Lew Woodward

@ Craig -- all three!!

Thanks everyone for a hilarious thread

How about this?...

http://www.ergenics.com/

... "Ergenics is developing a metal hydride heat engine that converts solar hot water into electricity for an estimated cost of less than 5¢ per kilowatt hour, much less than what we are paying for electricity today." ...

I memory serves, they got bought up a few years ago. Not sure what's going on with them lately but I always found their potential interesting.

winsol3 wrote:
How about $1.80/watt?  for PV... check out  http://www.solar-electric.com/   I've had good luck with them over the last 10+years, very helpful and reputable.  They're located in Arizona, so I don't know about shipping costs to canada.

Sure, I can find lots of panels for less than $1.50/Watt.  But to qualify for Ontario's FIT of 80.2 cents per kWh, the panels  have to be made in Ontario (and for sale there).  They charge a little more there (manufacturers taking advantage of the HUGE incentive) but one of my suppliers has a warehouse in Ontario, so that's what I was basing the $2 to $3 on.  There are too many different panels and charge controllers and possible configurations to list them all, so if you give me an idea of what you're looking for, I can put something together for you.

Lew

winsol3 wrote:
I agree + disagree:  Borrowing from Europe's example, and given that we burn gazillion tons of biomass slash piles into open air, we need to get a small-medium scale biomass industry going and start tying our houses together - as in district/community energy sharing/distribution.

I guess your point, Lew, is that renewable energy in the USA is for 'dummies' and must be plug and play. I would put in a solar hot water system FIRST - way before PV... unless ya'll don't need a hot shower  . 

From where I sit the issue is education + consumer smarts.  Everyone need to educate themselves on some of the technical aspects of this - like a basic physics/electrical/mechanical trade school class. 

When it comes to the holy grail (LCA-life cycle assessment) of solar PV vs. biomass gasification (ala Euro Style) = it is lopsided in the favor of biomass for multi-unit housing.   Solar PV can't get close to 10-20KW for less than $10k.  Solar PV is good for single residential - but solar hot water would still be my first recommendation.

winsol3 ... I wasn't speaking about generalities or ideals, just to the practical (time and economic) issues that were being discussed.

If I'm not mistaken, this is a permaculture site with a lean towards independent living.  We are so far from individual self-sufficiency, so I thought I'd add some helpful advice that might help some get closer, given our realities.

The GEK is great .  For community scale I'd recommend http://www.eprida.com/home/index.php4 .  There's some serious promise in providing for larger solutions with their technology.  Why is it that the Chinese are investing in this and we are not [much]?

LCA of biomass gasification vs solar PV ... PULEASE!?!  When you factor in initial capital outlays, maintenance, fuel harvesting and transportation, etc., you need a fairly large project to justify the numbers.  And I am well aware that there is no magical crystal silicon tree .

Yes, this is about bigger picture stuff, but boiled down to smaller and doable solutions (at an individual level).  As an example, my brother-in-law is a master blacksmith/metal-worker and 'green' architect that chooses to use PV because it works best (search Lars Stanley, Austin TX).  He has the skills and knowledge to build GEKs or even steam-powered systems, but chooses PV for power.  If someone has the materials, knowledge, skill, time, and energy for it (pun intended), then go for it.  If you want to take the world on your shoulders, then I will build you a soap-box.  More power to you.  I was addressing practical issues.  Pardon me for assuming that most on this site would rather be in the garden than oiling up or scraping the creosote off of a clanking machine.

I'd be more than happy to discuss community sized solutions to energy needs at another time.  In the mean time, feel free to spend yours on consumer [citizen] education and skills.  Please keep me posted on how that goes.  I will remain a pragmatist.

BTW, I do SHW systems too.  Anything from evacuated-tube to 'bread-box' types (passive - for non freeze climates).  They are wonderful systems.  Most are not cheap.  I always recommend efficiency first.  "It is almost always easier/cheaper to save energy than it is to make it" Amory Lovins?  There are many ways to reduce resource consumption, but I'll leave that for another conversation.

Lew

I love the concept and efficiency of sterlings, and I hope to some day build a GEK gasifier, but I keep coming back to KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid).  You have to consider reliability, maintenance, complexity and the number of failure points, and cost effectiveness.  I've built all kinds of things in my lab (solar, wind, biogas, biodiesel, etc.), but what powers my house -- and a whole bunch of client's homes -- are regular PV panels.

Unless you live in a Northern rainforest or in a very reliable higher wind area, PV is the simplest, most reliable, and cheapest power source for your money.  AND you can get it (with charge controller) for about $2 to $3 per Watt (less than HALF the cost of a few years ago).  This doesn't include an inverter or batteries, but all of the other systems would require that too (unless your systems are entirely DC and only used when they're running).  You don't have to set up an elaborate and precise solar tracking system, constantly feed it oil/wood/biomass, and there is ZERO maintenance (unless you have a lot of large birds perching above the panels 

Save your time, money, and muscle for food production and simpler living.  I'd be more than happy to design and sell system to 'Permies' members for 10% over my wholesale cost, and include diagrams and simple DIY instructions.  I am independent and have very little overhead.  Or I can even send you to some decently priced retailers.  (not spamming -- I am on this forum for personal reasons -- and hope to stick around and learn 

In the last 17 years I've done cabins, boats, islands, suburban homes, businesses, and municipal buildings -- and I get great deals on equipment.
If you have knowledge of basic electric and can connect a battery to a fuse and then a light and/or pump, you can do this.  If not, I don't think I can help you from afar.

If you need heat and a backup power system, consider a biomass gasifier/ biogas/biodiesel generator.  Only if you have appropriate engineering knowledge should you even consider steam power.  For power you have to count on, hook up some PV panels that will last you more than 30 years, and leave the more fringe technologies to hobby/tinkering as I do.

Lew

misterinnovation wrote:
what about a biogas digester?

by the time the waste has digested it is more like processed compost than anything else

Try this out:  http://biorealis.com/digester/digestion.html