Kosher King meat chicken

I want to raise some meat chickens soon. I'd also like to keep a few to hatch out in the future. I am interested in the heritage breeds. I will tractor the broilers and keep some breeders back in a deep bedding coop/run that is about 12'x24' to hatch out my own for next year.

I currently have white leghorn hens and 2 Rhode island red roosters I am breeding together for future layers. I do not think they will ever be big enough for dual purpose from the looks of them but I'll have to see how my selection process goes.

I was thinking about getting some Kosher Kings. Does anyone have experience with this breed? Or other suggestions?

Hi Josh,
I am not familiar with the Kosher King, but there are a handful of dual purpose heritage breeds that get pretty decently big. The New Hampshire Red. The Black Australorp. The Buff Orpington. And I almost forgot the Jersey Giant.

***Edit - Came across this article that talks about 12 heritage breeds that could be for meat. Gives stats and info about them. https://homesteadersofamerica.com/heritage-meat-chicken-breeds/

Matt McSpadden wrote:Hi Josh,
I am not familiar with the Kosher King, but there are a handful of dual purpose heritage breeds that get pretty decently big. The New Hampshire Red. The Black Australorp. The Buff Orpington. And I almost forgot the Jersey Giant.

***Edit - Came across this article that talks about 12 heritage breeds that could be for meat. Gives stats and info about them. https://homesteadersofamerica.com/heritage-meat-chicken-breeds/

Thank you, Matt. I will check the article out. I use "The small scale poultry flock" by Ussery as a reference. Also, after reading the "Landrace Gardening" by Lofthouse, I want to let some chicks hatch and I hope to replace our hens as needed. I also would like to tractor what hatches and process them depending on their size, laying ability, etc. It is all for personal use.

I do not have experience with Kosher kings, I hadn't heard of the breed before now.

Doing a little lookup, it appears to be a hybrid between a Barred Rock and a Sussex. It may not breed true if you are planning on trying to have a self sustaining breed.

Timothy Norton wrote:I do not have experience with Kosher kings, I hadn't heard of the breed before now.

Doing a little lookup, it appears to be a hybrid between a Barred Rock and a Sussex. It may not breed true if you are planning on trying to have a self sustaining breed.

Timothy, I saw that this may be the case when I was looking into it as well. From what I understand, I may need to bring in one of my Rhode island red roosters to the KK hens. I guess you just want the hybrid to continue verses going back to one of the hybrid parents and keeping that going.

I don't know though, so much information to sort through. Thanks for checking into it with me.

My basic understanding (which could have gaps) is that the modern Meat chicken is referred to as "the Cornish Cross" because the breeders maintain a "Cornish" flock for one side of the cross, and a different breed for the other side. The idea is to give "cross breed vigor" to the chicks, which a single gene pool doesn't give.

Problems: The birds for both sides of the cross have to be raised very carefully with restricted food or they will all be too fat to be effective at having sex or laying eggs.
You now have 2 gene pools to protect and ensure that within each, you don't get inbreeding symptoms.
You need triple or more infrastructure so that only the birds you wish to mingle, can do so.

Thus, for personal use, I would want to compromise. One fairly easy way to do that would be to choose a good, heavy weight breed, for your "moms", and then just buy one or two heavy weight roosters of another breed every 3-5 years to provide the "cross" for the layers who are your current meat moms.

You would still have to occasionally have your meat moms breed true to replace themselves, so that would require a same-breed rooster, and you would again want to occasionally source a rooster from outside your flock to keep things working well.

This sort of "trading roosters" would have been done a lot when most people lived on or near small farms. It was a two way street!

With any situation like this, watching for both positive and negative characteristics is important. There was all sorts of bad press about meat chickens spontaneously breaking their legs in the past. Modern meat chicken leg bones are easily twice the size of any of our layer leg bones.

I will also add my own pet rant here: even small operations for *many* types are birds are incubating all the eggs (so the moms will keep laying instead of setting and brooding) to the point that many birds are incapable of setting and raising a clutch. We've been having our Muscovy moms raise both Khaki Campbell ducklings and Geese in an effort to reverse that trend. We're hoping that with some generations of offspring who were at least raised by birds, they'll start to re-awaken those skills. Yes, it will reduce the number of eggs they lay, but incubators are expensive and don't seem to last very long if you're buying the home-scale ones, and you can loose a lot of eggs if there's a power outage. We aren't purists by any means - we're just trying develop options!

Cornish Cross are specifically bred for factory-style farming. They grow so fast their legs give out, and they can't walk, so they sit in front of their food in their own excrement, and left to their own devices, will die of heart attack or disease, in a month or two, after reaching maturity. We tried raising them ethically, and while they survived much longer - maybe 4months? - allowing/ encouraging them to forage, free-range, not allowing them to simply eat themselves to death, before slaughtering, the meat, in those extra couple months, became tough and... rangey. The reason we harvested them, then? They were, despite our best efforts, all becoming crippled. Their legs, even with the exercise, and slowed growth, didn't develop enough to keep them upright, but their breasts grew disproportionately, so they became horribly top-heavy. It was heart breaking to see.  I can't ever, in good conscience, recommend them.

Instead, we keep Orpingtons (or favorite), Austrolorps(2nd favorite), Barred Rock(haven't been great mamas, for us), and hope to someday be able to afford another heritage breed - Red/Freedom Rangers. They're slower developing, but supposed to be hardy, great foragers, and excellent meat, with decent egg production. But, they're pricier, around here.

Jay Angler wrote:My basic understanding (which could have gaps) is that the modern Meat chicken is referred to as "the Cornish Cross" because the breeders maintain a "Cornish" flock for one side of the cross, and a different breed for the other side. The idea is to give "cross breed vigor" to the chicks, which a single gene pool doesn't give.

Problems: The birds for both sides of the cross have to be raised very carefully with restricted food or they will all be too fat to be effective at having sex or laying eggs.
You now have 2 gene pools to protect and ensure that within each, you don't get inbreeding symptoms.
You need triple or more infrastructure so that only the birds you wish to mingle, can do so.

Thus, for personal use, I would want to compromise. One fairly easy way to do that would be to choose a good, heavy weight breed, for your "moms", and then just buy one or two heavy weight roosters of another breed every 3-5 years to provide the "cross" for the layers who are your current meat moms.

You would still have to occasionally have your meat moms breed true to replace themselves, so that would require a same-breed rooster, and you would again want to occasionally source a rooster from outside your flock to keep things working well.

This sort of "trading roosters" would have been done a lot when most people lived on or near small farms. It was a two way street!

With any situation like this, watching for both positive and negative characteristics is important. There was all sorts of bad press about meat chickens spontaneously breaking their legs in the past. Modern meat chicken leg bones are easily twice the size of any of our layer leg bones.

I will also add my own pet rant here: even small operations for *many* types are birds are incubating all the eggs (so the moms will keep laying instead of setting and brooding) to the point that many birds are incapable of setting and raising a clutch. We've been having our Muscovy moms raise both Khaki Campbell ducklings and Geese in an effort to reverse that trend. We're hoping that with some generations of offspring who were at least raised by birds, they'll start to re-awaken those skills. Yes, it will reduce the number of eggs they lay, but incubators are expensive and don't seem to last very long if you're buying the home-scale ones, and you can loose a lot of eggs if there's a power outage. We aren't purists by any means - we're just trying develop options!

Thank you for the info. The more I look into it, the more I think I can work with what I have. Maybe I'll get some chicks for broilers this year and save a few off that seem to do well.

I think over time I'd just like to have a mixed flock and be strategic with culling so that we can have decent egg layers and decent meat birds. I can bring in the occasional unrelated rooster or order some chicks and keep any promising stock.

I can grow some out for meat in the tractors, keep the decent layers. I think I would be okay to just work year round and have a few here and there. 2 of the white leghorns I have are broody and so I can experiment. I am not necessarily in a hurry but I would like to start experimenting to gain some experience.

Carla Burke wrote:Cornish Cross are specifically bred for factory-style farming. They grow so fast their legs give out, and they can't walk, so they sit in front of their food in their own excrement, and left to their own devices, will die of heart attack or disease, in a month or two, after reaching maturity. We tried raising them ethically, and while they survived much longer - maybe 4months? - allowing/ encouraging them to forage, free-range, not allowing them to simply eat themselves to death, before slaughtering, the meat, in those extra couple months, became tough and... rangey. The reason we harvested them, then? They were, despite our best efforts, all becoming crippled. Their legs, even with the exercise, and slowed growth, didn't develop enough to keep them upright, but their breasts grew disproportionately, so they became horribly top-heavy. It was heart breaking to see.  I can't ever, in good conscience, recommend them.

Instead, we keep Orpingtons (or favorite), Austrolorps(2nd favorite), Barred Rock(haven't been great mamas, for us), and hope to someday be able to afford another heritage breed - Red/Freedom Rangers. They're slower developing, but supposed to be hardy, great foragers, and excellent meat, with decent egg production. But, they're pricier, around here.

I am inclined to avoid the cornish cross for the reasons you mention. I have read many similar accounts here and other sites as well. My conscience would do much better with a bird that would not have all those issues so if we want to keep a few to breed, we can. There is a lot of conscience wrestling that goes on with doing these things, for me at least.

The ones you listed that you like and have experience with, do they seem to be heat tolerant? I would guess I am 2 zones above you from what I can tell.

I want to start by saying I do not think the cornish cross is a good choice. Having said that, I do want to point out that there are several strains of the cornish cross. Some grow a bit faster and some grow a bit slower. I have heard from people who do raise them, that the slower growing variants are more likely to handle moving around and not have the heart and leg issues that some other variants have.

Josh Hoffman wrote:The ones you listed that you like and have experience with, do they seem to be heat tolerant? I would guess I am 2 zones above you from what I can tell.

We've never had trouble with any of them, weather-wise. They've all done very well, here, and our temps range from the coldest being about -20°F on those (thankfully) fewer severe winter nights to about 114°F, with the hottest summer 'feels like' temps. The actual heat here often hangs out in the mid to upper 90s, occasionally going over 100°F for several days at a time. But, even with that added misery of the humidity, they've all been fine, simply seeking out shade.

Carla Burke wrote:

Josh Hoffman wrote:The ones you listed that you like and have experience with, do they seem to be heat tolerant? I would guess I am 2 zones above you from what I can tell.

We've never had trouble with any of them, weather-wise. They've all done very well, here, and our temps range from the coldest being about -20°F on those (thankfully) fewer severe winter nights to about 114°F, with the hottest summer 'feels like' temps. The actual heat here often hangs out in the mid to upper 90s, occasionally going over 100°F for several days at a time. But, even with that added misery of the humidity, they've all been fine, simply seeking out shade.

Wow, those temps are really something. Thank you, Carla. I really appreciate the information you shared with me. You may as well come on down to MS and have a mild winter if you are having those hot summer temps. Unless you like the cold weather .....

Josh Hoffman wrote:Wow, those temps are really something. Thank you, Carla. I really appreciate the information you shared with me. You may as well come on down to MS and have a mild winter if you are having those hot summer temps. Unless you like the cold weather .....

LOL! I've often said we didn't move far enough south, but I was born in MO, and the state has a special place in my heart, so I don't see me voluntarily leaving. That said, there IS the possibility that I could eventually give up this big (29+acres), rocky, clayey, hunk of ridges & ravines for something a bit smaller (3 - 5acres), smoother, and warmer, a bit closer to the state's southern border and a major airport (the closest, right now, is still about 2hrs away, keeping travel to family quite the undertaking). I do like having all 4 seasons, but I could easily be happy with less of this cold nonesense, too.

I haven't raised chickens for meat, that is, on purpose. But I did hatch eggs under broody hens, so sexing them ahead of time was pretty much out of the question. I have found that if you set a broody hen on 12 eggs, she will hatch out 9 cockerels and 3 pullets. I think that is b/c the cockerels grow into roosters and they protect the hens and loose their lives in the process. So, nature gives more males than females. The ambient temperature may have something to do with the m/f ratio too. I think that alligators are the same, sex is determined by the temperature of the egg mound where the eggs are incubated. Chickens are considered related to reptiles, yes?

What to do with all those hormone-rich cockerels? Well, they were the meat birds! At one time, I found a local breeder who had Dominique eggs for hatching. They were wonderful birds. Not the best egg layers but very calm birds and they grew pretty large. One of the cockerels (at about 8 weeks) weighed in at 5# after slaughter. When the hens had matured past egg production, they were slaughtered for stewing birds. Some hens were 4-5 #. Compared to Red Sex links, that is a great weight. They clean up very nicely, skin is white and their breast, legs and thighs are larger then most birds.

My friend was impressed with the Dominiques that I hatched and their progeny. He ordered Dominiques as meat birds from a hatchery. These birds were puny, not very hardy and none weighed more than 3-4 #. If you can find a local Dominique breeder and can get some hatching eggs to set under a broody hen, these birds would be a great choice for meat birds. They may need to go 8 weeks for best result.

Kosher Kings are a great bird of choice. They do need more time to mature before slaughtering and can be pricey. But they are fantastic at foraging and if you have the acreage, they will be happy in a portable house with good fencing to keep predators away. I have heard they can weigh up to 6-7 #.

So, instead of six weeks for (poor, sad) Cornish crosses, Kosher Kings may need an additional 4 weeks to get to good weight.

I never would choose Buff Orpringtons for meat birds...they are so sweet and easy to manage. Great egg layers and great with kids, even the rooster! Black Sex Links were a good idea, any that I had slaughtered weighed in at 4-5 #. They were older layer hens. But if you can order only male birds, they will weigh in at at least 5 # at 7-8 weeks. A few weeks more and they will pay their grain bill.

Then there are Dorkings. These birds are very close to wild in nature. But they grow into very nice meat birds. I think they are more available out in the mid-west rather than on the east coast. Again, finding a local breeder rather than buying in from a hatchery will give you a better product in the end.

I was Certified Organic for my poultry, this made it more costly to produce meat and eggs. But worth it since I seldom had any sickness in my birds. I feel if you were to look into what is in conventional poultry feed, the ingredients may shock you. It is permissible to use soiled bedding as a filler in conventional poultry feeds. And folks wonder how the bird flu is spread? A no-brainer. Feeding animals waste products from other animals should be outlawed. But it is one of the ingredients. Be aware of what you feed your animals if you intend to consume their products.

I don't know if this information helps. I hope it does!

cynda williams wrote: But I did hatch eggs under broody hens, so sexing them ahead of time was pretty much out of the question. I have found that if you set a broody hen on 12 eggs, she will hatch out 9 cockerels and 3 pullets.  

My chicken eggs are not all a consistent shape. Some are rounder at the ends and a bit chubbier in the middle, and some are pointier at the ends a subtly narrower in the middle. Soooo... I've actually read a research paper that says that if you look at all your eggs, remove all the pointiest ones, segregate the roundest ones from what's left, you will increase the number of hens hatched.  

So I had 2 broody hens this year, but I pulled a fast one on the first. We ended up with 16 chicks of which 7 were Cockerels.

The second broody hatched 8 chicks of which 3 were Cockerels.

I haven't kept good records with our Khaki Campbell ducks, but the year I paid no attention to egg shape, we had the kind of ratio you experienced. Last year when I did pay attention, we did much better.

I'm not looking for perfection - Cockerels and Drakes taste yummy even if the breeds we have result in them being on the small size. I just don't have the infrastructure for trying to keep cockerels from light weight breeds long enough to get to a decent weight as with our set up, we get too much fighting.

However, the issue of temperature could also influence things. Overheating due to heat waves seems to be a really bad thing.