Forum:

wheaton laboratories

electricity

paul wheaton

author and steward

Posts: 52415

Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)

∞

I like...

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

The land will be eventually divided into four pieces. Getting things rolling will start on the first two.

One of the earlier things to get done is to prep logs and lumber for construction.

I have an electric sawmill. And an electric chainsaw. I suspect that I'm going to need a generator until better solutions are figured out. I prefer to use a propane generator over a gas or diesel generator - so that any spills don't end up in the soil.

Any suggestions?

My books, movies, videos, podcasts, events ... the big collection of paul wheaton stuff!

R Scott

pollinator

Posts: 4024

Location: Kansas Zone 6a

284

posted 11 years ago

1
Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Go to Jack's site and look up the podcasts with stephen (steven?) Harris. and his sites solar1234.com and battery1234.com

He has a source for Honda (and other) generators with propane conversions.

I have a Honda eu2000 and it was one of the best investments I made for the farm. Small enough I can carry it anywhere and run tools where the wood is--chainsaws, skilsaws, drills, whatever.

Clean and QUIET.

It will just barely run a big drill like a milwaukee hole hawg--which is strong enough to use as a post hole digger (although quite dangerous to do so).

ETA: link to the site that sells the genny or conversion kit he mentioned: http://www.generatorsales.com/order/Honda-EU2000i-Tri-fuel.asp?page=EU2000i_Tri_Fuel

"You must be the change you want to see in the world." "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." --Mahatma Gandhi
"Preach the Gospel always, and if necessary, use words." --Francis of Assisi.
"Family farms work when the whole family works the farm." -- Adam Klaus

Ryan Barrett

gardener

Posts: 155

I like...

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

I'm curious if this could be scaled up to rocket stove/12 volt/ inverters.
I'd imagine there would have to be a battery in the mix somewhere.
It uses temperature differences to produce electricity.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Battery-Charger-Powered-by-Fire/#intro

One upgrade they mention in the article was adding water cooling. Which produces the byproduct of heated water.

OH!!!
http://tegpower.com/pro8.htm

idea via: https://permies.com/t/24456/energy/backpack-stove-battery-charger

Random Stuff I do/like: 2matoes

Ryan Barrett

gardener

Posts: 155

I like...

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Possible option to reuse old "failed" batteries. Da Pimp: http://screwdecaf.cx/dapimp.html

Some drawbacks to the Thermoelectric generator:

keeping a rocket stove cooking for extended periods of time.

Min Temp is around 200 F. Max temp is around 600 F.

Is there a way to keep a small contact surface (1 sq ft) at 200 F with mass for an extended period (3-4 hours) after a 1-hour burn?

Anyway... After all is said and done, Who knows if this could powering larger equipment.

For generators:
DuroMax XP4400EH - Dual Fuel (Propane/Gas) They seem to have good reviews across all of their equipment.

Random Stuff I do/like: 2matoes

R Scott

pollinator

Posts: 4024

Location: Kansas Zone 6a

284

posted 11 years ago

1
Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

That teg would be perfect for powering a 12v circulation pump for a wood fired water heater when you can't rely on thermosiphoning. Not for the top of a rocket barrel, but down by the transition.

That plus http://www.amazon.com/2-6-GPM-10-LPM-Threads/dp/B0075J6BKM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=U8Z6BPC2IP24&coliid=IQZOT9TC44LMA

plus a roll of PEX and you could transfer heat all over a house with a single stove. Or even a second building or greenhouse room.

joyce bowden

Posts: 8

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Hi Ryan and Paul, I ordered one of these rocket stoves pre-made yesterday. Will try making my own a little later,but busy with planting as it is just me here now... Joyce in NC

http://bit.ly/105bMK8

joyce bowden

Posts: 8

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

R Scott
May 6, 2013 4:33:26 PM EDT Subject: electricity
That teg would be perfect for powering a 12v circulation pump for a wood fired water heater when you can't rely on thermosiphoning. Not for the top of a rocket barrel, but down by the transition.

That plus http://www.amazon.com/2-6-GPM-10-LPM-Threads/dp/B0075J6BKM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=U8Z6BPC2IP24&coliid=IQZOT9TC44LMA

plus a roll of PEX and you could transfer heat all over a house with a single stove. Or even a second building or greenhouse room.

Oh wow, thanks for this info! Hey, do you think this 12V Solar Hot Water Pump run by a 10W solar panel might be able to bring water up from a 360 foot well?

paul wheaton

author and steward

Posts: 52415

Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)

∞

I like...

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

R Scott wrote:Go to Jack's site and look up the podcasts with stephen (steven?) Harris. and his sites solar1234.com and battery1234.com

I am not a podcast consumer, so .... late at night when my brains are too squishy to do other stuff, i listened to the podcasts with jack (and he mentions me in this podcast!). Eventually I realize i am no longer comprehending the words and go to bed.

I have now listened to two podcasts and I have now purchased the videos. I think I'm about 30% of the way through one video. Tonight I should be able to make a little more progress.

I like the podcasts and the videos a lot. I feel like I am learning heaps.

So here is the solar site and here is the battery site.

Maybe we should have Adrien ask Steven to be part of our book/dvd promo engine!

My books, movies, videos, podcasts, events ... the big collection of paul wheaton stuff!

R Scott

pollinator

Posts: 4024

Location: Kansas Zone 6a

284

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

joyce bowden wrote:
R Scott
May 6, 2013 4:33:26 PM EDT Subject: electricity
That teg would be perfect for powering a 12v circulation pump for a wood fired water heater when you can't rely on thermosiphoning. Not for the top of a rocket barrel, but down by the transition.

That plus http://www.amazon.com/2-6-GPM-10-LPM-Threads/dp/B0075J6BKM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=U8Z6BPC2IP24&coliid=IQZOT9TC44LMA

plus a roll of PEX and you could transfer heat all over a house with a single stove. Or even a second building or greenhouse room.

Oh wow, thanks for this info! Hey, do you think this 12V Solar Hot Water Pump run by a 10W solar panel might be able to bring water up from a 360 foot well?

No. That pump can only lift 6-10 feet. It is made to circulate water in a closed system like solar hot water heaters. It is cheap and efficient, but not powerful.

You need to add a zero to the price and the watts to pump from a deep well. Maybe 2 zeros to pump 360 feet, I have never had to look at that deep of pumps. That is a whole different class of product and way out of my league.

Paul,

Steven has been HUGELY popular on TSP. He is very much a "That's just marketing" guy that will call BS on lots of stuff many people here may be fond of, so there will be some push back (usually happens when we hear truth that ruins our fantasies). But if you want to build something that works now on a real budget, he is one of the best.

joyce bowden

Posts: 8

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

R Scott : thanks, for the quick info and for the Steven Harris info alert

Kelly Kitchens

Posts: 37

Location: Tulsa, OK (zone 7a)

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Paul,

How many watts does your sawmill setup draw at peak? Lots of us have gennies and will be happy to set it up to start.

I found this website to have the best selection of carb conversions, though there may be others:

http://www.uscarburetion.com/

Also, there is a very cool YouTube video of a guy who runs his wood chipper from a Wood Gasifier setup! Chips lots more wood than it consumes! Using a tri-fuel carb on a genset might allow energy generation on site to move from propane, to pyrolytic wood gas, to methane eventually if the poo management experiments run in that direction...

paul wheaton

author and steward

Posts: 52415

Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)

∞

I like...

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

If I remember, the mill uses 220v 15amps.

I have now watched all three of Steve's videos. Granted, it was late and i was a bit bleary eye'ed. But Steve re-emphasises stuff so it sticks in the brains of dopes like me better.

Now I kinda wonder if I should find a small trailer and put a roof on it. A trailer that can be pulled by the UTV we are talking about in another thread. And in the trailer is a bunch of batteries. Then the trailer is parked at BC during the night. Maybe the trailer has a solar panel on the roof, but the real charging probably happens at base camp. The trailer could also contain a propane generator and a propane tank. And maybe the trailer can also contain a few basic tools. So the idea is that this trailer can be parked near where electricity is needed. And it has enough battery power so supply all of the electric needs for, say, half a day.

Sure, you could just run the propane generator all day, but since the mill is on and off and probably not using ALL the power that can be used, then it sorta seems wasteful.

Bringing a battery pack out sounds more efficient.

But I have not listened to all of the podcasts yet, so I might be wrong.

My books, movies, videos, podcasts, events ... the big collection of paul wheaton stuff!

R Scott

pollinator

Posts: 4024

Location: Kansas Zone 6a

284

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

220v 15 amps is a LOT. Way more than that little Honda genny I referenced could do.

To do a battery setup for that, you are looking at a big investment. Like so big that you are making an all-power-labs woodgas genny look cheap (20-25K)

I bet you could pull a VIP card and get Jack to have an expert counsel answer from Stephen on how to do that cheapest. It would be an answer a lot of guys may want because you are in the realm of shop tools and deep well pumps. You will need to know how long you want to run the mill per day and how long you have to charge the batteries.

Keep in mind you lose over 30% of your power in the charge cycle so you really have to have a green power source to make it worthwhile.

paul wheaton

author and steward

Posts: 52415

Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)

∞

I like...

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

I think I need to listen to ALL of the podcasts with Steven (maybe twice) before suggesting such a thing to jack.

My books, movies, videos, podcasts, events ... the big collection of paul wheaton stuff!

paul wheaton

author and steward

Posts: 52415

Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)

∞

I like...

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

I'm thinking of getting this generator:

link

My books, movies, videos, podcasts, events ... the big collection of paul wheaton stuff!

Kelly Kitchens

Posts: 37

Location: Tulsa, OK (zone 7a)

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

If at all possible, have the dealer start one up so you can hear it run. Lots of gennies in "economical" price ranges are incredibly loud. The reason Yamahas and Hondas are so pricey is they're engineered to much tighter tolerances. The muffler only does so much. The rest of the noise cancellation is due to eliminating piston slap, valve chatter, etc.

A good option for loud-but-economical generators is putting them behind a berm. It's pretty amazing how quiet the ones in the service were that were baffled that way.

John Redman

Posts: 196

Location: Perkinston Mississippi zone 9a

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Whats the model # of the saw mill? or size and manufacture? I'll see if a retrofit might be an option. Then a little generator could be used for the chain saw or other small power tools.

One issue with the sportsman, warranty issues could be difficult going through amazon's supplier. I think any issues would be much easier to deal with through electric generators direct. This generator is a little smaller then the sportsman, but might be perfect for the mill. http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Generac-6001-Portable-Generator/p10205.html

paul wheaton

author and steward

Posts: 52415

Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)

∞

I like...

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

plate on the motor

sawmill.jpg

My books, movies, videos, podcasts, events ... the big collection of paul wheaton stuff!

John Redman

Posts: 196

Location: Perkinston Mississippi zone 9a

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Anything over 5.2 kw should handle start up of the mill. If it were me, before I forked over 800 bucks, I would rent or borrow a generator the same size as the one I plan to purchase. Just to be sure it would start the equipment easily.

paul wheaton

author and steward

Posts: 52415

Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)

∞

I like...

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

I called Caleb Larson and he is gonna put together a power cart. This is something that we could drag behind the golf cart. It will house a battery pack, inverters, the propane generator and will have a solar panel on the roof. The idea is that for running the sawmill, the primary idea is that the cart would start off plugged in at basecamp and then brought up to the land and be able to run the sawmill for a full day. By "full day" that means that the saw mill is on and off through the day and will probably be on for just 3 hours total for an eight hour work day.

I'm thinking that we'll get lots of pictures and even video when it is ready.

Here is a pic of my friend Andrew (podcast 100) running my sawmill:

My books, movies, videos, podcasts, events ... the big collection of paul wheaton stuff!

R Scott

pollinator

Posts: 4024

Location: Kansas Zone 6a

284

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

That is a slick sawmill. I haven't seen one like that before. Most are way more complicated.

cen rees

Posts: 24

Location: BG

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Not as quick but hows about the good old fashioned way - some wonderful hand tools - properly chosen for the work ofcourse. Nothing like sawing down your own trees and dressing them.
A workshop/course comes to mind - and it also does the tree justice I feel, if live standing.
Easily said than done ofcourse.
When the fuel runs dry that bread knife aint gonna cut it!!!
Just a thought - nothing like a chainy though.
All the best Paul
Cen

cen rees

Posts: 24

Location: BG

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Blimey - I dont think home depot stock these!!!

logging_pacific_nw_1.jpg

logging_pacific_nw_2.jpg

logging_pacific_nw_5.jpg

R Scott

pollinator

Posts: 4024

Location: Kansas Zone 6a

284

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

Notice in that first picture--those are two saws welded together in the middle. They didn't make them that big back then, either.

cen rees

Posts: 24

Location: BG

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

and if you count the rings on the tree its actually only 25 years old - mutherf.....s

John Redman

Posts: 196

Location: Perkinston Mississippi zone 9a

posted 11 years ago

Number of slices to send:

Optional 'thank-you' note:

Send

The charge controller on the solar cart has a load diversion built in (I think). When the batteries are full, this feature allows the solar panels to be utilized instead of just sitting there casting shade.

a little bird told me about this little ad:

rocket mass heater risers: materials and design eBook

https://permies.com/w/risers-ebook