule if I cant do it that day.

It gets old. It gets tiring. And people don't understand how much work it really is.....

John F Dean

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posted 11 months ago

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I suspect this is why I avoid face to face interactions. The one person I have had the most contact with over the past year, other than my wife, is our family doctor. I get tired of explaining what I see as basics. I find repeatedly explaining basic “if then” relationships to be exhausting.

To be is to do …Kant
To do is to be ..Nietzsche
Do be do be do…Sinatra
Scooby dooby do …St. Thomas

Riona Abhainn

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As someone who has both visible and invisible disabilities I understand. I work hard to do my best at managing things and sometimes I do indeed have to explain things to people. They do forget easily, and I remind myself they're human and make mistakes. I'm an extravert so I need others around me in order to feel okay, so I'm willing to explain things, to a certain degree at least, I mean people don't need all my details but I do understand why they need some in order to understand why.

The thing that embarasses me about myself is when, because of my own brain differences, I occasionally come upon someone who has so much going on with their own brain differences that I can't cope with all their triggers etc. and have to limit the friendship because its pressing my own "no-no buttons". On one hand I feel like a bad person, but on the other hand there are only a few situations in which people are "too much" for me, it could definitely be worse, so I try and be kind to myself but know when to push myself and when to just allow my brain to do what it does.

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John F Dean

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The problem comes about when I have to repeatedly explain the same things to the same people. For example, I mentioned that I have gone blind 2x in my life. I still have 20/800 vision in my right eye. I was at a convention when a CEO of an organization stepped out of an elevator on my right side, and I ignored her. She was hopelessly offended. Now, she knew about my vision limitation, but it didn’t matter.

Now, one incident on one day really doesn’t bother me. The real problems appear when it happens 20x a day with often the same people. Sticking with the vision issue, my “ thoughtless” has repeatedly offended people when they are looking for something, and it is “ right in front of me”. Well, actually it was to my right. when I am driving I scan the road by turning my head, but if I am not in motion , I have less concerning about bumping into something or someone.

In the end, it just becomes less frustrating to avoid some people.

To be is to do …Kant
To do is to be ..Nietzsche
Do be do be do…Sinatra
Scooby dooby do …St. Thomas

Christopher Weeks

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posted 11 months ago

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I just saw this elsewhere and it reminded me of this thread.

ChronicPain.jpg

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Pearl Sutton

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posted 11 months ago

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Christopher: YES
I'm glad someone is aware of it. If we actually show the pain, it just drives people away, makes doctors think you are trying to get pain meds (and they don't understand when I refuse to take any of them) and most mental health professionals want you medicated.

Showing pain is a medicatable offense.
Hard to work with your body with that kind of conflict, easier to hide it.

I can keep a straight face through things that would put most people on the floor. If I hit the floor, people freak out and call an ambulance who don't want hear "I'm fine, this is normal for me...." You learn to hold against a LOT of things.

Deane Adams

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I was somewhat shocked last month in an email with a community looking for new members, when told they would not consider a handicapped person. I don't think that I'm disabled or handicapped, I do move about at times slowly and have some range of motion issues after cancer treatment.

I have not yet sent an answer back, I'm still asking myself, am I handicapped??? I don't drive due to the number of heart attacks that I have had, so I don't have the parking lot show downs that others go through.

I do use a cane when grocery shopping, mostly to reach items on the top shelf or the very bottom one, by turning the cane around using the handle as a hook.

I still ask the question almost everyday, and I try to look at myself in an honest way. I really don't know if I am handicapped.

PS, I have not yet sent an answer to the community person, I don't trust myself yet to be nice! But I'm still laughing each day!!!

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John F Dean

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posted 11 months ago

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Can you compensate for the limitations you have? If so, you have a disability and not a handicap. This is according to the training I received. No, this does not mean that the people who wrote up that information you shared know there could be a difference.

To be is to do …Kant
To do is to be ..Nietzsche
Do be do be do…Sinatra
Scooby dooby do …St. Thomas

Carla Burke

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posted 11 months ago

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In my world, 'I can't' doesn't necessarily mean I don't know how, I tried and gave up, I don't have time, or I'm being a lazy/ whiney brat. The vast majority of the time, it means 'there is no way in hell that I can push my body (&/or brain) to do whatever it is, that's being asked of me. That might be standing at the sink to wash the dishes, doing a single load of laundry - or just picking up a sock.

To elaborate a bit, on my comment about my mom, she never understands why I can't (or in her eyes, won't) do something, responding with,"You think it's hard now, just wait till you're my age!" The only maladies she's ever struggled with was occasional headaches and seasonal allergies, until the last 8yrs. So, she's always just decided I was lazy, when I couldn't do 'more'. In the last 2yrs, she's become a *little* more compassionate, since she very nearly died, and is dealing with some chronic fallout, but still falls back into the old mindset, frequently. Just last night, she threw that old 'just wait till you get to my age'. I responded with a very dry, "I'll never get to your age, until 20yrs after you die. If we are in a competition over who hurts more, I can't say it's one I want to win." Nothing I say will ever help her understand, and frankly, I don't want her to *know* how it feels - I just want her to stop thinking her age automatically ensures that she hurts worse, or that I couldn't possibly be in pain, simply because to her, I don't LOOK like there's anything wrong.

Jane Mulberry

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Deane Adams wrote:I was somewhat shocked last month in an email with a community looking for new members, when told they would not consider a handicapped person. I don't think that I'm disabled or handicapped, I do move about at times slowly and have some range of motion issues after cancer treatment.

That is not a community any sensible person is likely to want to join! So what happens if someone once they are there gets sick, or develops age-related limitations? Would they be asked to leave?

I'm only 65! That's not to old to learn to be a permie, right?

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Carla, my husband's mom was just like that. She seemed to honestly believe that none of her children had the right to be ill unless she gave permission.

Hubby deals with multiple disabilities, most not visible. He got his first diagnosis of a chronic, progressive form of arthritis and connective issue disorder aged 26. He's lived with severe mental health issues for about as long, and was finally diagnosed as being autistic aged 54. Soon after that, he was also found to be severely anemic, needing blood transfusions and then iron infusions due to inflammatory gut disease. Last year, his heart almost stopped and he had to have a pacemaker. Every day, he struggles with fatigue, constant joint pain, stiffness, PTSD flashbacks, severe anxiety, and other issues. But she claimed he couldn't possibly be ill and was just attention seeking!

I'm only 65! That's not to old to learn to be a permie, right?

Pearl Sutton

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Jane Mulberry wrote: So what happens if someone once they are there gets sick, or develops age-related limitations? Would they be asked to leave?

Nasty statistic I heard once, lots of us get fibromyalgia diagnoses, simply because it's a diagnosis they can give easily, that means nothing but "You don't fail any obvious tests and I don't know." A study was done, 85% women who were in a relationship when they got that diagnosis were single after 5 years.

I was single within 4 months. Ah well, I've always been an overachiever

(with bad taste in men, apparently)

Carla Burke

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Oh, Jane, I'm so sorry to hear that - and yes, my mom has often hit me with that one, too. I had to keep her at arm's length, for a lot of years, to keep some peace.

Jane Mulberry

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Pearl Sutton wrote:
Nasty statistic I heard once, lots of us get fibromyalgia diagnoses, simply because it's a diagnosis they can give easily, that means nothing but "You don't fail any obvious tests and I don't know." A study was done, 85% women who were in a relationship when they got that diagnosis were single after 5 years.

I was single within 4 months. Ah well, I've always been an overachiever
(with bad taste in men, apparently)

That one certainly wasn't a keeper, Pearl, so blame him, not yourself! That's the real test of a relationship -- what happens when things get tough, when things change, when it's not all unicorns and rainbows any more. Unfortunately, the weak and selfish will always bail out. You deserve better than that!

I'm only 65! That's not to old to learn to be a permie, right?

John F Dean

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Hi Pearl,

Yes, hidden. Unapparent. There are many ways for those terms to manifest

I refer to your dx as the disease du jour. Or, when I am less generous …garbage diagnosis. Schizophrenic is another common one.

Here is a lesson I was taught …and I substantiated by reading many old records. LD. …learning disability. In the very early 60s one might receive a dx of mild mental retardation. Might….unless of course your family had power in the community. Then the dx was Learning Disabled. In present times, the term Learning Disability has a real meaning.

I was on a team once that reviewed old long term institutionalized people. One older lady had a rather violent record. She physical attacked staff at every opportunity…..but only staff. Short story is she was a young teen and got pregnant. Her parents figured she had to be insane to get pregnant ( why am I thinking her father might be more involved)…so they put her in a state facility. Her son. Yea, he was there too.

There are far too many things that happen that don’t add up…much can be hidden.

To be is to do …Kant
To do is to be ..Nietzsche
Do be do be do…Sinatra
Scooby dooby do …St. Thomas

Eric Hanson

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I thought I would add a hidden disability that hides in plain sight. That disability is—disability, as in being forced into taking disability.

When I went onto disability, I did so kicking and screaming. I did not want to go. I tried every legal maneuver I could think of to avoid going, but ultimately I had to go (I was evaluated by a fitness-for-duty specialist who I still think was determined to see things that weren’t there but that’s another issue). At the beginning of my time on disability I absolutely climbed the walls, bored out of my mind but humiliated about going outside as I didn’t want anyone to actually see me on a school day just being at home. I paced the halls until I eventually just quit. At that point I just sat aside much of the inherent ambition that I had as a young man.

To come back, I had to be evaluated again, this time by a different evaluator who was more charitable towards me. He approved me, but warned me about how difficult it can be to restart after being of duty for over a year (and two in my case). And he was right. The world moved on. Upon my return, I noticed that many of the teachers I worked with had left (mostly retired). Students didn’t know who I was and the administrators and walked on eggshells around each other.

And I only came back to teach psychology. I was pleased to know that there was a pent-up demand for psychology in my absence as my designated substitute, while an excellent history teacher who I thoroughly respect, had absolutely no experience in psychology and was completely unprepared and unqualified to teach it. I actually took more than a little bit of satisfaction from these events as the administration had always assumed that psychology was just a class where we all sat around and talked about our feelings and therefore anyone could do it. The administration (with whom I had become quite frustrated) actually had to cancel psychology and for the first time in over four decades, psychology was not offered. Suddenly, they needed me.

But my insomnia was still severe. I could have terrible nights and fake my way through an hour. It was not until late spring of 2018 that my insomnia finally subsided enough that I felt capable of coming back full time. I planned on mentioning that the next year, but that of course was the beginning of COVID and lockdowns. I did tell my administration that I was ready to come back full time and their response was basically that they just wanted me to stay as only a psychology teacher. They reluctantly admitted that I had a right to come back (a right defined by law and contract!) and they strongly suggested that I come back to two sections (1 psychology, 1 U.S. History) first. I accepted so as to not make waves. The next year I told them that I was ready to come back full time and the superintendent insisted that it would be better for me to ease my way in as there was no reason for me to come back full time unless I was trying to “run up my retirement” but that I was not near that point. At that point I insisted that I needed to finally restart my career and that I had been too convenient too long. Reluctantly, they reassigned me back to full-time status.

But I did make the best of those not-quite full time years, partly by finishing my graduate work and maxing the pay scale, something that took effect this year. And this year I have a student observer and next semester I will have another student observer who is scheduled to be my student teacher next spring. Not every teacher gets a student teacher. I had several before my insomnia consumed me, and I am extremely pleased to be getting them again.

But for all of those years, just having been placed on disability in the first place ostracized me from my co-workers and even now, some effects from that time in professional purgatory still raise their heads.

Eric

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Deane Adams

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John, thanks for the reply, you made me smile. Never felt handicapped, and after some careful consideration - I reject being disabled too! I will not stand for it. Being the ornery non-compliant sort, I will not be disabled or handicapped!

Jane, I looked at a number of properties for sale in the area where the community is located about six months ago. Nothing there really stood out to me and the spoke person seemed a little too "something" for me to be comfortable with.

I think the nice thing to do will be an email thanking them for their time and decline an offer to visit.

Thank you all!

Peace

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John F Dean

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Hi Eric,

You raise some great points. Not only is the Unapparent Disability frustrating; but the road back can be pretty rough as well… and never ending. It gets to be a real challenge not to allow the disability to define who you are. The direct influencers are challenging enough. The indirect ones can be maddening.

To be is to do …Kant
To do is to be ..Nietzsche
Do be do be do…Sinatra
Scooby dooby do …St. Thomas

John F Dean

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Eric, your post on the labeling of your insomnia pushed some buttons for me. In one of the hospitals my wife was at many years ago, it mentions in her record that she has a suicide attempt …it even identifies the ER that treated her. The problem is my wife had no suicide attempt …AND the identified ER has no record of her ever being there.

Sure, we contacted the hospital. They say it is up to the Dr to remove it from her record. Of course, and not surprisingly, the DR has been barred from the hospital…which sets up a Catch 22. Frankly, it is not worth the legal costs to chase this issue down. But, it does present a potential barrier.

To be is to do …Kant
To do is to be ..Nietzsche
Do be do be do…Sinatra
Scooby dooby do …St. Thomas

John Weiland

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Pearl Sutton wrote:......I have wished SO MANY TIMES that I had a cable like a USB cable, that I could connect to me, and connect to another person, that would let them feel EXACTLY what I feel, NOW tell me I should be able to cope with what you want me to do. They lack data, and I can't give it them in a way they can't deny. I wish I could. I guarantee there are some days that I manage to go out and do stuff, that if someone else was suddenly hooked up to my pain, they would hit the ground screaming. And all I could say to them is "No, this is a day I am coping. It gets much worse. "
Sorry, this is a major issue in my life, it's hard to not rant.

John F Dean wrote:I suspect it hits home especially hard when there is anyone close to you that you discover just doesn’t get it. And, far too often, people don’t understand the chain reaction that can be set off..

Just grateful to see this thread. In my pre- vs. post-stroke experience over the past few years, it's been very frustating with respect to wife's often inability to remember what befell me, even as I appreciate the general recommendations from her and friends, family, and physicians to stay active and keep doing the farm chores. And as noted, it can be largely due to 'masking' of the symptoms, some external, but most internal. For example, it is exceedingly difficult to 'mentally multitask' any longer. And so it may arise that I discuss plans in the morning with wife on projects to be done, not only having insufficient energy to complete more just a few on the list, but also forgetting what some of the projects were that we discussed! I'm now fully retired as of a month ago. Because even though boss and co-workers told me they were noticing no deficits with my research tasks and delegations of projects to subordinates, I simply could no longer bear the fatigue and frustration of where I found myself with my current inner resources.....and was masking that fact apparently quite well to co-workers. Thanks for this thead!...

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John F Dean

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Hi John,

Here is something to consider. In the 1960 there was a major court decision. The ruling was doctors are experts in medicine. They are not experts in work.

Not to play with your brain too much, but to run with the explanation given in this decision, the logic the judge presented would say that doctors really have no idea what a farmer does in terms of day to day activity. This is not to say that you should ignore the advice you were given …just make a mental note. Or to provide an example, a client of my organization was happy when the doctor said he could return to his work as a farmer with no restrictions. He had major back surgery. We did make a point of providing him the information above. Of course, on week 1 a calf got into a water tank of some kind. The farmer jumped in … pulled it out ….and royally messed up his back. Of course, his doctor lectured him saying he had no idea that the farmer would be pulling calves out of water tanks.

Doctors know medicine …not work.

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To do is to be ..Nietzsche
Do be do be do…Sinatra
Scooby dooby do …St. Thomas

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John F Dean wrote:
Doctors know medicine …not work.

This made me smile.... A few years back, we were obtaining ~100 bales of grass hay from a neighboring farmer. This was before my stroke, but some other issue had me at less than 100% that day and my wife and I began transferring the bales from his wagon to ours. As we got more bales onto our wagon, we switched roles....with us on his wagon and he on ours since he could toss the bales easier up to the higher reaches of the pile, with them settling expertly into place. He had a reputation for hard work, but I noticed and bit of pausing and wincing once or twice as he worked. When done, he asked for his pay a bit apologetically saying he needed to move to the next job as he wasn't working as fast that day. Asking if he was okay, he said "Well....I had surgery on this shoulder last week and I thought it would be better by now.....!". This would be enough to put most people out.....but this is when he was 75! He's 80 or over now and *rumor* has it that he's fully retired no, although I have my doubts. ;-) But I can safely say, and am slowly accepting, I'm just not built like that....

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John F Dean wrote:The ruling was doctors are experts in medicine. They are not experts in work.

Years ago I called in for an emergency operation after a dodgy smear test, on a cancellation before I'd even received the result of the test. I had zero time to prepare, and they gave me very little guidance except that I should continue with my normal daily activities.

The next morning I thought I needed a little more guidance and phoned them up for clarification.

"Can I ride my bike?"

"No."

"My horse?"

"NO!"

"I guess there's not much point asking if I can haul metal sheets up the ladder to put the roof on the new hay barn then?"

"NO!!!"

I'm really not sure what these normal daily activities are that women are supposed to perform...

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Pearl Sutton

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Burra: I relate to that one!!
After two years of being told my back was fine, we did a different test and something showed up. The doctor lady who called me said "Oooh, looking at this, I bet you have been on the couch crying!" I said "Tried that, doesn't help the pain, doesn't get anything done. When you called I was carrying plywood into the house on my head, I'm building cabinets." She was horrified.

What do you want from me? You've been telling me for over two years I'm fine!
I have things to get done! The cabinet I built (got it done before the back surgery) was to move a bunch of my canning jars, cast iron skillets, and other heavy kitchen stuff down lower so it hurt less to access them. The doctors weren't giving me good answers, so I was just coping with the pain by changing things so I could.

John F Dean

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Hi John, back when I was 35, I had an 80 year old man work me into the ground.

To be is to do …Kant
To do is to be ..Nietzsche
Do be do be do…Sinatra
Scooby dooby do …St. Thomas

Nicole Alderman

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My husband complained about pain in his lower right rib for years. He asked for x-rays and anything that could help him figure out what was wrong. They always told him he was fine.

Then he started bleeding out of his butt.

Come to find out, it was his Crohn's and some nasty inflammation and junk in his colon. They finally started treating him, but it took bleeding from his butt for them to take him seriously.

It's worse with casual onlookers. When he has a nasty Crohn's flare-up, he tends to lose a ton of weight. He'll often be walking super slowly &/or with a cane. But, people will say, "Oh wow, it looks like you've been working out!" No, no, he just wasted away all his fat because all the nutrients are coming out of him in the form of diarrhea and it hurts to digest food and he has no appetite. It's not until he starts muscle wasting and truly looks ill, that people stop complimenting him on his weight loss.

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Pearl Sutton

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John F Dean wrote:Hi John, back when I was 35, I had an 80 year old man work me into the ground.

Some of that is just skill. When we moved to Missouri I worked two 18 year old weightlifter kids into the ground. I took to pushing them by reminding them I was the same age as one of them's grandmother, and that there was TWO of them to just me, come on guys! :D It was skill being more effective than their brute force.
They did learn some good skills from me, once they realized they were losing to an older lady :D I saw one later he said "Remember that trick you taught me about this? I taught it to the guys at the place I'm working, they think I am a genius!" "Remember what I told you? 95% of all magic is knowing ONE FACTOR that the others do not!"

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Worth mentioning is that in the case of a long term disability, the 5 stages of grief become a cycle. Also the stages are not always taken in order as the cycle repeats.

Denial…Anger…Bargaining ….Depression …Acceptance. I bring this up because, taking the posts here collectively, it is pretty clear they are presen, and, in the case of Unapparent disabilities, it can be pretty confusing to all.

To be is to do …Kant
To do is to be ..Nietzsche
Do be do be do…Sinatra
Scooby dooby do …St. Thomas

Pearl Sutton

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Denial…Anger…Bargaining … Depression …Acceptance.

The problem is there is never a resolution. There's never a point at which you can say "This is past, is over, let it go and move on." The minute you think that, you get slammed in the face with it again.

It's like PTSD when you are still in the situation. It's hard to move on and get through it when the bombs are still falling around you.

John F Dean

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Hi Pearl,

Exactly. Hence me referring to the cycle. I suppose I could have said never ending cycle, I considered it. For some lucky people the cycle slows and so ends. My wife is also a nurse with a masters in rehabilitation. With her dx of cancer, I thought the chemo had pushed her into bi polar. But nope, she is cycling through the stages. Initially neither one of us realized it.

Why did we miss it? Well Denial can be confused with normal. After all, it was a small tumor and was removed. Anger, of course, is part of bi polar. Depression is part of bi polar. Acceptance looks like normal. I skipped bargaining because that has manifested numerous ways. …just not always easy to pound into the square hole. Most recently she wants me to take on various projects. It has been difficult to figure out the pattern. Finally, the light bulb went on. The connection is She wants me to complete The perfect homestead. I suspect that this translates into a bargain

To be is to do …Kant
To do is to be ..Nietzsche
Do be do be do…Sinatra
Scooby dooby do …St. Thomas

Jay Angler

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John F Dean wrote: Most recently she wants me to take on various projects. It has been difficult to figure out the pattern. Finally, the light bulb went on. The connection is She wants me to complete The perfect homestead. I suspect that this translates into a bargain

Do you understand her motivations? Does she want The Perfect Homestead so that she will be OK if the cancer returns, or because she wants you to be OK without her if she pre-deceases you, or some other reason that you do or don't know, and is beyond my ken to guess?

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John F Dean

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Hi Jay,

I suspect it is all the reasons you identify and more. I suspect there is some abstract link going on between completing work and defining the span of her life. Hence the concept of bargaining.

To be is to do …Kant
To do is to be ..Nietzsche
Do be do be do…Sinatra
Scooby dooby do …St. Thomas

Jay Angler

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John F Dean wrote: I suspect it is all the reasons you identify and more. I suspect there is some abstract link going on between completing work and defining the span of her life. Hence the concept of bargaining.

Here in North America, we don't seem to deal with our transition out of life very well. We all have to die sometime. Yes, I'd prefer it happen 10+ years from now in my case, but I seem to be less freaked out by its inevitability than many people I know. It's not like I take stupid chances or anything. I definitely feel like an outlier in this area of life and death. It may be that I don't feel that forcing someone to suffer for the sake of extending their life is what Mother Nature intended. In the wild, sick animals don't last long. I am all for using the tools available to cure someone. I am *totally* in favor of giving "disabled" or "differently abled" people every tool in my tool box to live a productive life to the best they can manage. But I am firmly in the "quality is more important than quantity" camp (within reason and with every situation evaluated on its own merit.) Yes, definitely an outlier on this particular spectrum.

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