Question About Straw

Hello, I use straw in my run to keep the chickens out of the mud in the winter. I also use it in the coop for warmth. I got some bales from a farmer yesterday and when I got them home to have a look, they look kinda old.. Is it safe to use older straw in the coop? Should I be worried about anything? Thank you.

I have found in my own local climate that straw is good for nesting boxes and that is about it.

Old straw is okay as long as it is not full of fungus/spores/dust. That can have ill effects on your chickens breathing. I think that old hay in the run would be acceptable but perhaps not in the coop where air flow is less.

There is nothing wrong with straw being old. The issue is if the bottom or middle has mold.

I've used old straw plenty of times, I just use the moldy bits for mulch elsewhere.

Thank you! I don’t think I saw any mold, but I’ll take a closer look. Thank you for the replies!

I also got some older straw bales from a farmer who could no longer sell them as hay.  He had them tarped but wind exposed some of the bales to rain.  I thought I had used all those up as mulch in the garden areas, but recently opened up a bale that looked fine on the outside.  When I pulled a flake off, whitish powder puffed out into the air.  Most likely spores.  

So just be careful when you pull your bales apart.  Mine had been in dry storage for several months at that point.  Don't be breathing in at the same time you pull straw off the bales, LOL!  I used that bale in the turkeys' outdoor area where mud forms (after shaking it apart to let most of the spores blow away,) but not in my layers' coop that is more enclosed.  

I have an old barn that has had a layer of loose straw since before we bought it. I have been gathering that for bedding as we are working on cleaning the hay loft. It is dry and not packed tight so no mold, and I grab, not sweep, to avoid as much dust and debris as possible. I am alternating layers with dead leaves from the woods. Haven't had any issues so far.

The problem I would see with packed bales is the hidden moisture, so you should evaluate each bale on its own merits.

Keep in mind most farms use an herbicide to keep the weeds out of the hay field. I've composted old coop straw in the past and it had a detrimental effect on my plants. As in, killed everything in the garden; The herbicide can take up to three years to break down. Serious. I put up a post here regarding that experience. I was going to use Alfalfa this year, but that was $28/bale, so I baled on that and picked up the straw yesterday for the chickens.

It seems to be okay in the nesting boxes.

Richard Hanson wrote:Keep in mind most farms use an herbicide to keep the weeds out of the hay field. I've composted old coop straw in the past and it had a detrimental effect on my plants. As in, killed everything in the garden; The herbicide can take up to three years to break down. Serious. I put up a post here regarding that experience. I was going to use Alfalfa this year, but that was $28/bale, so I baled on that and picked up the straw yesterday for the chickens.

It seems to be okay in the nesting boxes.

Yes! This is a huge concern of mine because I’m composting the straw. This straw in particular comes from an organic farm so I know it hasn’t been sprayed. I pulled the bales out of his barn loft. I just don’t know how old they are….

Thank you!

Timothy Norton wrote:I have found in my own local climate that straw is good for nesting boxes and that is about it.

Old straw is okay as long as it is not full of fungus/spores/dust. That can have ill effects on your chickens breathing. I think that old hay in the run would be acceptable but perhaps not in the coop where air flow is less.

That is true, Tim.  But Tractor Supply sells some very tight bales of clean straw: It is actually good enough to grow mushrooms in, so you know that there is no funky stuff in it.
What else I like is that this straw is chopped fairly fine, so it does not mat. [No long straggling length that get full of poop.]
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/greenway-farmstraw-fine-shred-animal-bedding-gwfsf20-1643695?store=194&cid=Shopping-Google-Local_Feed&utm_medium=Google&utm_source=Shopping&utm_campaign=&utm_content=Local_Feed&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAqNSsBhAvEiwAn_tmxen_-2I6U1PH736Th5vf6z3RFgQxPQeV1QLazfNOlZmlb4mbn5tilhoCrJAQAvD_BwE
This said, I use pine shavings for the floor and straw for the laying boxes: Straw is a bit warmer [but my coop his insulated and has a small ceramic heater, so it rarely goes lower than 40 F in there].
The pine shavings are easier and cheaper to remove and use as mulch in the garden once it is soiled.
But my discovery for this year is the poop shelves:
I made their roosting bars and about 6" below, I placed shelves: pieces of fairly thin plywood on which I placed a sheet of PVC [like they use in showers and bathtubs]. Once a week, I can scrape the poop into a couple of homer buckets and I empty them in next year's garden or put it on top of mulch, under the fruit trees. By doing this, I can easily keep their floor bedding clean for months [like 4-5 months]. I am due to clean it this week, but not because it is full of poop. No. It has gotten very dusty as they walk in an out with dirty feet.
Also, to keep the poop relatively dry, I sprinkle on the shelves some PDZ. It is a product to lower the ammonia in horse stalls:
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/sweet-pdz-stall-refresher-25-lb-5065990?store=194&cid=Shopping-Google-Local_Feed&utm_medium=Google&utm_source=Shopping&utm_campaign=&utm_content=Local_Feed&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAqNSsBhAvEiwAn_tmxZL5Oci_dMYr0CpCdD4tcUJUbn-CgHYWZ-KSu71Ja4kczo4GMxB0FxoCBKYQAvD_BwE
At first, the chickens were trying to eat it and I was worried, but  they don't: I think it is hard for their beak to pick a fine dusting off a flat surface. a bit like trying to pick up a coin with very short nails.
Their roost are made of 2" X 4" and are slightly tilted: I discovered that by tilting them, they hang their claws over the high side, which means that their fluffy buns are in a straight row. This way, the piles of poop are also in straight rows, making them easier to scrape off.
This way, I keep all my birds nice smelling, dry and warm in the winter and I save myself a lot of work and money.
The eggs I sell are also cleaner, although I have a couple of girls who will deposit one right in the poop, once in a while! Those just can't be sold!

Cécile Stelzer Johnson wrote:I made their roosting bars and about 6" below, I placed shelves: pieces of fairly thin plywood on which I placed a sheet of PVC [like they use in showers and bathtubs]. Once a week, I can scrape the poop into a couple of homer buckets and I empty them in next year's garden or put it on top of mulch, under the fruit trees. By doing this, I can easily keep their floor bedding clean for months [like 4-5 months].

This sounds awesome! I would love to see a picture to visualize better if you had one. My chickens have decided to roost everywhere EXCEPT the various roost bars of different sizes, heights, and locations I have provided them (go figure). So I am still trying to figure out how to contain the mess.

L Amborn wrote:

Timothy Norton wrote:I made their roosting bars and about 6" below, I placed shelves: pieces of fairly thin plywood on which I placed a sheet of PVC [like they use in showers and bathtubs]. Once a week, I can scrape the poop into a couple of homer buckets and I empty them in next year's garden or put it on top of mulch, under the fruit trees. By doing this, I can easily keep their floor bedding clean for months [like 4-5 months].

This sounds awesome! I would love to see a picture to visualize better if you had one. My chickens have decided to roost everywhere EXCEPT the various roost bars of different sizes, heights, and locations I have provided them (go figure). So I am still trying to figure out how to contain the mess.

I can take a picture with my phone, but after that, I'm all thumbs about getting it on Permies. That's why I always use websites that have pictures to explain. It is easy to mess up. I see that you attributed my post to Tim. It's OK, though. I am not expecting royalties, Haha.

Cécile Stelzer Johnson wrote:I can take a picture with my phone, but after that, I'm all thumbs about getting it on Permies. That's why I always use websites that have pictures to explain. It is easy to mess up. I see that you attributed my post to Tim. It's OK, though. I am not expecting royalties, Haha.

Oh for goodness sake, I cannot get the hang of this thing! Sorry! And apparently you need approval to edit haha. No problem about the picture if it is too difficult, I am just always into chicken hacks

Donna Lynn...
...just so you know... that " hay " you bought as straw is not a common phenomenon... EVER... Straw in its only form will never have seeds within... it just does not. That is the primary reason strawbale homes use this medium as there are zero seeds to attract mice and other rodents..the hollow shafts from typically oats provides the insulating qualities.

The only time you may find mold/rot within straw is it was left outside which is never the case for a true farmer as they also use this grand product to bed their cattle and other critters to help keep them warm... the last thing they need or want is vermin in their livestock...

If it were me I'd pull it all out and get the real deal...I'm sorry you were flim flammed...

Cécile Stelzer Johnson wrote:

Timothy Norton wrote:I have found in my own local climate that straw is good for nesting boxes and that is about it.

Old straw is okay as long as it is not full of fungus/spores/dust. That can have ill effects on your chickens breathing. I think that old hay in the run would be acceptable but perhaps not in the coop where air flow is less.

That is true, Tim.  But Tractor Supply sells some very tight bales of clean straw: It is actually good enough to grow mushrooms in, so you know that there is no funky stuff in it.
What else I like is that this straw is chopped fairly fine, so it does not mat. [No long straggling length that get full of poop.]
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/greenway-farmstraw-fine-shred-animal-bedding-gwfsf20-1643695?store=194&cid=Shopping-Google-Local_Feed&utm_medium=Google&utm_source=Shopping&utm_campaign=&utm_content=Local_Feed&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAqNSsBhAvEiwAn_tmxen_-2I6U1PH736Th5vf6z3RFgQxPQeV1QLazfNOlZmlb4mbn5tilhoCrJAQAvD_BwE
This said, I use pine shavings for the floor and straw for the laying boxes: Straw is a bit warmer [but my coop his insulated and has a small ceramic heater, so it rarely goes lower than 40 F in there].
The pine shavings are easier and cheaper to remove and use as mulch in the garden once it is soiled.
But my discovery for this year is the poop shelves:
I made their roosting bars and about 6" below, I placed shelves: pieces of fairly thin plywood on which I placed a sheet of PVC [like they use in showers and bathtubs]. Once a week, I can scrape the poop into a couple of homer buckets and I empty them in next year's garden or put it on top of mulch, under the fruit trees. By doing this, I can easily keep their floor bedding clean for months [like 4-5 months]. I am due to clean it this week, but not because it is full of poop. No. It has gotten very dusty as they walk in an out with dirty feet.
Also, to keep the poop relatively dry, I sprinkle on the shelves some PDZ. It is a product to lower the ammonia in horse stalls:
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/sweet-pdz-stall-refresher-25-lb-5065990?store=194&cid=Shopping-Google-Local_Feed&utm_medium=Google&utm_source=Shopping&utm_campaign=&utm_content=Local_Feed&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAqNSsBhAvEiwAn_tmxZL5Oci_dMYr0CpCdD4tcUJUbn-CgHYWZ-KSu71Ja4kczo4GMxB0FxoCBKYQAvD_BwE
At first, the chickens were trying to eat it and I was worried, but  they don't: I think it is hard for their beak to pick a fine dusting off a flat surface. a bit like trying to pick up a coin with very short nails.
Their roost are made of 2" X 4" and are slightly tilted: I discovered that by tilting them, they hang their claws over the high side, which means that their fluffy buns are in a straight row. This way, the piles of poop are also in straight rows, making them easier to scrape off.
This way, I keep all my birds nice smelling, dry and warm in the winter and I save myself a lot of work and money.
The eggs I sell are also cleaner, although I have a couple of girls who will deposit one right in the poop, once in a while! Those just can't be sold!

The poop shelf! Or as I call it, the sh*t shelf. I’m a huge fan of this idea. Mine is full of fine pine shavings and then I use a sifting shovel to sift out just the poop, leaving the unsoiled pine behind. Works pretty well, but takes a bit more effort.

I use 2x6 for my perches. My reasoning is simply that it gets so cold here in Wisconsin I want their toes covered completely by their feathers.

Thank you for sharing!

In case anyone is wondering about the sh*t shelf set up. I like it because I have detachable doors for the bottom. If I have a sick or injured chicken or, new chicks to introduce, I can put them underneath the shelf to isolate them from the flock until everyone gets acquainted.

Bob Trow wrote:In case anyone is wondering about the sh*t shelf set up. I like it because I have detachable doors for the bottom. If I have a sick or injured chicken or, new chicks to introduce, I can put them underneath the shelf to isolate them from the flock until everyone gets acquainted.

Ouh! Bob, I really like that set up with the doors under there to isolate a chicken or two. I also have a lower shelf so I could do that. If nothing else, I could put my feed buckets with a lid under there so they can't sit on the lid and poop, like they are wont to do. [I want these buckets[homer pails] to be inside so it doesn't rain or snow on the lid but they just love to jump up on them and ... do their thing!
I have a PVC sheet on my poop shelf to protect  the wood. I feel that it is easy to scrape, and when it gets really too yucky [it hasn't so far in 9 months of using it and cleaning it with a trowel] I could take it outside and clean it up really well with the pressure washer.

Khris Denison wrote:Donna Lynn...
...just so you know... that " hay " you bought as straw is not a common phenomenon... EVER... Straw in its only form will never have seeds within... it just does not. That is the primary reason strawbale homes use this medium as there are zero seeds to attract mice and other rodents..the hollow shafts from typically oats provides the insulating qualities.

The only time you may find mold/rot within straw is it was left outside which is never the case for a true farmer as they also use this grand product to bed their cattle and other critters to help keep them warm... the last thing they need or want is vermin in their livestock...

If it were me I'd pull it all out and get the real deal...I'm sorry you were flim flammed...

Hmmm... I haven't had any issues with mice or anything, even tho we do have small numbers of them in the area.  (A feral cat lives on our property and keeps their numbers down, as well as the rabbit population.)  I've read that chickens would kill and eat mice if they managed to get into the coop.  I have seen the hens scratching around in the straw when I first place it in their area, so there may well be some seeds in it.  The farmer was upfront about it being hay that was too old and dry to sell as such.  I was looking for organic straw bales and having trouble finding them locally, and his hay was grown organically.  I also haven't had any issues with rodents getting into the wooden shed I store the bales in.  I have the layer feed in there too, but it is in a metal trash can that's kept closed tightly to keep insects and such out of it.  

These bales had been stored outside for a short while since the farmer needed the barn space for his more recent harvest.  He had covered them with a large tarp to keep rain off, but the wind had blown a corner of the tarp aside so a few of the bales did get a bit damp and moldy.  He sold them all to me for less than I would have paid for conventional bales, so it was a pretty good deal even tho I had to use the few moldy bales as mulch.  And, bonus!  His son hunted deer but didn't like to process or eat them, so dad had a freezer full of processed deer meat from previous years that he wanted to get rid of.  We had our puppies with us (who eat raw) and had struck up a conversation about that, so the farmer gave us (for free) three grocery sacks full of frozen processed deer meat for the pups!  The dogs got most of it, but we made some "sloppy does" with a package of ground meat from 3 years prior.  It was delicious!  

Really the worst vermin problem we've had so far was with sparrows getting into the chickens' feeders, but moving the feeders out of their sight has taken care of that issue.  Oddly, the chickens just ignored the sparrows and seemed happy to share.   Since we only have the poultry, no cattle or horses or any large animals, the 20 or so bales we got are stored inside a relatively new, secure 10x12' storage shed rather than an old barn with myriad ways for mice to get in.  I had much worse mouse trouble when I lived farther south even with no "food" stored in my pole barn.  Three mousers didn't keep up with the mice back there!  Maybe we're just lucky with our location here.

Yessss to poop shelves and pdz! My system as well! Works so nice and keeps all the straw on the floor clean. The girls will scratch through and mix up whatever poop might land on the floor so I just add a little more every few weeks. Also use pdz under the straw as a base and in nest boxes (with pine and cedar shavings & straw on top.   We also use pdz in our self built compost toilet in our skoolie! (With saw dust from my husband’s carpentry job)
Also If you have a chemical free farmer nearby ask if they can sell you chem free straw! I found out our Amish chemical free feed connection grows and mills all his own ingredients and his own straw for his animals. Just ask around for organic/chem free options!

Heidi Schweitzer wrote:Yessss to poop shelves and pdz! My system as well! Works so nice and keeps all the straw on the floor clean. The girls will scratch through and mix up whatever poop might land on the floor so I just add a little more every few weeks. Also use pdz under the straw as a base and in nest boxes (with pine and cedar shavings & straw on top.   We also use pdz in our self built compost toilet in our skoolie! (With saw dust from my husband’s carpentry job)
Also If you have a chemical free farmer nearby ask if they can sell you chem free straw! I found out our Amish chemical free feed connection grows and mills all his own ingredients and his own straw for his animals. Just ask around for organic/chem free options!

Yep. the poop shelf is the only way to go with roosting birds!
Somehow, my pine shavings on the floor get too dusty to just add more. Our soil, outside is very sandy, but the organic particles cling to their feet & make a lot of dust. I suspect also that after their molt, they produce a lot of dander. When I toss the pine shavings litter and use it as mulch, I always feel like I'm wasting.
The PDZ is good against ammonia odor, that's for sure. It never smells bad in there.
Their covered winter run [kind of a hoop house] is just a big sandbox. When I see them making a dust bath it it, I put some DE.
Before too long, no matter where they decide to sandbathe they will do it in the DE.
Another place where I put a bit of DE is in their laying boxes. but just a touch: they won't dust bathe in their sandbox but as extra insurance against lice and other repugnant cooties, it can't be beat.
Maybe it is also the breed [I have some sapphire gems] but they seem to be cleaner than other breeds I've had. Although they poop a lot on the poop shelves, they don't poop so much on the floor. I've had other breeds [Black Brahma, orpingtons, Isa brown, who seem to poop anywhere with abandon. Maybe it is the poop shelves, since they do most of their pooping at night, while roosting. It is as if they understand that this is the right place for it. [I don't really think they understand that much, but this breed surprises me]:
In the morning, when I come to feed them and let them out, I get in their yard through a different door so that I don't have to walk among them and risk getting tripped. They don't always see where I scatter their grain and they are so funny: They run outside and stop, confused. I point to the general direction where the scratch grain is that day and they go there after very little coaxing.