When to get animals?

I know this is a big ol' "it depends" question BUT would like some advice anyways.  I just recently purchased 12.5a of mostly wooded property in southern Vermont zone 5b.  About 1/3 of the property is very young forest with lots of brush and saplings and the plan is to start a food forest in that area and do more understory forest gardening withing the existing trees in the back of the property with the more mature stand.  I'm camped out on the property and should have my yurt up in a few weeks so minimal infrastructure at the moment.  I know I want fiber goats and ducks but the question is when?  The earliest I could have shelter up for animals and get prepared is this spring so I could get animals then OR wait a few years until my farm is more established and I have better pasture.  It would be great to have their help upfront with land clearing etc but I want to make sure that its still a healthy and safe environment for them!

This will be a production farm and my main source of income so my main considerations/questions are:

- How well will having goats for fiber and ducks for eggs help fill the income gap while I'm waiting for my food forest to mature?

- Will living in a mostly forested area (at least short term) be healthy for the animals? (I'm thinking pygora or nigora goats and runner ducks)

- How hard is it generally to find animal care if I want to go away for a few days?

There's a lot more questions floating around in my noggin but thats the gist of it!

Welcome to permies!

First, know that I don't have livestock yet. I recommend not to get animals until you have their fencing and housing completed. I see many permies rushing to complete shelters for animals they already have. This is problematic because shit happens, and other things are bumped to needing to be done NOW.

I would also be sure that the funds to feed them are available for the growing season. Again, shit happens. I would not depend on the animals to bring in funds to feed themselves. Again, shit happens. Do you already have the contacts needed to sell your products? Specifically, the fiber. I have learned here at permies, that many sheep farmers compost their wool, because fleece prices are lower then the cost of getting them to market... Or they get a rebate to compost that is higher than market value.

Joylyn has given you some very good advice.

We always bought our animal locally.

Several reason to do this.

The rancher will be close by in case you have questions or need help.

When I had goats the local `goat lady` helped us learn about castrating and de-horning.  Both very important to anyone raising goats.

Ask at the local feed store as they know who has/sells goats.

Depending upon the animal, you may want to locate vets now and find out what they will and will not do …. In terms of home visits, etc. also find out the  $$$.   I went to a vet and was charged $150.00.  I switched vets and was charged $10 for the same procedure.

Hi Andy,
As soon as you have the fencing and shelter and food for the animals, I would get the animals. I would not wait until the land "gets better" as the animals will help this happen SO much faster.

The goats and the ducks should be fine in a wooded area for a while. We imagine ducks in a pond and goats in a pasture, but in reality, animals in the wild like the edges of forests/fields quite a bit.

Finding care obviously depends on where you are. If there are a lot of farms or homesteaders around then it shouldn't be too hard. If not, then I would start asking around and see if someone could come over once a month to help you. This will give them the training they need to be able to take care of them if you need to go away for a while.

Income is the hardest piece I think. It is relatively easy to raise animals or veggies. It is much harder to sell products to people. It is relatively easy to earn some money from selling things, but it is much harder to earn enough to make a living. Unless you have a decent amount of savings, I would expect to need income from somewhere else while you scale up and get customers.

Thanks for all the info!!  I'm a fiber artist and plan to process the majority of the fiber myself and sell full fleeces of what I can't.  I don't have a huge customer base by any stretch but still some available sales outlets already.   I think it makes the most sense to get animals first after everyone's comments.  They'll be a big driving force in my landscape so planning my food forest around their habits seems easier than trying to integrate them into a system after the fact and have it not be designed well for them!  Plus the fact that they'll make their own pasture is a huge plus!  I'm not planning on doing any breeding or milking so looking at getting 3-5 pygora or nigora does and/or wethers this spring. Can't wait!!

If anyone knows of good farms in the Northeast US to get kids from please let me know!

I agree with Matt. I’ve noticed my fields are worse shape now than they were 2years ago when I had animals and I’ve done a ton of work trying to improve pretty much to no avail. I can only imagine how much better it when I get them again this spring with ability to rotate. So if you need to buy hay to get them going it is worth it imo.

It took me about two years to figure a plan where I wasn’t losing money on animals. For me it was sell the pairs and buy steers in spring. I had them sold ahead of time and dropped them at butcher for the customers after 6month feed out.  That was profitable. I lost my backside trying cow/calf operation.

So far I’ve never met someone who broke even on eggs but i liked having them and the compost had value that most don’t figure in profit.

Is it really possible to make an income from a handful of goats? I know nothing about fiber at all so I’m genuinely curious not being negative.

Is the property already fenced for goats? I don’t have actual today prices but 4years ago when I built fence the heavy duty goat fence was 3x the cost of six strand barb wire. (Initially I thought I’d clear my land with goats) goats and fence were so expensive I just hired a dozer lol.

Check out vets. Some here won’t see all animals. Here it’s mostly cow, horses, and dog/cat. Actually I don’t think any here see sheep or goat.  

So my vote is as soon as fence and structure is up. And congrats on the land!

Lots of great advice, already! I got goats (Nigora) before the needed infrastructure. It was a stressful mess, and was NOT the way I'd intended, but the goats kinda fell into my lap, unexpectedly.

Pygora (pygmy & Angora mix) are a meat goat. Nigora (Nigerian Dwarf & Angora mix) are the dairy version. By next spring, we will have F4 Nigoras on the ground, on our farm, putting us only 2 generations out from full breed status. One or two other farms will be working toward F5, for next spring. I have friends all over the country, who are working toward that goal - there are roughly 100 Nigora breeders across the country, at my last check. I'm in Central Missouri, but there are great Nigora folks I can put you in contact with, in your neck of the woods.