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Suffer by comparison

 
gardener
Posts: 1744
Location: N. California
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First I want to say I try not to compare myself to others.  Being human I have my moments, and I guess now is one. I try to do the best I can. No till, I work on building the best soil I can. I don't use pesticides, or chemical fertilizers. For the most part I have been pleased with my results.
Even though I got a late start because of unusually cool weather the garden has been doing well. Until now. The cherry tomato that was huge and so beautiful keeps having random branches and leaves dry up and die. Another tomato has blossom and rot. In all the years I have been gardening I have never had tomatoes get it.  Bell peppers, but not tomatoes.  My watermelon are kind of puny, and just growing slow.
My sister in-law is growing watermelon a couple of miles away, and hers are lush and green. She bought the plant from Home Depot, and feeds it with a chemical fertilizer.
Tonight my son was telling me about a customer who had pepper plants about the same size as mine, but his are loaded with peppers. Mine have a handful, which I "was" happy with because normally I don't get peppers until August.  The customer he said uses something like 0-10-10, why don't I do that so I can get more peppers.  
I try to be grateful for what I have. We've been eating tons of zucchini and squash. The tomatoes are loaded and starting to ripen, and most are doing well. A lot is going well. But I have to confess I'm a little green with envy.  I feel like a selfish child feeling this way, I'm working hard to try to grow the healthiest, most responsible, and substantial way, and people using crap fertilizers are doing better than mine. I know logically my fruit and veggies are probably more nutritious.  If pests, or disease strike my plants will probably weather the storm, and there's probably won't.( Not that I want any of us to suffer these problems) but at the moment I'm feeling a bit discouraged.  I will get over it.  My type A personality just wants to be the best.  Of course this is a recipe for disaster. Mother nature loves to keep us humble.  Thanks for listening. I'm not going to run out and buy chemicals ( I may make some compost tea, or worm casting tea). But I may pout a little.
 
gardener
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Hi, Jen, have you checked your soil? Is it still dark and friable? In a polyculture garden it can get depleted quickly because the active microbiom means more carbon and nitrogen are moving through the cycle. Since the ground is mostly covered with vegetation, there may not be enough residues to get back into the soil to replenish what's lost. Unlike a regular bed where one can till to loose the compaction and add organic materials directly, it can be challenging to revive the soil in a polyculture garden to keep on producing.

I usually harvest garlic and potatoes in June and do the followings to quickly prepare the small area without disturbing other plants nearby. I grow red beans wherever space is available as cover crop. I harvest the bean leaves and dry them in the sun. Within hours they will be crispy and crumbled into powders to preserve the nutrients.  I gently loose up the soil to mix in the dry leaf powder. Compare to tilling in the bulky plant, I am able to put in more organic materials without digging a big hole and leaving air pockets. I plant seeds right away and don't have problem with fertilizer burn.
 
steward
Posts: 16058
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My suggestion would be to add some compost as a top dressing and water with compost tea.
 
gardener
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Bless your heart. I've been exactly in your shoes, and continue to be.

The shifts in weather are causing issues. Last summer I got NO OKRA. Zero. Okra, the easiest thing to grow on earth???
But this winter (we have a frost warning this week) I have a hot pepper plant that is producing like gangbusters... in winter. I've never had daikon radishes work out right for me but this year I literally have 100. I almost never get tomatoes.
I try to just take the good and the bad. Nobody understands how I'm getting 3 harvests of sweet passionfruits in a year... even though my Surinam cherries haven't fruited in 3 years! I just try to breathe and roll with it. Keep on keeping on, you may find your slow grower cherry tomato may outlive other peoples'. the watermelon too. I try to remind myself that 1) not everyone is telling the truth 2) it ain't over til the end of the season (and sometimes not even then, ask my winter hot pepper....) and 3) easy come, easy go.
You're allowed to be frustrated, and I hear you. But keep on keeping on, i know you've talked about your efforts to improve soil etc. It will pay off.
 
master pollinator
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Location: Canadian Prairies - Zone 3b
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My snap peas grew 7 feet tall this year before they started blooming. Pretty cool, but too much nitrogen in my organic experimental compost!

Fertilizers can be configured to encourage blooms and fruits rather than tons of extra foliar growth. I tried commercial ones in the distant past, at my previous property, because my soil was naturally too rich in nitrogen -- and it took forever to get to the fruiting stage. Not good in a very short growing season!

Apparently there are 0-10-10 fertilizers that are approved for certified organic growers. I'll bet you could come up with an equivalent permie amendment.

I found this on the Web -- no idea if it's any good, but it gives you the idea:  https://www.groworganic.com/products/ultra-bloom-0-10-10-15-lb-bag
 
Posts: 33
Location: zone 7
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hi jen, iirc from some of your posts i figured you were living the epic gardening life. is there trouble in paradise?
i'll recall some of my own suffering now. for starters, my gardening adventures began with horrible very bad soil and i always always leaned on the absolute cheapest or free natural inputs. on top of that i was tight fisted with what little i had managed to scrounge together. the result has been that i've spent years incrementally increasing inputs thinking "maybe this year" something will actually grow. failure can't go on forever right?

last year was kinda a breakthrough for many things and with tomatoes i learned they love 'liquid gold' and ashes. what i witnessed seemed almost miraculous. i should've kept better notes, but a good low starting point might be 6-12oz LG and 1/8c of ashes mixed into 2 gallons of water. something like this would probably stack well with some of the compost and worm tea you mentioned.
p.s. i'll mention that what sent the tomatoes soaring had the opposite effect on my free orange daylilies. i'm still trying to sort out what recipes work for what plants around here, but butternut squash also doesn't seem to be a fan.
 
gardener
Posts: 2189
Location: Central Maine (Zone 5a)
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Hi Jen,
There are not very many gardeners around me (organic or otherwise), so I don't always have the other gardens to compare to. But I did however have an awful lot of people selling "farm fresh" eggs on the side of the road at ridiculously low prices, because they have too many eggs. Here I was producing organic, soy-free, pastured eggs for a price to make money. People would always ask why my eggs were so expensive. Frustrating when people do not understand the difference in product.

There is a natural and proper way to do things, but people want the easy way or the fast way. I think of sports and people who take steroids and stuff for performance. They do so much "better" and faster and bigger than people who train normally. This is cheating as far as I am concerned, and it also has negative consequences. I would say the same thing about chemical fertilizers. It's cheating and has serious consequences down the road.

I know you know this, but for those who are reading this post down the road. Organic or even beyond organic gardening is not about never adding anything to the garden, it is about how we add it, where we add it, when we add it, and most importantly what we add. We still can and should be adding nutrients and organic matter, but we generally do so through compost and manure and amendments, not man-made chemicals. We still should be adding things to reduce pests, but generally are using natural products or better yet trying to get other things to eat the pests.

Don't lose hope though. When even the NIH has studies showing that organic fertilizers (specifically chicken manure) produce better, more nutrient dense grass than chemical fertilizers (and therefore producing better grazing animals), I have a little hope.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7528016/
 
steward
Posts: 12418
Location: Pacific Wet Coast
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Jen Fulkerson wrote:First I want to say I try not to compare myself to others.  Being human I have my moments, and I guess now is one. ... My type A personality just wants to be the best.  Of course this is a recipe for disaster. Mother nature loves to keep us humble.  Thanks for listening. I'm not going to run out and buy chemicals ( I may make some compost tea, or worm casting tea). But I may pout a little.

I hear you - most of us have our pouty days, and usually our "why me" days also!

I hope you keep staying the course - I believe that plants that struggle a little have fruit with more micronutrients than plants that grow up on a junk-food diet. Since most North Americans are short on micronutrients and big on calories, I believe the struggle is worth it!

A big benefit of a dose of compost tea is that it might bump up the microbe population, and microbes do a lot of transporting nutrients to where they're needed. Hang in there!
 
Jen Fulkerson
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Thank you all for your support and advise.  
After pouting and posting the next step for me is to try to find a solution. I am a serial gardener after all.   The last couple of years our gopher problem has been the worst in all the years we have lived here, 28 years.  I think the Severe drought we have been going through has made anyone who waters, like for a garden attract the gophers. This is not based in fact, just what makes sense to me. Anyway I tried to solve this problem by using nursery pots. Drilling many holes in the bottom and sides, and planting them in the ground. I filled them up hugel style.  They grow things, but not great. I was hoping the holes would let the soil life in and the roots out, but protecting enough root to hopefully protect the plant from munching gophers.  Last year I thought I watered to much.  So far I have a couple of things doing very well, most are just ok.    I've stopped growing my melons in my garden for the most part. (I do have a cantaloupe and an Armenian cucumber) There just isn't enough room in the veggie garden, and for me the melons produce so much better on the ground instead of on a trellis.   The last time I grew melons in the ground I threw a watermelon plant in the ground my soil mixed with a little compost in a small hole. I watered and had a ton of large sweet watermelon.  I didn't fertilize, just watered, after a while that was tough because I forgot where it was planted. It was so big I couldn't tell.  Maybe that was the year all my stars aligned, I don't need amazing ( I do)  but I would like things to grow healthy and produce.
I will keep working on what is planted. But ( you knew it was coming) BUT I need to try something new.  We get filters for our air conditioners (yep we live in California and don't have central air. Just little unites in the bedrooms.) The filter is packaged with this plastic grid thing. I would love to get away from plastic, but better to use it then throw it away.  I zip tied 5 of them together in a box.  I was happy with that, but my son felt I should use chicken wire also, so we did.  We dug a hole. The ground was so hard even an auger didn't work.  This is an area I don't have covered with wood chips. What a huge difference they make.  We filled the hole we managed to dig with water and were able to dig the rest of the hole the next day. ( probably why the amaranth I tried to grow last year in this spot did so poorly.)  We put the cage in the ground and filled it hugel style.  I planted watermelon on one side and cantaloupe  on the other, with 1 pumpkin in the center.  I know it's probably to much. I will remove some if I need to.  Our growing season is long enough to handle planting this late, The major problem I can see is it's supposed to be 111 by Sunday.  It may be to darn hot for the seedlings. I may put something up to give them a little afternoon shade.  
I also plan to dig some holes, and just line them with chicken wire. Mix a little compost with my native soil and see what happens.  I've read chicken wire will last 2 to 4 years in the ground.  Hardwire cloth is a better option, but out of my budget.  Where there is a will there is a way.  I just have to keep trying,
As far as the tomatoes go I've decided to do almost nothing.  Not what most would do. But at this moment it feels like the right thing.  I have a moisture meter. I may try to use it.  I have read a lot of times blossom end rot effects the first few tomatoes and goes away.  My first thought was to use some liquid calcium.  Most of the research I've read and watched seems to point to a watering issue not an actual deficiency.  So it's a wait and see at this time.  The cherry tomato isn't the lush beautiful vine it was, but it's producing a ton of great tasting tomatoes. I cut the dead stuff out when I have time. It will recover, or it wont. What ever is wrong with it doesn't seem to be spreading, so there is no harm in waiting to see what happens.
Like Jonathan said there is trouble in  paradise. It's easy to focus on the bad.  Sometime, you just gotta, but when it comes to the garden it's my paradise, and I love it.
Thanks again everyone. Happy gardening
gopher-cage.jpg
gopher cage
gopher cage
 
gardener
Posts: 1025
Location: Málaga, Spain
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Are you envy of your neighbours?
If you want a humility cure, try gardening in 2000 sq m with only 8000 litres per year, and allowed to work for 2 hours twice a week.

My harvest is puny, but it is also a small miracle, so I am grateful.
Watching the life increase in the garden year after year is priceless, even if they are just new bugs.
 
Jay Angler
steward
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I don't have gophers - there is something like gophers on my island, but they only live up in the mountain-ish area, not near where I live.
I have heard that sometimes old chain-link fencing can be found cheap or free on recycle sites. It would be a huge amount of work, but have you considered digging a trench deep enough to exclude them, putting the chain link in it, and back filling? If you get periods with rain, I'd back fill with whatever rocks you've got.

My diggers are rats, who can get through chain-link and can climb, so my "perfect" garden spot is still in my dreams. However, I've got a pumpkin I planted and I'm pretty sure that the reason it isn't thriving is that it's being undercut by rat raceways in that bed. At this stage we're late enough in the season, it's probably not worth saving it... sigh... yes, I understand your frustration!  
 
Jen Fulkerson
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Mostly what neighbors we have probably think I'm crazy, with hugelkulture, a couple mountains of wood chips, and often watering by flashlight. I'm definitely the strange one, but I don't mind.

Thanks for the tip. I will have to be on the lookout for chain link.  My son has a bobcat, so  safe growing trenches would be awesome.  I need more garden space like I need a hole in my head, but that doesn't seem to stop me
Thanks
 
Jen Fulkerson
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My grow basket is doing well. The funny thing is it's become toad town.  
The hole was a little bigger than the basket. I started to fill the gap with soil, but I noticed it was pushing the sides of the basket in. I wanted as much space inside the basket as possible, so I didn't put any more soil.  It got dark and I decided to fill the gap with wood chips at another  time.  I got busy and a week or so went by before  I was able to fill the gap. When I would water I started to notice toads coming out of the gap.  We aren't talking two or three, but a lot.  I decided to leave it the way it is. I figure the plants will just air prune on the side. Everything is growing well, and it amuses me to watch all the toads of toad town.
IMG20230801195816.jpg
The gap known as Toad Town
The gap known as Toad Town
IMG20230801195757.jpg
Two little toads
Two little toads
IMG20230801195714.jpg
Baby toad
Baby toad
 
Jay Angler
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I can imagine the plants in your basket, won't be bothered by many insects!

Isn't there a law about "unintended consequences". I think often people use that law in the negative sense, but this sure shows that unintended consequences can be positive and delightful!
 
Posts: 556
Location: Sierra Nevada foothills, 350 m, USDA 8b, sunset zone 7
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Jen,

Regular chicken wire with 1" hexagonal opening does not protect against gophers. I already lost over 10 fruit trees to gophers using the regular chicken wire. I switched to 1/2" square opening and it works.
Wire basket lasts one season in my environment (slightly alkaline sandy loam) with twice a week irrigation (20 l per plant). If a tree dies and I dig it out in spring it will be half corroded.

Also having cats that are used only to real raw diet helps a lot. I have seen 3 gopher holes by the trees compared to around 100 last year. I do not protect vegetables, I think it would be too much work and past my threshold of how much effort I want to spend on babying things.

Saying all of that I have to say - be optimistic. I consider this part of the year to be equivalent to winter in Midwest - season of death. I find one dead tree per two weeks - mostly due to hot drying winds that blow non stop on my property. Watering, mulching, shading does not help.
 
Jen Fulkerson
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Everything is growing very well.  This gopher cage is working much better than the nursery pots.  I'm not sure what the issue with the pots is. There's a lot of holes in them.  I may dig one up and see if I can figure out the problem.  I may have to start converting them to the other kind of gopher cage.  
Anyway the watermelon, and pumpkin are growing much faster than the others. Will I get any fruit? Who knows. I may have started them to late. Even if I don't get anything it's still worth doing, to see how much better it works, and it's toad town.  Lots and lots of toads.
IMG20230820195452.jpg
8/20/23
8/20/23
 
Jen Fulkerson
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I don't know if I will get watermelon, but there is a baby pumpkin. It still has a bloom, so I don't know if it has been pollinated yet.  It's very windy today, so we will see. I would be happy with one.  
 
Jen Fulkerson
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It was super windy, but I still saw a giant bumblebee. Maybe it will get pollinated. Fingers crossed
IMG20230901190653.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG20230901190653.jpg]
 
Jay Angler
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When I'm feeling there is no fruit setting, usually there are lots of male flowers, so I pick one and invert it, and touch the pollen to the stigma.
I'll be checking my pumpkin plant over the next couple of days, as it is *finally* enlarging a female flower. It's likely too late to get a pumpkin, but one never knows in my climate what will happen.
 
May Lotito
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That was one cute little pumpkin! Can you tell if it's setting by now?
I noticed there's vigorous side vines growing at the same node and one nearby.  In case this pumpkin aborts, it could due to the side vine diverting engergy from the young fruit rather than no pollination. The pumpkin will set more fruits out of all these lateral vines. If the season is too short for all these vines to mature and you just want one pumpkin out of the main vine, I would remove the developing bud off the next female flower like this:
20230904_073600.jpg
Rubbing off side vines to ensure pumpkin fruit setting
Rubbing off side vines to ensure pumpkin fruit setting
 
Jen Fulkerson
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Thanks May.  I have only tried pumpkin a couple of times, with no great success.  I always forget to plant them when I should.  I was hoping for a couple for Halloween, but mostly want them for my chickens. They don't care when they are ready, or how big they are.  I will probably keep watering, and just leave it alone to do what it's going to do.  Luckily we get warm weather through October, and sometimes even into November, so maybe I will get at least one pumpkin. I do have 3 more plants actually planted before this one. One is a bigger vine, but producing only male flowers so far.  The other two I transplanted in pots, and they are sad little plants. I may chuck them into the compost pile, to open up the space for a fall veggie.
Thanks again for the great info.
 
Jen Fulkerson
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I feel this little excitement has taught me that the nursery pots don't work for some reason.  Maybe instead of holes I should have cut long thin lines down the sides of the pots.  Maybe the plants are becoming root bound, instead of popping out of the holes that I drilled.  I may cut some of the larger ones and put them back in the ground just to see if it makes a difference.  I just chose the pots because they are inexpensive, and will last a long time.  Hardware cloth would last a long time, but is very expensive, and to much for my budget.  Chicken wire is more reasonable cost wise, but brakes down in 2 to 4 years.  I have quite a few of those plastic grates. I have no clue how long they will last, but they seem like a similar plastic as the nursery pots, so maybe they will last a while.  They are free, so you can't beat the price.  I have been on the lookout for free chain link fencing, but so far everything I find is quite expensive.  Of course I know nun of them are ideal. Ideally I would never put any of this crap in my soil. The alternative is growing veggie for the gophers, or not at all. (In this area at this time). So the experiments continue.
Maybe I will figure it out and have a beautiful crop of watermelon next year.  I can hope anyway.  Thanks
 
Jen Fulkerson
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In end I didn't get any watermelon, and one pumpkin. Thought it's not an amazing success I don't think of it as a failure either. Nun of my other pumpkins produced anything. I knew it was probably to late for watermelon.  The funny thing is I planted a couple of watermelon seeds in one of my raised beds at the same time. It grew like crazy, and produced about 5 or 6 watermelon. They are way too late, and won't mature enough to eat. It's funny in a sad kind of way.   I left it in because I didn't need the space, and the bees have been enjoying it.  Not much blooming this time of year.   You can bet I will be planting watermelon there next spring.
I also plan to change my forest want-to-be garden. That's still in the planning stage. But I don't think the nursery pots work. I'm not sure why,  but they just don't.
 
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