Rocket stove fashion

Hi Erica and Ernie
I like the idea of the rocket stove unfortunetly the ones I have looked at so far while being practical look like what they are , something made of of scrap and stuff . I dont mind this .
Unfortunetly my partner being french has a different ethic and for her the esthetic "est plus important " She would prefer something like a soap stone finnish stove . I would prefer being able to afford one of these masonary stoves and keeping the change
Have you any suggestions for a compremise.
I did wonder if you were aware of anyone thinking of selling rocket stove kits . I suspect a rocketstove kit on a pallet where all you would do would be to add water could be a viable product .

David

Well David, having a french gal is exhausting! I know i'm French. And i far prefer brits for example. In general, any gal which is not latin based speaking, or south european. Most of them being a pain in the ......

Anyway, if you want, i have a few designs which she might like.

You can suround the barrel with a brick latice for example. Or use à sleeve of coper. 1 or two inch away from the barrel, to funnel the hot air, cooling the barrel by convection. Another idea is to make an horizontal batch rocket, in the shape of a french "cheminee" (fireplace) where the "hotte" would hide the barrel, and make a convection funnel around it. Make it thick enough and you can use the back and sides for the mass, and as well as the "bucher" or "cendrier" For the bench, there's planty of ways. Wood panneling around cob, bricks, stones etc.

This rocket is french and cool looking.

http://zmrenovations.centerblog.net/2.html

Few nice pics there http://www.examiner.com/slideshow/rocket-mass-heaters#slide=48342606

If you're skilled, you could also hide it under ground. Mostly.

Check Donkey32's site, there's a few pics.

This too

http://www.google.fr/search?q=rocket+mass+heater&safe=off&hl=fr&rlz=1T4ADFA_frFR472FR472&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=ZorJUeWUMpO5hAfaqIHIBg&ved=0CD4QsAQ&biw=1864&bih=778

She might like something.

I'm in the same boat, my wife does not like the look of the 55 bare metal drum in the living room. Thanks for the links Satamax. I like the porcelin looking cover on the french Rocket Mass Heater. I've never seen that idea before. I wonder if its enameled metal? I wonder why more people don't at least use high temp black BBQ grill paint on the metal?

I hear you Antone and we could easy derail this thread on thoughts about French vs British women but another day over a glass maybe . You never know who could be reading this .......

Yes the 55 drum the size and being bare metal ... sticks out like a sore thumb and the cob clay melted look would not fit in many houses .
Just a thought is there anyone in France fitting these fires as a professional buisness ?

If they were doing enough then there maybe more leeway for other designs . Since the drum as far as I understand is to be full of insulating material to create a plasma condition inside does it have to be round ? ( inside yes out side no ? )does it have to be metal ( if fully insulated then it will not get warm )? Since there must be a minimum amount of insulation having extra insulation means that the shape could be square oblong etc .

Just a couple of thoughts

David

David L. : Actually you have to flip that coin over, We need* the barrel to be mostly uninsulated,and exposed to the environment of the room to allow the drum to be
rapidly cooled in relation to the Heat Riser/Top Of the Drum, this is needed for the strong Rocket effect we are trying to create !

* Because you, me, and 'our neighbor' wants these things to be a success right out of the box, you are given a design for a Nearly Fool-Proof 1st design ! There are
people who have covered all but the very top of their drums, and learned how to run their Rocket Mass Heater that way, however, everyone but a few Well meaning
Soles who have put their Jreck on You Tube (!), Want your initial build to be a working model.

I would rather talk with The Guy Who has Built One R.M.H., and lived with it for a Year, than Someone who has spent the last year building a Dozen of Them !

There are limitations to working with Cob outdoors, but that should not stop you from experimenting, Once your other half knows this will work , the two of you can
work on their idea of making it Beautiful !

Pick 1 or 2 specific questions and comeback here and ask Erica, and Ernie your Questions Big Al !

Sometimes Al I feel we are two people seperated by a common Language and sometimes I dont fully understand what you are trying to tell me .

* Because you, me, and 'our neighbor' wants these things to be a success right out of the box, you are given a design for a Nearly Fool-Proof 1st design ! There are
people who have covered all but the very top of their drums, and learned how to run their Rocket Mass Heater that way, however, everyone but a few Well meaning
Soles who have put their Jreck on You Tube (!), Want your initial build to be a working model.

Are you suggesting that some of the people who put stuff on you tube really dont know what they are talking about ? I knew this already but I have little confidence on building one 'right ' first time where as I might be prepared to pay someone who has more skill and experiance than me



I would rather talk with The Guy Who has Built One R.M.H., and lived with it for a Year, than Someone who has spent the last year building a Dozen of Them !

So would I but I do not see this as an either or situation . I would be looking for someone who has built others and over some time

There are limitations to working with Cob outdoors

Sorry who was talking about out doors ? I am confused

Pick 1 or 2 specific questions and comeback here and ask Erica, and Ernie your Questions Big Al !

Ok if I come up with any other questions I will start another thread If I had known you were filtering questions I would have made the question more open and not just to Erica and Ernie

David

David Livingston: Its really not fair that the people around me have to suffer for my infirmities !

My thoughts connected to Outdoors was, As your first trial of a potential build should be outside anyways, the necessity of a beautiful finished product that you can
give " Pride of place to'' in your house, is secondary to a successful build. If your spouse could be introduced to an R.M.H. in as positive a manner as possible she
may surprise you with a willingness to allow you more freedom for exploration !

Actually I am guilty of kidnaping it ! I started off to make one small point and fell in love with my deathless prose ! :0 Big AL !

Guys, it's late night for me, after "apero" My head is a bit shakey. But there's one good thing about rocket mass heaters. There's plenty of leaway on the design. Well, you can go from J tube to horizontal batch rocket. , that's already an adjustment variable. Then, your heat riser needs to be insulated, and in a metal radiator, thought, you can also use a bell. , ok, you might need a more reactive heat riser in a bell. Ie, first third of thin refractory, and the rest made out of stainless steel. Realy well insulated. While on a J tube, with a barrel with the proper gap, the draft might be increased by the "radiator" (barrel) therefor you could be a smidge more lousy on the heat riser insulation. Or have more mass , ie, heat riser made out of bricks. . Then, your bench can be made out of cob, and pipes, but also from half barrels to form a bell. Or else, a proper brick bell, which is diferent, but will still work in the end. Let say, you use a nice stainless steel, polished or engine turned compressor tank, for the barrel. And you don't have a oil drum in your living room anymore. If your mass is big enough, you wouldn't have a high enough temp to scorch wood, so you could use wood panneling to hold your cob. Or may be bricks. Or else, stones. Then may be you want your mass bench to be a bell, and use concrete blocks, which you could cover with teracota tiles, or floor tiles (i don't know how to translate faience) Cover your mass with portuguese azulejos for example. The ultimate limit is "does it still fit with the desingn of a rocket stove? " ans what can you afford? Or what will your imagination be able to come out with. Frankly, you can do pretty much anything, providing you provide enough thinkinh into it. And you're not too short on moneyy. So you can't escape the scavenged materials. Even tho, scavenged stuff, if you put enough time looking for parts, can look wonderfull too.

Thanks for the great questions!
We did a lengthy discussion about the barrel itself, and some of the suggestions and constraints are here:
Oil Drum In My Living Room: Design Competition

We are also collecting examples of other bench aesthetics: fieldstone, brick, wood trim, and other versions that might appeal to a more traditional aesthetic.
A well-built masonry heater will be the durable heart of the home, and it's important that the local Hestia loves it.

Here are a couple of examples - barrel still visible - and one oversized photo of our copper heat shield on the stone heater in our home..




-Erica W

Satamax Antone wrote:Guys, it's late night for me, after "apero" My head is a bit shakey. But there's one good thing about rocket mass heaters. There's plenty of leaway on the design. Well, you can go from J tube to horizontal batch rocket. , that's already an adjustment variable. Then, your heat riser needs to be insulated, and in a metal radiator, thought, you can also use a bell. , ok, you might need a more reactive heat riser in a bell. Ie, first third of thin refractory, and the rest made out of stainless steel. Realy well insulated. While on a J tube, with a barrel with the proper gap, the draft might be increased by the "radiator" (barrel) therefor you could be a smidge more lousy on the heat riser insulation. Or have more mass , ie, heat riser made out of bricks. . Then, your bench can be made out of cob, and pipes, but also from half barrels to form a bell. Or else, a proper brick bell, which is diferent, but will still work in the end. Let say, you use a nice stainless steel, polished or engine turned compressor tank, for the barrel. And you don't have a oil drum in your living room anymore. If your mass is big enough, you wouldn't have a high enough temp to scorch wood, so you could use wood panneling to hold your cob. Or may be bricks. Or else, stones. Then may be you want your mass bench to be a bell, and use concrete blocks, which you could cover with teracota tiles, or floor tiles (i don't know how to translate faience) Cover your mass with portuguese azulejos for example. The ultimate limit is "does it still fit with the desingn of a rocket stove? " ans what can you afford? Or what will your imagination be able to come out with. Frankly, you can do pretty much anything, providing you provide enough thinkinh into it. And you're not too short on moneyy. So you can't escape the scavenged materials. Even tho, scavenged stuff, if you put enough time looking for parts, can look wonderfull too.

The problem with the number of variations available, is that many of them don't follow the same rule set.

For example, If there is no insulated heat riser, it is not a rocket mass heater. Arguably a 'batch burn' or horizontal-feed setup is not a rocket mass heater - it's a variation more closely related to contraflow stoves, and may require a different set of methods to achieve a clean burn.

There are many excellent masonry heater designs out there for 'bell stoves,' contraflow stoves, and the like. But a hybrid of these stoves often fails to work properly - a great deal of work has gone into perfecting each design. The proportions of draft, fuel, air, and heated mass must be somewhat balanced for a chance of success, and a surprising number of variables can affect these balances.

If the design has not been used regularly for at least a year, and proven to burn cleanly without creosote, I would not recommend it as anything more than a backyard experiment.

The polished-steel option is indeed a great alternative for 'upgrading' the barrel, but doesn't radiate heat quite as efficiently. Still, polished steel 'barrels' have been proven to work, as have water-heater tank parts (non-insulated). Take a look at the Oil Drum in my Living Room thread for a lot of similar options.

Yours,
Erica

Erica, i said there was variables. But i didn't speak of uninsulated heat risers. I said there might be better insulated heat risers than others. And may be one inside a barrel, with proper barrel gaps might not need as good insulation as one in a bell, as the barrel participates to the draft, while a bell, either metal one or massonry one might not cool the gasses as fast and increase the draft the way the barrel does. And, about the horizontal batch rocket being a contraflow. Well, to me it's more rocket than anything. OK, a L shape rocket, like the original cooking ones. Ok with an enlarged batch box, and a venturi at the end between batch box and heat riser. But for the rest, it's the same. I know Ernie goes mad if it's not by the book rocket. But this one, i think, can bear the name. It has the sound

Also, bells, after the rocket core would it be J or L tube/heat riser/barrel, can give a great advantage to be able to store heat verticaly instead of horizontaly, when space is tight.

HI Erica ,
I was thinking about your copper cheat around the barrel ,in hi school we used to experiment with copper sulfide ,water, low voltage , a copper rod and a piece of metal , the copper would go true the mix of copper sulfide and water to form a thin film on the metal piece this is just an idea i had ,maybe something to look into