Be Nice

Today I shall add IMO and IMHO to the naughty word list (as soon as I finish writing this post).  

We have a lot of text speak that has made it onto that list over the years, but these two are especially interesting.  

To put "in my opinion" at the end of the post, means that the writer knows (consciously or subconsciously) that there is something in that post that is not nice or will likely offend the reader.  So they put 'in my opinion' as a way of defending themselves from any reprisal.

A strong example of this is ending a communication with "no offence"

You stink,
no offence.

Therefore if someone complains about being told they stink, they are just making a um, stink about something that wasn't meant to offend.

Of course, comments on personal hygiene problems are obviously going to offend.  And quite often, putting IMO afterwards, just makes that offence worse because the author knew it wasn't nice.

r ranson wrote:Today I shall add --- and ---- to the naughty word list (as soon as I finish writing this post).  

Ha ha I can't even quote your posted acronyms!

When sharing something that is ones experience or opinion, what is the appropriate qualifying remark? Or...

Can we assume that if we post something on permies that we have the best of intentions and do not need a qualifier? Or...

Are the staff able to discern whether I really mean to qualify this as my opinion or if it is more like the qualifier of "please don't be offended, but...I'm fixin' to offend you"

My life is made up of opinions and I try to be very careful on my wording. I do spell out terms like "in my opinion" or "my view is" because I deplore acronyms and I do want folks to understand "mileage may vary".

If you are only banning the acronyms, I am in full support.

Josh Hoffman wrote:
If you are only banning the acronyms, I am in full support.

It is indeed the acronyms.

Context is everything, sometimes we just need to clarify. :)

Timothy Norton wrote:

Josh Hoffman wrote:
If you are only banning the acronyms, I am in full support.

It is indeed the acronyms.

Context is everything, sometimes we just need to clarify. :)

I like it. Posting helpful replies and starting helpful threads indeed warrants the time taken to not use acronyms. Thank you for the clarification. I appreciate all the effort it takes to make this a great site.

Funny how this did end up being about context.....

Josh Hoffman wrote:...My life is made up of opinions and I try to be very careful on my wording. I do spell out terms like "in my opinion" or "my view is" because I deplore acronyms and I do want folks to understand "mileage may vary".

In general, I think that so long as staff see lots of "I" statements, and that they read as "nice", we assume the person is speaking from their own point of view, and the 'opinion' word isn't necessary. If you feel it is, then likely you're discussing something very controversial, so being extra careful to give personal examples, seems like a good idea.

I try to focus on what I think I should do, and not imply it will be the same for others. Keeping permies a kind and supportive place takes a lot of work from a lot of volunteers.  As a pollinator, we not only want you to write kindly, we want you to report it if you see unkind writing. That means that you've got skin in the game of keeping permies the nicest social media site on the interwebs.

Sharing opinions and expirence are wonderful. Most people do this naturally and kindly.

However, using "it's my opinion " at the end of a post as an excuse to be rude isn't very nice.  

I hesitated to add those two to the naughty list as they are excellent indicators when moderating as to who is escalating the conflict.  I see that at the end of the post, and it makes moderating so much easier.

This all makes very good sense to me. The nuances of internet communication take a lot careful thought. I appreciate what you all do.

This "be nice" rule has changed how I write any and all messages ever.

Before Permies: I would write what I thought, not considering what the thoughts sound like outside my mind.
After Permies:    I write what I think, then I delete all things that might come across badly, and I add extra context to what is left.

It has been a beautiful thing. I am more sure now of being understood as I meant to be, since I am not expecting anyone to read my mind. I feel more satisfied with my communications of all kinds--text messages, e-mails, blog comments, posts...and I expect I will get better as I keep practicing!

Nice means accepting people for who they are, not judging a book by its cover, accepting differences, allowing people to think outside the box, respecting everyone, ...  add your own feelings here.

The best part of the 'be nice' rule here is how it's encouraged me to state my experiences instead of telling people they're wrong, even in other venues! It makes me a better interlocutor.

Jay Angler wrote:Nice means accepting people for who they are

I think if someone is flying a particular flag (looking for like minds) it's nice to ignore it if you're not interested in that shade of purple (or green :D ). You don't have to say anything at all.

Vegan? Pagan? Tradwife? Tree dweller? It's all OK.

I am a lot of things that are more distinct from others. I am vegan, I am Christian, I am seeking others into growing things together on good land with adequate water for sustainable living becoming separate from civilization. I need to bring things as these up for connection.

Exactly Fred! Someone else may be carnivore, pagan and based in an urban flat, but we all get together here on permies, and agree to disagree!
If it is appropriate to mention your views without implying someone else is wrong that's fine, but if it isn't relevant move on to another topic. Any discussion belongs in cider press.

Nancy Reading wrote:Exactly Fred! Someone else may be carnivore, pagan and based in an urban flat, but we all get together here on permies, and agree to disagree!
If it is appropriate to mention your views without implying someone else is wrong that's fine, but if it isn't relevant move on to another topic. Any discussion belongs in cider press.

Nice ideal.  But in the end censorship here is heavier than that.  But in the end he who pays, says.  Don't like it go somewhere else.  I have been primary moderator for enough groups to know that.  I know how much work it is to do on a small scale let alone at this scale.  I honor the work even when I disagree.

Just a reminder that 'Be Nice' protects everyone. If it's possible for someone to read a thing you wrote and experience hurt feelings of any shape, you've broken the rules.

I heard today that there is no place upon signing up that shows the rule of participating on this forum.  

So I had a look and found this.

r ranson wrote:I heard today that there is no place upon signing up that shows the rule of participating on this forum.  

So I had a look and found this.

If you heard that on these forums, and if you direct me to them saying that, i will gladly lock that account.

paul wheaton wrote:

r ranson wrote:I heard today that there is no place upon signing up that shows the rule of participating on this forum.  

So I had a look and found this.

If you heard that on these forums, and if you direct me to them saying that, i will gladly lock that account.

So right. Account locked.

I won't say that I am perfect, but the ability to stay cordial even in disagreements has immensely helped my ability to learn and develop deeper relationships. I appreciate that Permies tasks us to communicate through a platform of kindness.  

If there is something one disagrees with, the instinct is to challenge it.

Unfortunately, this has the opposite result of what the challanger wants.  
. It bumps the thread so even more people can see it.  
. It gives credibility to the words that the challenger didn't like.  If it was nonsense, it wouldn't need challenging. True nonsense is ignored (psychology of social media)
. It increases googlelove (seo) for that thread
. and increases other elements here on permies which mean more people will see the stuff you disagree with.
. It detracts from better topics
. Too often, taking what from some points of view is troll bait, makes the challenger look like a troll and bully.  When this happens, people are less likely to listen to them.
. It's extremely easy to break the Be Nice rule when challenging (from your perspective) wooly thinking.
. It's basically wasting time and energy being angry at (from your view) bad guys instead of putting that time and energy into building a better world and better quality content.

An alternative we know works
. Use the Ignore button on those threads that press your buttons.
. Reply to or create better quality threads with words worth listening to.
. Heck. Bump meaningless drivel or game threads works too (the would you rather game is especially good for this)
. Make the game to drive the unliked thread to the bottom of the recent list as quickly as possible, so fewer people see it.  
. While doing this, promote the topics you love.  This has a massive influence for the future of permies and our community,  far more than trying to "correct" what one disagrees with.

A lot of times, the only way to win mind games is not to play it.