Darren Robertson

Plans can go so astray. Apples were what we planned on. Then a retiring Nurseryman gifted us a free collection of French and LSU fancy fig trees. Just finished starting 158 cuttings with 2 more to graft.

M111 , M26 , M7 all have burr knot tendency and will root by cutting.

M111 apples are 75 to 100 grains , sour and astringent.

Rootstocks with edible apples? P.1 , P.2 and P.14.

Mostly as acidic cookers though.

Courtney Munson wrote:Thank you both.

Darren Robertson wrote:Final caveat is I will grow certain seedlings for rootstock on budget priced apple trees. We plan on Bittenfelder for a medium size tree with really good, juicy and tasty frit.

Tell me more about Bittenfelder and/or other varieties like it.  I have been trying to understand why Antonovka was being used so commonly as rootstock.  Is it because it apparently comes true from seed?  (How does that even work?  Does it not matter what it's planted around?)  Is that the same for Bittenfelder?  

Bittenfelder is mostly known as a cider apple . But also makes a decent eater and cooker. It is very much like Ulm Police Apple and Jadernicka. The above description fits all three. Each has flavor different. All 3 are used for their strong growth and long lives. At some point I'd like to have all three growing. All have been used for seedling rootstock for many hundreds of years.

Antonova is more of a class of apples. Not a single variety. The version sold as a rootstock here makes a medium sour cooking apple if allowed to grow. It is very cold hardy and tough. Though it is not blight proof. More like just tolerant.

Borowinski is yet another Russian apple with use as rootstock.

There are an army of crabapple around.

Seeds grow as their genetic coding allows them to. Highly dependant on their Ploidy type, they can have many sets of code.  In a normal diploid; you get classic egg and pollen parent sets.

I do not have time for daddling in growing seedlings for maybe something decent. There are more choices of already proven apples then most folks have land to grow them on.

Do not get me wrong. Yah for the seed planters doing the hard work of creating new apples. However compared to modern breeding they are hopelessly out gunned.

Final caveat is I will grow certain seedlings for rootstock on budget priced apple trees. We plan on Bittenfelder for a medium size tree with really good, juicy and tasty frit.

Anthony Powell wrote:

Darren Robertson wrote:Go to the UK's NFC Apple tree identification website. Start a "full id" search. Check the " cultivation" option and then "Pitchers". Then check both lots and some pitchers box. Hit search and you will see all 50 something UK apples know to easily root by cuttings.

Hope that helps.

I'm on National Fruit Collection's website, no option for cultivation... am I on the right site?

Sorry. FruitID.com

https://www.fruitid.com/index.html#identification/1

Go to the UK's NFC Apple tree identification website. Start a "full id" search. Check the " cultivation" option and then "Pitchers". Then check both lots and some pitchers box. Hit search and you will see all 50 something UK apples know to easily root by cuttings.

Hope that helps.

Looks like a fungal attack.

Fireblight strikes are quite distinct. Usually a Shepard hook bend surrounded by blackened leaves.

Trim out immediately to prevent fireblight attacking the shoot. Do not burn the cutting. Place in a bag and send the piece out with the trash.

If shoot blight happens; you will get cracking bark do the branch and into the tree.

Check your trees often for strikes. No big deal trimming off struck blooms. The bloom season is short.

Derek Thille wrote:

This came up in my feed today.  The trees don't look that massive to me (compared to say hardwood trees), but Luke seems pretty excited about them.  I found it interesting that he did a bit of sleuthing via the local history museum and used some old maps to attempt to discern who first grew them.  The base of one was large enough he couldn't get his arms around, but a gnarly enough tree that it wouldn't be useful for timber.

There are some interesting large trees. Go to Bernwode Nursery website and they have a page on some of the old ancient apple trees  on a dedicated web page.

I have been dying to get a tree from Russia called Vityaz. Which is Russian for Knight.One of it's claim to fame is it grows stupidly wide. Bigger then a house wide sometimes.  Still tall with huge trunks. It truly is a Southern Live oak version of an apple tree.

It produces copious amount of your typical Eastern European sweet and sour winter apple. Often in big clusters. Around 180 to 250 grams in weight.

I would love to nurse root plant them as exhibition trees.

Alas the current sanctions rule it out for now.

Chris Clinton wrote:

Darren Robertson wrote:

Had the worst fireblight year in a long time down here perhaps a virulent new strain because we lost a lot of supposedly resistant types including most of my plants on Geneva G.214.

It is easier to name those that did not survive. Hackworth did not survive on any rootstock. Rabun Bald. Spice of N. Georgia, Cranberry of N. Georgia. All die on all 3 rootstock.

I had one short piece of Old Fashioned Limbertwig and I named it Lazurus. It got ran over by a truck, ate by goats and took brutal fire blight strike pruning. By winter time it looked great but not that tall.

In fact all of my other old Georgia trees took fireblight strikes but never died.

Liberty, Enterprise, Rouville, Magness pear, Kieffer and Ayers all got killed by Fireblight. All allegedly fireblight resistant.

oooof, that's rough. I don't even want to think of fireblight becoming even more challenging. That list of resistant varieties getting nailed is nuts. It's hard experiencing trees succumb after all the investment of work and care especially when the plan is for them to be long lived members of our landscape communities. I guess we just keep trying.

Talking to Mr.Fazio at Cornell/ Geneva's breeding program, they got a lot of reports of a possible new strain of Fireblight. He wanted to send some G.257 rootstock to see how it responds. Last year I had 6% of grafts on G.214    survive. 52% of M111 survived. AND 48% OF P.2 grafts lived.

Now not all died to fireblight. We suffered two goat break outs. And maybe 10-15% had question root development.

Listening to Mr.Fazio lack of roots on G.214 is critical. Next time I will not buy regrades on them. Also you must heel them in the ground upon receipt. Water them in good. Then pull them as you need grafts.

Chris Clinton wrote:Also in Georgia. I'd love to hear from Darren and others about which heritage apples have shown the best resistance to fireblight. That disease has been the most discouraging factor for me. I might be bringing it on myself by how much I graft over large trees and all the vigorous growth that comes with that. I'll throw out William's Pride as a winner.

Had the worst fireblight year in a long time down here perhaps a virulent new strain because we lost a lot of supposedly resistant types including most of my plants on Geneva G.214.

It is easier to name those that did not survive. Hackworth did not survive on any rootstock. Rabun Bald. Spice of N. Georgia, Cranberry of N. Georgia. All die on all 3 rootstock.

I had one short piece of Old Fashioned Limbertwig and I named it Lazurus. It got ran over by a truck, ate by goats and took brutal fire blight strike pruning. By winter time it looked great but not that tall.

In fact all of my other old Georgia trees took fireblight strikes but never died.

Liberty, Enterprise, Rouville, Magness pear, Kieffer and Ayers all got killed by Fireblight. All allegedly fireblight resistant.