What to do with a slope?

Emma Fredsdotter wrote:The buildings are located on a plateau. There is enough flat land there to grow my vegetables and have a nice big herb garden, even when you take into account the unusable land (septic tank leach field), so I don't need to terrace the slope to grow annuals. Rather, I am thinking that I'd like to make it into a forest garden or forest-garden-inspired orchard.

So what would you do with this kind of land? Would you terrace it or just plant trees and shrubs as is (possibly using swales for water - but we're talking a famously rainy area so draught is unlikely)?

Emma Fredsdotter wrote:And here's probably the stupidest question of all time, when it comes to growing trees on a steep slope: how the heck do I prune them? I mean, for the northern side I could obviously stand on higher ground, but how exactly does one take care of trees one can't reach, without flat ground for a ladder? I don't even think terracing would help there, since the only plan I've ever seen of one with trees used the trees on the edge to fix the soil, leaving you with exactly the same problem. Someone tell me the answer isn't simply "stepover trees".

Craig Dobbelyu wrote:As you peruse the permies forums you'll see that a lot of earth works are not as complicated as they seem. I've had pretty good luck with a shovel, level and sweat. Search for info on " marking/finding contour lines" "building ponds/dams/swales" understanding the basics about these structures will go a long way in achieving your goals.

Jami McBride wrote:As far as leaving the trees alone goes, there is more to it than just that. You will want to get trees that have never been pruned, and nursery trees are from the beginning. Do a search and look in Fukuoka's methods so you'll know your options.

Alex Ames wrote:Your hillside is stable looking. With large quantities of rain you may not have to do much more
than plant your vegetable garden on the flat area and start putting edibles into the existing landscape
as you desire. If you install earthworks you run the risk of an erosion event. Lots of rain and new dirt
would not be a good combo. It is a very beautiful place just like it is.

Morgan Morrigan wrote:Big hill, big root cellar !

Morgan Morrigan wrote:south side ? Chardonnay !

Morgan Morrigan wrote:doesn't freeze ? mix in coffee trees.

Emma Fredsdotter wrote:And here's probably the stupidest question of all time, when it comes to growing trees on a steep slope: how the heck do I prune them? I mean, for the northern side I could obviously stand on higher ground, but how exactly does one take care of trees one can't reach, without flat ground for a ladder? I don't even think terracing would help there, since the only plan I've ever seen of one with trees used the trees on the edge to fix the soil, leaving you with exactly the same problem. Someone tell me the answer isn't simply "stepover trees".

Tim Crowhurst wrote:

Emma Fredsdotter wrote:Grow parsnips near the fruit trees, and allow some to go to seed each year. In addition to getting free seed for subsequent years, they will attract predatory insects which get rid of certain unwanted moths. They are also delicious as a replacement for potatoes in gratin dauphinoise - add chopped walnuts and a sliced apple, and use a well-flavoured blue cheese like roquefort or stilton for the topping.

Parsnips are awesome in just about any situation. They're even good for making wine!

Being native Scandinavians, trying to eat locally, we're big on root vegetables. Half of the year, everything else is imported. Slice the parsnips, toss them in the oven with some black salsify and carrot, glaze lightly with honey, cold pressed oil (rapeseed, olive), and a little bit of fresh rosemary. For a really sweet treat and a pop of colour, add red beets. That's my favourite, early in the autumn before the need for warming stews. Serve with your protein of choice and a pesto made from green peas, sunflower seeds, oil, garlic, parsley, salt and pepper.

james beam wrote:hi emma, could you please mention your soil condition/attributes of your slope...is it very large rocky, gravelly, or perhaps an slope of just pure dirt, sand, clay...its difficult to see from your pix.

Hi James! I would if I could. Alas, I am not actually moving into the property until September so I haven't been able to get very deep into the earth yet. The top layer is moist and aerated. What's below the surface, on the other hand, I've yet to discover. The area is known for its heavy, peaty soils, and its granite. The former/current owner is an older lady who restricts her gardening to containers in front of the house, so no one has touched the slope (or the flat land except to mow it) for 20 years.

james beam wrote:What is your access to the bottom & the slope, I'm asking because perhaps one day you find a huge tree fallen, and you need the wood...do you have truck access to the bottom?

Thanks for all of the soil tips, James! I appreciate it! We don't have access to the bottom with any kind of machinery, although the neighbouring farmer has a tractor path down to the river that he uses to cross it in the low-water season. It's about 10 yards off our land, and it's no guarantee of course, but if we ask nicely he might let drive down there. Something to really think about - thanks!

Robin Hones wrote:Emma - have you measured the slope (for example what ratio is it in the form of horizontal distance/vertical distance?) The steepness or otherwise will obviously affect what solutions can be suggested, and the side pitcure you posted could be misleading (it looks about 2:1?). If the slope is not constant then obviously worthwile to identify the major bands.

Hi Robin! No, I haven't been able to measure the slope yet. I haven't been able to walk down it (only walk around it down a tractor path) since the current/former owner has never cleared it. My estimation, which of course may be completely off since we're looking at very tall nettles and not the ground, is like yours... about 2:1 in the eastern part pictured, and about 3:1 in the western part.

Nicole Castle wrote:Do you need to plant over this space? Because if the slope is stable and not eroding, what's growing there natively has value just as-is as habitat and forage for insects, etc. You could also overseed some other natives like wildflowers and herbs to add more variety and see what takes hold.

My slope is not as bad as yours and even so it's a pain to maintain or work on.

Hi Nicole! "Need to" is hard to answer, since we've obviously survived several months without having any kind of garden at all. If I want to maintain some level of self-sufficiency fruit wise, and not just annuals and the odd asparagus, I'm going to have to plant the borders of the land. Without any part of the slope, that means pulling down a couple of existing trees. But, as I said, I don't "need" it for annuals. I have enough easily managed annuals space to feed the whole family and then some. For the slope, I wouldn't want to do anything more than try to establish a food forest of some kind. Lots of self-seeding erosion control plants, fruit shrubs, and trees.

Right now, I'm honestly not so sure it has much value as is. At least not the eastern, less sloping, part, which is a monoculture completely overrun by nettles. The western part is a bit more diverse. I'm going out there again today and will be asking the current/previous owner about their lawn, and walk around for a bit to try to figure out if the eastern slope is saturated with nitrogen from grass fertilisers, from the leach field, or somehow from the neighbouring farmer's wheat field.

Cheryl Guerriero wrote:I just bought a house in suburban Reno, NV. About 5,000 elevation. I had hoped to find a property with a large piece of flat land but property like that is expensive and hard to come by. I have about 4000 sf of workable land but half of that is on a slope behind a retaining wall. The house if 14 years old so I assume the wall is as well. Would appreciate any thoughts on what my next steps should be.

Thanks!