dog food

If you don't want to feed your dog dogfood, is it better to feed him raw meat or cooked meat? If raw, I would worry about E coli 0157 or Salmonella. But in the wild, animals eat raw meat. Maybe their lifespan is shorter because the meat isn't cooked first?

I've heard of people feeding their animals "BARF" - which is an acronym that means (I think) raw meat.

Interesting! Good educated guess, Paul. "Bones And Raw Food" although using cooked and blended vegetables is recommended. Sounds like more work though. Is it worth it? I guess it depends.

I've been feeding my dogs raw meat (including raw bones and organ meat too) and ground vegetables for 7 years now. One that was very ill at 7 is now looking like a puppy. IF anything it has increased her life-span. The thing about their digestive system is that the stomach acid is more acidic than ours, and the food moves through their system faster. So, e-coli is not a problem if it doesn't have time to get established. Raw food cannot be mixed with a diet of kibble though. Kibble reduces acidity and slows absorption.  Check out Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats by Kymythy R. Schultze. This book explains how to make a raw food diet that's well balanced.

just to add a note for any tacoma readers: carolyn is the woman to talk to about good dog food on the cheap. truly amazing. she's a waitress and has food scraps down to a science. anyone who is a waitress has a Huge resource to tap into. and her dog is the healthiest critter around

An old freind of mine is a butcher and I have considered hitting him up for any scraps that are not fit for human consumption to feed my dogs. Does anyone know if selling meat scraps for dogs has the same legal restrictions as selling regular meat?

I just switched my dog from high end dry food to home cooking about three weeks ago. Mostly he eats brown rice and veggies (kale, brocolli, carrots, beets) and once or twice a week he gets some raw beef or a few raw eggs mixed in there. I also took him off frontline since I realized how bad it's been. He gets out of our fenced yard and his picked up some fleas, so I have to bath him once a week while I'm building up his skin. I always mix in nutritional yeast to his meal (a cup and a half apx. 115lbs dog) as I read that and garlic are good so the skin doesn't taste good to fleas. I also add 1/4 cup of olive/sunflower/grapeseed oil to the dinner bowl. makes it all much tastier to the pup, and his coat has had an amazing change since switching from dry food.

I visited a farm where they had this old cat.  The fur on this old cat was super thick.  The people said that about three years ago the cat looked like it was minutes from the grave and then started feeding it raw milk (right from their own cow) and raw food.  The cat's fur got really thick and the cat looked five years younger.

the only things i don't feed dogs is cooked chicken or cooked bones as they shatter differently than raw and may cause chocking problem, the dog scavenges bones at BBQ's though and has never choked

Dogs seem to love putrid meat (yuk) in the wild, or dug up, so i don't think e-coli would be a large prob

if your butchers do not sell dog meat, just ask for soup bones

i also cook a brew of rice, lentles and veg to supplement diet

IIRC, raw milk is legal to sell as pet food, but not as human food.

I think the restrictions are extremely lax on animal feed, to the point that a lot of chicken feed has arsenic added intentionally.

Mike Adams
Natural News
Monday, Dec 7th, 2009

Imagine being watched by two undercover cops as you engage in an illicit deal in a deserted parking lot. The buyer hesitantly hands you some cash. You flash a look over your shoulder, just to make sure the coast is clear, then you hand over the contraband. Neither of you says a word. You just nod, acknowledging the deal is done, then you head back to your car and buckle up for the drive home.
But before you can even put the car into drive, a screeching formation of police cars, surrounds you, sirens wailing. Armed officers leap from their vehicles, guns drawn and sunglasses glaring. “Come out with your hands up!” they shout.You slowly open the driver’s door of your car and inch out of your seat with both hands raised in surrender, cowering behind the open door. “What did I do, officer? What’s my crime?”
Their answer comes back loud and intimidating: “SELLING RAW MILK!”
                   
                        Springfield Missouri: Where farmers are branded criminals

The above description is a dramatization of real events that happened recently in Springfield, Missouri, where the state has decided to spend considerable taxpayer resources running a sting operating against a family that was caught dealing — gulp! — raw milk in a parking lot.

Yes, both the Missouri Dept. of Health and the state Attorney General (Chris Koster) have decided that prosecuting a farm family for illegally “trafficking” raw milk should be at the top of their list of priorities. The family being targeted by state officials is the Bechard family, of Armand and Teddi Bechard, and their children Joseph, Hananiah, Kazia and Katie.

The name of the cow offering the milk is reportedly “Misty.”

As the Springfield, Missouri News-Leader paper reports, “Two undercover investigators with the Springfield-Greene County Health Department allegedly caught two of the couple’s daughters on two occasions selling a gallon of milk each from a Springfield parking lot. Charges followed in municipal court.”
In case you’re not yet sure what you’re reading here, note carefully that these daughters were not caught selling crack, meth or crank. They weren’t dealing second-hand pharmaceuticals to yuppie school kids. They weren’t selling e.coli-contaminated hamburger meat, cancer-causing diet sodas (made with aspartame) or canned soups laced with MSG. They weren’t even selling broiler chickens contaminated with salmonella — just as you can find in every grocery store in America. Nope, they were selling raw milk. You know, the bovine mother’s milk, unpasteurized, unprocessed, non-homogenized and wholly pure, natural and innocent. The stuff America was raised on. The stuff your parents fed you when you were a kid, if your family was lucky enough to have a cow.

In Missouri today, selling such a natural product is now apparently a criminal act. What’s next? A ban on farm-fresh eggs because the Dept. of Health doesn’t control their quality? The outlawing of raw broccoli because broccoli contains natural anti-cancer medicine?
Fortunately, the Bechard family is fighting back. As reported by the News-Leader:

“They will not sign a consent order to make the state’s complaint go away and they’re defending themselves against the city charges, too. They’ve gotten legal help from the The Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund, a nonprofit organization made up of farmers and consumers pooling resources to fight for the rights of family farmers trying to get unprocessed food to consumers who want it.”

here the suit version of the raw milk story

http://www.kspr.com/news/whereyoulive/webster/78110692.html

oh the horror! raw milk! someone is selling raw milk!   we can sell up to 100 gallons a month off farm here (legally)

I want to mention that bacterial contamination is not as big an issue with dogs. they have much tougher digestive systems. besides. properly handled meat shouldn't be laden with bacteria anyway.  feeding milk to animals can pose the same problem as with some humans. lack of lactase to digest the lactose. yogurt is probably a better option.

there is a deer processing plant near me and they are always glad to fill a garbage sack with bones and meat left over from deer processing.

Marilyn de Queiroz wrote:If you don't want to feed your dog dogfood, is it better to feed him raw meat or cooked meat? If raw, I would worry about E coli 0157 or Salmonella. But in the wild, animals eat raw meat. Maybe their lifespan is shorter because the meat isn't cooked first?

There are lots of advocates for raw food and pretty good evidence for health benefits. I think it's worth trying with a sickly dog, but having done it for two dogs for awhile with no perceptible improvements, I felt that it wasn't worth the disgust factor and inherent risks - and there are some. Dogs also gain something from cooking, just as we do, so you can go either way. I'll say that my dogs lived long and prospered on their cooked food. Your dog *might* do better with raw food and might not, so it's really up to what you think is best.

Just a thought, i met this girl who taught me a few things about getting roadkill, as we were both searching for the nearby doe that had been struck by a car. We found the poor creature dead down the side of an embankment not too far from where it was hit. Long story short, as we traded parts of the doe, this skilled young lady (abt. 23 yrs old) butchered the doe like a professional, knowing exactly how and where to cut the body parts... Go figure. We got to talking bout our pets and i asked her if i could give some to my dogs, is it safe, and she replied, "yes, just as long as you freeze the meat first for at least 3 weeks or was it 3 months.. im not sure, so you might want to do a lil due diligence for yourself, but she said that the freezing of the meat is required to kill of some bacteria or what have you not, in order to keep the dogs from getting worms or some other parasites... That could be the  case  for only wild game and not store bought, idk. But i would do a lil more reaearch before i gave them anything. My dogs ended up eating all of the deer that i brought home within hours of me bringing it home. I tried skinning the deer for its hyde and by the next morning my dogs had gotten into the area where i was keeping the doe and ate every last piece |of her.

Feeding raw, generally is not an issue of bacteria, for the dog - they can handle it - but for the humans who may inadvertently ("kisses" - dog licks - or touching fur when they groom by licking) come in contact and contract the bacteria.

Parasites though CAN be easily transferred to the pet AND human. In many cases freezing will kill the parasites (as with Sushi) but can still fail (as with Sushi and the numbers of humans who have contracted parasites from ingesting the raw fish).

Failure cause is unknown to me, was it not frozen long enough; were the Temps not low enough; was the parasite unaffected by freezing?  

I do know someone who regularly fed fresh killed deer to their many dogs, parasites were a huge issue. Same location, same dogs, same owners stopped feeding the raw deer meat, replaced with commercial kibble and have never had issues since. This is by no means a true test, but...

Cost (and potential harm) of dewormers more than offset the "savings" of feeding raw deer vs commercial kibble, in this case.

I agree and disagree when it comes  not to feed  raw meat diet for dogs. Personally, I wouldn't. Wild or commercially bred.
Dry kibble is not as great but then again, it depends on a dog. Our dog "outlived" his  sickness by at least 5-6 years! We fed him with mixture of  kibble prescribed by the vet and steamed/raw vegetables, fruits and homemade cooked meals. No fried foods and no junk foods/snacks.
This is still controversial subject now, as it was "eons" ago.
I say this; get to know your dog. Observe the poo and how often. No cooked/roasted/baked bones. Thank you

I have made my own dog food for almost 15 years.  I ran a boarding kennel and training center for 12.   Have seen a LOT of dogs and fed dogs almost every food an owner could provide. I have seen people attempt to make dog food many times. Very few do it successfully.

It’s not just the outside of the dog we are feeding.  It’s the liver, the pancreas, the bowels.  It possible to malnourish or cause permanent injury with the wrong foods in the wrong amounts. Because dogs are not built like people. They do not have the same nutritional requirements that we do.  Their bodies cannot process or use some of the foods we eat. It’s not just “things that are bad for dogs” like excessive amounts of chocolate.

What is important is What specifically you feed and how much of it you feed to meets the nutritional requirements of your specific dog; his breed, his age and his current health.

People tell me all the time “ that their dog does great on a raw diet, or chicken and rice or ?”  Based on what? That the dog eats it? What is the nutritional requirement of a dog?

If you’re like most people you are feeding what someone recommended: a breeder, a friend, Petco; or maybe what you can afford.

If you are feeding a prepared food I urge you to learn to actually read the labeling.  Not just the first ingredient but the whole thing.  Understand the rations of fats, calories, proteins. If you are lost I encourage you to subscribe to Dog Food Advisor and their bulletins regarding pet food recalls. It’s an eye opener.

If you are considering making fresh wholesome dog food then do your homework.  Read. Talk to a knowledgeable animal nutritionist. Have your veterinarian refer a nutritionist.

Making fresh healthy dog food is not cheap.  The alternative is what people are discussing on this thread.  Leftovers. Trimmings. Roadkill.

Really?

There are lots of fresh wholesome foods you can feed your dog.  It’s your job not to guess or to say “ I heard that.....” Just like children your dog has no choices.  Your dogs long term health is your problem. Don’t guess.

Good info! All I have to say about raw meat is this; my dogs eat cat crap (my hubs calls the litter pan the "candy dish"), wild turkey crap, elk crap, chicken crap, and they lick dirt (they're diggers). Fresh raw meat can't possibly be any worse. I wouldn't feed them raw pork because of the dangers of trichinosis. I mix raw egg yolks in their food from my chickens to make sure they get enough Omega 3s to keep their coats in good shape. And a lot of the time, I just feed them what we're having for dinner.

If things get worse out there, the cats will have to start making do with eggs. Probably better for them than commercial cat food anyway. Eggs I have in abundance.