Super large apple trees

Anyone know of any giant apple trees that one might be able to get seeds from?
I'm adding standard sized apples and apples planted by seed to my land, and I have it in my head that I'd love to find seeds from apple trees that might be able to compete in the forest after I'm gone.  I've read about an apple tree that had grown to 60' tall with a 100' spread, though that tree is long since gone.  This picture below shows a tree that was a bit smaller, but look at that trunk diameter...wow!  Alas, that one is long since gone as well.

I know Akiva Silver from Twisted Tree Farms has also looked into breeding some big ones, but not sure how far along his efforts are.  There's a tallish one near me in VA, about 40 ft or so, that has a lot of light competition from nearby oak trees, so has grown fairly tall.  The fruit is not very good, though, and it is very matted/un-pruned.

Thank you for that lead Josh.  Akiva has a nice tree picture on his sight.  I'll reach out to him to see if there's an opportunity through him.  I like that he's up here in the northeast with me...extra chances that trees that do well where he is will do well on my land.

Something you might try is to save up a bunch of apple seeds from whatever apples you eat, then grow those out for a year and select for hybrid vigor. Last year I had a seedling of a braeburn apple that was nearly 1 inch caliper and over 3 feet tall at the end of its first growing season, whereas most of the other apple seedlings were in the 1/2 inch range at the end of their first season.

Abe Coley wrote:Something you might try is to save up a bunch of apple seeds from whatever apples you eat, then grow those out for a year and select for hybrid vigor. Last year I had a seedling of a braeburn apple that was nearly 1 inch caliper and over 3 feet tall at the end of its first growing season, whereas most of the other apple seedlings were in the 1/2 inch range at the end of their first season.

^I think this is a good approach.

A few years into doing exactly what you're suggesting. I live in TX but I just gave my 3 biggest seedling trees (over 3 ft. tall in one year, more like 9-10 months really) to my kin who lives in South Georgia where the trees will be given a much better shot at growing to their full potential. I probably started over 250 apple seeds last Winter and by November a few of those seedlings showed real vigor and those are the ones that made the first cut. I'm about to probably start hundreds more from the seeds I've saved this year from my travels and the lot I'm gonna get from one of my favorite growers. I've been giving out the seedlings that survived and showed some good potential to anyone that wants them. I'm hoping in ten years out of the hundreds (or thousands, or millions) of apples I've planted by then there will be a number of them that are on their way to the sky. Old seedling apple trees are a treat to look at. I wish every yard and fence row had one.

You all inspired me to buy a few hundred Malus Pumila seeds from Sheffield; plan is to plant them naturally throughout the yard to see if any good genetics some up in a S.T.U.N. situation. I already put a bunch of Malus Sylvestri in potted buckets this fall, and will grow them this year in a protected situation with good soil.

Josh Garbo wrote:You all inspired me to buy a few hundred Malus Pumila seeds from Sheffield; plan is to plant them naturally throughout the yard to see if any good genetics some up in a S.T.U.N. situation. I already put a bunch of Malus Sylvestri in potted buckets this fall, and will grow them this year in a protected situation with good soil.

Keep me posted. We can compare our STUNned seedlings at the end of the year.

A lot of the old traditional cider apple varieties were grown as large standards, and sheep were grazed beneath them. Many old farms in the UK had a few cider trees for their own use.

Some of those varieties might have traits that you need. But then the fruit is probably not going to be great for eating, as they were typically smaller and very sharp in flavour.

Have you ever heard of The Maine Heritage Orchard? I bet they would have some info on where you could find large trees to collect seeds from.

https://www.lancasterfarming.com/farm_life/conservation/apple-whisperer-john-bunker-explores-maine-for-forgotten-heritage-apple-varieties/article_ecb79236-e457-5b72-b27b-8df212e1a369.html

Growing up we had 3 standard apple trees, to pick them you had to climb them, the trunks would have been about 2ft in diameter and the trees were a maximum of 60 years old. They were roughly 25ft tall. They are all still alive but since they are in southern England that's not much use to you, However.. I do know two of the types, one is a brambly apple, one is a russet apple probably Egremont Russet. The third one I cannot remember other than we only used it for cider as it wasn't a good tasting apple.

They would have been planted in the 1930's on whatever was a common rootstock at the time.

Thank you Skandi, those sound like really lovely trees.

Hi Jenny, that's a great idea.  Years ago I gave a talk on biochar near the orchard and one of the folks who was involved with that orchard took me on a tour of the just planted orchard to get my advice on an improvement plan using biochar there.  I haven't been back since, but I've been thinking that I should reach out to them.  I wonder if they have info on the size of all the trees they found and took scion wood from.

It might well be worthwhile checking out malus sieversii. There is an experimental plantation of these trees somewhere in the USA.
Back in Kazakhstan trees were found exceeding 30 meters (over 98 feet) in height and specimens well over 300 years old.
Also very often they produce really tasty fruit.

When you check english wikipedia it says 5 to 12 meters height for malus sieversii, but on the german wikipedia site for malus sieversii height is indicated 5 to 30 meters and minimum age 300 years.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiatischer_Wildapfel

Also i watched a 1 hour long documentary on malus sieversii where they clearly say apple trees exceeding 30 meters height were found in kazakhstan.
It's the kind of "giant"/"dinosaur" ancestor of our modern apples.
They can grow much bigger and older.
If you could go to or contact someone at the test plantation site (their trees are all fruiting already) you could find amazing seeds from vigourous, tall-growing specimens that even give good quality apples.

Wow, 30 m apple trees! If anyone on here ends up getting M.sieversii seed from the test plantation, or any other place, and if you have some extra, I'm interested!

Malus sieversii is thought certainly to be able to grow older than malus domestica and trees exceeding 30m height were found. But that doesnt mean they will all necessarily get very tall. Often it depends on the soil and location. Somewhere in England there are Oak trees over 50 meters tall while they usually dont grow taller than 30 meters. They just happen to grow in an ideal location with ideal soil.
Maybe the taller malus sieversii trees are found in one area of their repartition? I am no expert on malus sieversii. The test plantation is in geneva, new York i think even though i seem to remember something about Colorado. Maybe there is several. Going there would enable one to see whether there are differences in vigour and tree height.
I do think that they generally get taller than malus domestica.

How did all of your seedlings do, those who planted seeds? One of the junior members of my team is planning an apple garden for the slopes of our swamp. He would really like to find a tree that can grow to be large enough to climb in the next few years, but he is also interested in growing a tree with strong lateral limbs for a nice "ladder" effect, and hoping for apples on top of it, so we are following this post!

Kris Winter wrote:How did all of your seedlings do, those who planted seeds? One of the junior members of my team is planning an apple garden for the slopes of our swamp. He would really like to find a tree that can grow to be large enough to climb in the next few years, but he is also interested in growing a tree with strong lateral limbs for a nice "ladder" effect, and hoping for apples on top of it, so we are following this post!

The oldest seed-grown apple tree that I have is 6 years old, and another is five years old. They are both 12+ feet tall now but neither of them have strong enough branches for climbing yet.   One has even decided to grow like a columnar apple and has no lateral branches to speak of- really strange.

My oldest grafted apples are about four years old and have thicker branches but nothing strong enough for climbing yet.

On the other hand, I have two grafted pears that I bought as bare roots, one is orcas and the other is a variety of Asian pear. Those trees just as tall but have much sturdier branches. I don't let my kids climb them yet but they will be climbable before the apples are.

Philip Heinemeyer wrote:Malus sieversii is thought certainly to be able to grow older than malus domestica and trees exceeding 30m height were found. But that doesnt mean they will all necessarily get very tall. Often it depends on the soil and location. Somewhere in England there are Oak trees over 50 meters tall while they usually dont grow taller than 30 meters. They just happen to grow in an ideal location with ideal soil.
Maybe the taller malus sieversii trees are found in one area of their repartition? I am no expert on malus sieversii. The test plantation is in geneva, new York i think even though i seem to remember something about Colorado. Maybe there is several. Going there would enable one to see whether there are differences in vigour and tree height.
I do think that they generally get taller than malus domestica.

The test site is the New York State Agriculture Experiment Station
https://www.orangepippin.com/varieties/crab-apples/malus-sieversii

I see you can buy them at rareexoticseeds although they are out of stock when I looked just now.
https://www.rarexoticseeds.com/en/shakar-apple-seeds-malus-sieversii.html

I couldn’t find any sources in Canada, but have ordered other things from rareexoticseeds in the past. I think they are in Germany.

I have a large gravenstein apple probably about 100 years old, roughly 30’  tall with a 80” circumference and approximately 28” diameter. At chest height.   Tasty fruit great for fresh eating, ciders and baking.   Fruit does not store well.  
Shawn
Fernley Nevada