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What was I thinking?

 
gardener
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Location: N. California
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The last couple of years I have been been over planting my veggie garden. I ignore spacing and pile them in. Surprisingly I have had amazing results. At this point it's the way I garden.
This year may be a disaster, time will tell. Normally even though I throw spacing suggestions out the window, I try to do it in a way that makes sense. So there's still air flow, and sun. They are crowded, but happy neighbors.  I don't know what I was thinking when I planted my seedlings this year. A cherry tomato on the east side, tomatoes close to tomatoes, close to zucchini. Beans being taken over by nasturtiums.  It's barely June and my garden is already a jungle.  I guess I will see just how far I can break the rules.  Should be interesting.
As much as I'm worried I have made a huge mistake, so far everything is very healthy. Tomatoes already growing, we have eaten zucchini, squash and cucumber.  Even the peppers that looked crummy for a while are growing and have peppers.  Wish me luck, I'm probably going to need it.
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Cherry tomato 6/5/23
Cherry tomato 6/5/23
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Messy Garden 6/5/23
Messy Garden 6/5/23
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Zucchini and tomato 6/5/23
Zucchini and tomato 6/5/23
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[Thumbnail for IMG20230605200716.jpg]
 
gardener
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If it works, then this means that a healthy soil is the only rule we need to follow.
 
gardener
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Looking fabulous!
I'm also taking a "try everything" sort of approach lately, since everything has been super unpredictable. For this winter I put in 4 packs of peas and more daikon than I can even count. The way the weather has been lately, I figure I may as well go for broke and see what happens! Hope you get some great yields.
 
gardener
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Location: Ontario - Currently in Zone 4b
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I have found that I can get away with overplanting if I have good soil fertility AND provide supplementary water, frequently. The wild card is having enough sunlight to keep disease at bay.

If I do my normal thing of trying to only water once a week, little to no added fertility, I need the more traditional spacings.
 
gardener
Posts: 219
Location: East Beaches area of Manitoba, Zone 3
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Jen, I always love looking at your garden! Everything looks so healthy and seems to be flourishing. I guess you ride the thin line but it seems to be working. Your plants are huge! When does your seasons start?
 
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I am greener than your zucchini with envy
 
gardener
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Is that just ONE cherry tomato plant in the first picture?! It’s huge!

So beautiful green garden!
 
Jen Fulkerson
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Hay everyone thanks for all the great comments.
This is not in anyway a typical year for us.  I can grow year round. My summer veggie usually go in around March. This year I didn't plant in the garden until the end of April beginning of May.  We have had a lot more rain then normal, and a great deal cooler. We actually had a frost in March which is very unusual here. I started a lot of my seedlings in January. I had to harden them off 3 times before they could be planted.  So far the only downside is a lot more bug and slug problems.  I have also seen a lot more birds then normal, so hopefully they will take care of them soon.

Yes that is one cherry tomato it's about 5 1/2' and loaded with tomatoes. Now if they will ripen we'll be in business.

Thanks
 
pollinator
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Location: NW California, 1500-1800ft,
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It looks good to me, but I always do a horsetail tea spray in early summer on mildew prone plants or places with less than ideal airflow. The silica enhances cell wall and leaf cuticle strength to repel fungal pathogens. Harvest after the fronds unfurl horizontally and become more silica rich (that silica helps hold up the frond), then soak for a week in a bucket and use 4:1 to 20:1. It has reduced my mildew and mold pressure 90%+. You may be fine though with all that good stuff already in your soil.
 
Abraham Palma
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Catie George wrote:I have found that I can get away with overplanting if I have good soil fertility AND provide supplementary water, frequently. The wild card is having enough sunlight to keep disease at bay.

If I do my normal thing of trying to only water once a week, little to no added fertility, I need the more traditional spacings.



I was long struggling with these concepts. For once, plants benefit from being close together in the sense that they help each other to keep moisture inside and shading properly the soil. On the other hand, too many plants together requires more water and nutrients, which is simply not possible when you can't irrigate as in my case.

The solution seems to be to increase the water catchment area, and crowd your plants together in 1-2 feet lines. In my case, in need at least 2 feet pathways for water catchment and 2 feet for growing. Pathways may have some volunteers, but I cut them 1 feet tall, just for preventing erosion.
That's the theory, I don't have results to prove it yet.
 
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Location: Dallas, TX 75230, United States
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Maintaining good garden hygiene is essential in a crowded garden. Monitor for pests and diseases, promptly removing any affected plants or leaves to prevent the spread. Weed regularly to minimize competition for nutrients and reduce potential overcrowding.
 
Jen Fulkerson
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I guess I have been very lucky.   It's rare for me to have pest issues (my beans get aphids in August like clockwork. I just spray them off with water). No disease, or fungal problems.  I add compost and sprinkle a mix of organic fertilizer ( bone meal, blood meal, azomite, green sand, kelp meal, a veggie fertilizer). Before each planting. That's about it. I stick my finger in the soil and water when needed.  We are hot and dry, so I don't have a schedule, just when needed.  I'm not that great about removing dead stuff, mostly just pull  or cut off and toss in the garden.  
 
Ben Zumeta
pollinator
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We often get a “June Gloom” here on the coast that alternates with hot and dry weather, making a perfect mildew habitat on cucurbits and other fast growing plants. This seems to time perfectly with the unfurling of the horsetail fronds. If you don't need to intervene though, why worry about it? Grow on!
 
Jen Fulkerson
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Today I noticed a bunch of dead leaves on my cherry tomato.  The plant is huge, healthy, and is loaded with tomatoes.  So I'm not sure what is going on.  My research came up with blight, which scared me, but it doesn't look or sound like that.  Then there was not enough water. The soil didn't feel to dry to me, but it is in the outside corner, so maybe it didn't get it's fat share of water. Last year I over watered, so maybe I'm over overcompensating? It has jumped up about 20 degrees.  All the other tomatoes and veggies for that matter look good. I will give it a good watering. I also cut off all the dieing leave, and removed a all the low branches, and thinned some health branches out just to give it  better air flow.  We will see how it goes.
IMG20230617145139.jpg
Cherry tomato 6/17/23
Cherry tomato 6/17/23
 
Posts: 557
Location: Sierra Nevada foothills, 350 m, USDA 8b, sunset zone 7
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Jen,

I have received around 1000 mm of rain this winter and finally I have a garden. Cucurbits are growing the best and some of them germinated in some random spots - seeds from the previous year of complete failure (and May frost).
I did not build cold frames, because I was focusing on eradicating eucalyptus and wanted to use the cool weather for the laborious task of tree felling, chopping, transporting and burning.
I also have okra, planted a lot of melons and beans. I have realized that some plants I have to plant in the fall and harvest them in the early spring: spinach, chard, parsley, dill, fennel.
Now I have a messy (I felt resigned with failures and was putting seeds anywhere) canopy of zucchini, cucumbers and squashes and I'm experimenting with planting more seeds under them.

These is still one plant that does not want to produce - tomato. I water them daily, but all flowers dry up. The temperatures are rather low for this part of the year: 85-90F. Nights are around 55F I have winds and of course it's very dry. I have both determinate and indeterminate types. All of them (supposedly) heat loving. I have a new family of bees busy on the flowers in the morning.
Do you have any advice? I think that it's impossible to have tomatoes here, because of cool nights. For the same reason I can not have figs - they just seem not to grow at all.
 
Jen Fulkerson
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Cristobal, it's so frustrating to have trouble with something you really want to grow.  Your temperature actually sounds like good tomato weather. As long as the night temps don't go below 50, it shouldn't be to cold.  Tomatoes like heat, but not to much.  I live in N California where we can see 100 and more in the summer. I didn't realize this until this year ( I should have, it's a kind of a " well duh" moment for me) different varieties do better in different climates.  I would do a search for tomatoes that do best in your weather.  If you have a farmers market, or local nursery, I would go and talk to the people who are growing tomatoes.  Gardeners love to share information.  They may have a certain variety that does well, or a planting or growing tip. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on how you look at it. Growing, well anything, everything is an adventure .  Last year my tomatoes sat on the vine a didn't get red for a long time, then they didn't taste good.  Then August came and the tomatoes produced, ripened and tasted great. Why???   I will never know.  I almost always grow a cherry tomato.  They are the dependable work horse of tomatoes. For me they are always dependable.  It sounds like you have plenty of pollinators, but if you think this is a factor, you can pollinate them yourself.  Some use a little paint brush. I just generally tap on the flowers.  I don't do this often, but if there's a open flower near me I will give it a tap, why not?  I don't feel this has been very helpful.  I wish I had a tried and true way to grow amazing tomatoes every year, but I just don't.  I have hugel beets ( beds dug in the ground about 2 feet. Filled with layers of wood and soil) I add organic compost (bought because I suck at making compost) and throw in some organic fertilizers between my crops, like you I can grow year round. I just try to build the best soil I can. Do things like don't till, chop and drop when I can. Grow a lot of veggie, herbs and flowers crammed in, and most of the time it works.
This is already too long, but I have to ask do you stake and prune your zucchini and squash? I have been doing it for a couple of years now and love it. You put a stake in next to your zucchini. As it produces you remove all the leaves under the zucchini, and attach the stem to the stake. This was it grows like a tree. It's easier to find the zucchini/squash. Less disease and fungal problems, because you have more air flow. Doesn't take up as much space, and as it gets taller you can then plant under them.  This has been a game changer for me.
Good luck to you, I hope you crack the tomato code in your area.
 
Cristobal Cristo
Posts: 557
Location: Sierra Nevada foothills, 350 m, USDA 8b, sunset zone 7
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Thank you Jen!

So the temperature is right and I water them daily. They are planted in my native soil (sandy loam, 12% clay)  that I enriched with composted sheep manure (eucalyptus chips bedding) and I also layered cardboard under 4 inches of soil for some moisture retention. The last factor is wind. It blows almost entire afternoon from the west and once the sun sets behind the local mountain the cold air is flowing down from the east making my nights always cool (and freezing in winter). I have sunflowers planted but on the eastern side. I will try to fabricate some wind protector tomorrow.
Because of my microclimate within the microclimate of the foothills I doubt that a famer's market from the flatlanders would provide some useful information. In general, people have warmer nights and less wind on other properties around me.
I have planted: Floradel, Arkansas Traveler, Creole, Cal Ace, Calypso, Caribe, Atkinsons and Rio Grande..

Sunflowers are my recent discovery - they grow almost 2 inches per day and provide wonderful shade. I planted more to protect gooseberries and will be always planting them for shade and wind break and seeds for chicken (I don't care about eating sunflower myself) .

I have not tried zucchini pruning, but may give it a try. For now I'm just enjoying that everything is growing (except tomatoes).
 
Saana Jalimauchi
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Jen Fulkerson wrote:Last year my tomatoes sat on the vine a didn't get red for a long time, then they didn't taste good.  Then August came and the tomatoes produced, ripened and tasted great. Why???   I will never know.



Never say never, at least if you are in Permies! I think I just read about this and might have an answer for you!

Lycopene is the bright red carotenoid hydrocarbon (the red colour in tomatoes). If the temperature gets too high (84,2F-89,6F) it cannot form.

I guess the solution would be to grow other coloured tomatoes if the heat is too much for the red ones.
 
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