Emily Smith

Jay Angler wrote:It sounds like you've got several issues. I don't know your position, but in mine, I would build a whole new coop and run as far from the existing one as practical, and start new birds there.

I would decide whether to let the old birds die naturally, or continue where they are, based on my observations (I *don't* consider "natural death" to always be nicer than "helping them humanely" because chickens will hide pain to protect themselves. It's a fine line and based very much on the situation.) However, once the old coop/run was empty, I would clean it thoroughly and re-seed the run area and use it for non-chicken uses for as long as I could, aiming for a minimum of 3 years, preferably 5 years. I'm always looking for deer protected planting areas, so I'm sure I'd make it productive somehow.

After that period, having two areas to rotate birds through is something I always like to have. I don't consider it a "waste of space" but rather important back-up infrastructure in case of any sort of disaster, or just to let an area of soil "rest".

I hope your research on choices for new breeds goes well. I'm sure fellow permies will help by describing their experiences. I certainly have met many different breeds over the years, but that has just made me aware that different breeds do better or worse based on many factors including but not limited to, climate, infrastructure, likely predators, etc.

Short answer: I would avoid introducing any new birds to the same area with the old birds or even shortly after the old birds are gone. Chickens peck and dig, and many things live in the soil for long periods.

Well, I have 1/2 acre for backyard, garden, chickens, so the farthest I can get a new coop is maybe 100 feet. I guess uphill is better than down? I don't really have the capital to even build a new coop right now, either.  And we have dogs, so the chickens and garden have to be sectioned off from where the dogs can be.

Anne Miller wrote:Sorry you are still having more deaths, is this due to the hepatitis?

No, this one was lymphoma. The final report basically said that I should consider my entire flock exposed to Marek's and make sure any incoming birds are vaccinated against it, preferably at hatch.

Timothy Norton wrote:I'm not exactly sure if my interpretation is correct but it may be more genetics than any other factors that might influence the birds health. The breed Golden Comets has some reports of being susceptible to neoplasia floating around the interwebs. Perhaps a different breed of chicken or at least different line of genetics might be something to consider?

This is definitely a factor, at least. In 2023, I got 12 Golden Comets and 12 Black Australorps from our local feed store, two weeks apart.  They use Mt. Healthy Hatcheries for all their chicks, which does vaccinate against Marek's, as far as I know.  I've also heard GCs really aren't as healthy -- after I bought them! But I expected the BAs to do better. They seem to be dying at about the same rate. Although I had some 2020 BAs, too, so it's possible the older ones succumbed. I don't band them, and unlike my son, I really can't tell them apart.

The one that died of hepatitis was a BA, and the one that died of lymphoma was a GC.  I'll need to replenish the flock, and I'm not sure yet how to go about that.

Basically every other Friday this month, I’ve lost one. No symptoms. The mid-October one had the following report:


“At necropsy the bird is in acceptable postmortem condition, thin body condition (BCS 2/5). There is a palpable fluid wave in the coelom. a moderate amount of ascites is present internally. The peritoneum is thickened and opaque. The left liver lobe has a slightly mottled appearance. The mesentery is thickened, tan, with multifocal to coalescing tan nodules of varying sizes. The intestinal walls are thickened. There are nodules around the pancreas. The ovary appears enlarged and neoplastic with tan nodules of varying sizes.
Ddx: Neoplasia (lymphoma vs adenocarcinoma vs other)”


Today’s I just buried. Same breed and age (2 1/2 years, Golden Comets).  I feed Faithway laying pellets.

Should I increase their forage? Switch feeds? I haven’t lost so many so steadily before. I’m not doing anything different from what I’ve always done, but I feel like it’s something I’m doing/not doing.

Update: It's not Avian Flu.

It says final diagnosis: hepatitis (bacterial: acineto. baumanii) with a ruptured gall bladder.
AI RRT-PCR was negative.
MG PCR was negative.
MS PRCR was positive.

So now I need to research that and see what I can do to help the rest of the flock.

Jay Angler wrote:

Emily Smith wrote:The most recently sick hen died, and I took her to the state poultry lab today.  So I’m just waiting now.

My fingers are crossed that you figure out what the problem is and are able to help keep your remaining birds healthy.

We can only do what we can do, and it sounds like you've done that, so I also hope you don't let this discourage you.

The birds sound too old for it to be a coccidiosis problem unless they somehow got a sudden heavy exposure? Another remote possibility is some other poisoning. I know that galvanization contains lead as an example.

Thanks! I'm hoping so too.


One thing that popped up was algae poisoning. We use plastic 5-gallon waterers, so no lead, but I don't clean them as regularly as I should, and algae does build up.

Another forum always says my coop is too small, so maybe over crowding is weakening them?  But it's just a roosting and laying spot, and there's plenty of space in between birds when they roost at night. Especially now. I spaced the bars out horizontally a bit more after cleaning, too.  Coop is 80 sqft. Run is 625 sqft for 32 birds originally, now down to 27 for 705 total daytime sqft.  I've always read 10 sqft minimum per bird for wandering, scratching, etc.

So I changed the bedding, cleaned the nest boxes and roosting bars, oiled the roosting bars, cleaned the feed pans.

I used the PoultryDVM symptom checker, and avian flu didn’t come back as even a low possibility.  

The most recently sick hen died, and I took her to the state poultry lab today.  So I’m just waiting now.

I will say she, like the one right before her, died in a possible Marek’s pose.

Thanks, everyone, for the responses!  I'll try to address key points below.

Christopher Weeks wrote:I wouldn't involve the authorities because I want to breed the survivors. The authorities have a different set of priorities.

This is my fear, though I haven't graduated to breeding my birds, so I don't know if it matters if it is Avian Flu and I have survivors.
I don't want to cause an issue or spread a disease, but I also don't want to take unnecessarily drastic measures. I'm not opposed to drastic measures if they're completely necessary. But that's what I can't figure out. I'm afraid to even call the state hotline to ask questions.  I will add that last month, there was a confirmed case in a backyard flock two counties over.

I can certainly clean, but I have a 625 sq.ft. mulched run and use the deep litter method in my hoop coop.  I'm not sure how to clean that apart from taking the bedding down to dirt and putting in fresh shavings, and then cleaning the roosting bars and nest boxes. I do have DE. The run is covered, for whatever it's worth.



The two that died were 2-5 years old. One was definitely 2. The other could have been 2 or 5; I have the same breed from a 2020 flock and a 2023 flock.  
I have another one that's acting sick. Not roosting, not vying for food, losing weight, and today falling side ways. We separated her, and she'll eat on her own. I gave her scrambled eggs.  I haven't checked her for bumblefoot yet, but I didn't think that affected their eating habits. Give the symptoms listed below, it's not sounding good.

I have only processed one bird about 8 years ago, and not for a necropsy. So advice there would be helpful. Otherwise, the closest state poultry lab is 90 minutes away from me and not open on the weekends.

I lost two birds in a week. They just died. No weight loss or funny behavior except not roosting. I buried them, but if another one goes, I plan to take her to the state poultry lab for a necropsy. How fast does it go through your flock, if that’s even what it was?

Another market vendor suggested I go ahead and call the avian flu hotline, but I’m kind of afraid they’ll just take my whole flock.

Is there anything besides ACV that’s good for boosting their immunity?

Should I just take the next one down to the poultry lab? If it's bird flu, won't they kill my entire flock? It's not a big flock, but I still don't want to lose them. I'm also not sure if the state will care about local zoning laws, which my chickens technically violate.  I'm in formerly rural, turning suburban county and live in a neighborhood, fwiw.  We had a case confirmed this month just a few counties over.

I'm also curious about egg withholding; I was selling them but stopped when I lost two in one week.

Any experience or wisdom is appreciated!

Trace Oswald wrote:Common comfrey spreads.  Bocking 4 and 14, which are the ones you most often see for sale, don't spread.  The seeds are sterile so they get bigger around and you can propagate them easily by taking a cutting of a root and planting it somewhere else.  I personally wouldn't plant common comfrey because it's too hard to contain, but I have hundreds of bocking 4 comfrey plants.  Comfrey is certainly one of the best plants if it grows well in your area.  I have sent plants to people nearly everywhere and the only people that  seem to have any issues with it growing are in very hot, dry climates.  I don't know if that would apply to you or not.

Hot and humid.  Real temperature tops out in upper 90s, but heat index can be in low 100s.  Nearly daily pop up storms then random drought.