chris pelfron

Ok by now more of the uneaten grasses have seeded out and that has given me more to work with.

Current theory is that the stuff the cows don't like is "bromus diandrus roth" AKA "ripgut brome" which when young can look very much like a cereal (per wikipedia) and grows well under "heavy thatch and oak canopies" (per the Field Guide for Common California Rangeland and Pasture Plants). Possibly a different brome.

So the cows are very happy with young wild oats and some kind of ryegrass growing in the sun near the brome. The young brome looks like young cereal, grows well in the shade, but it's different and they don't like it. Now that it's seeded out it's bordering on dangerous but they leave it alone anyway.

I have attached some samples my kids and I collected today. My theory is that sample 493 grows up into sample 999 but before that seedhead showed it looked like a wild oat to my undiscerning eye.

The main flaw in this theory is that the Rangeland guide says that young bromus diandrus is palatable to cows. So maybe I've got that identification wrong. But either way it's probably just a different species under the trees.

Thanks folks. I will knuckle down with the grass identification and really try to figure out if that's a different species under the trees.

This was grazing at about 20,000 lbs per acre.

At our property in Sonoma County, CA we are in the first season of a serious rotational grazing plan. Since getting back on grass in late January we have been moving our small herd every day. Herd is composed of some black Angus and Highland crosses.

One thing we have noticed in our oak savannah ecosystem: the cows avoid the lush green grass that grows directly under the Coastal Live Oaks. We expected them to go nuts for it but they really don't touch it.

I'm not positive of the grass species involved, I think it's mostly the non-native wild rye that dominates the hillsides here. But the species under the trees is not different. Just greener. To my human palate it tastes the same as the other grass!

My best guess is that the oak leaves change the acidity of the grass? Maybe the leaf mould underlying the grass? It seems like a shame that they won't eat it. We've noticed this phenomenon also on the neighbors property. Any ideas about the origin and what we can do to work with nature here? We're thinking about planting some kind of shade-loving berry or other perennial directly under the oaks if the grass isn't going to get used.

S Bengi wrote:
...

Here is my pasture list too, unfortunately it might not be optimize for your climate  

The main thing to remember is that you want 4 types of plants 1.N-fixers, 2.Drymass, 3.Pest control/medicine, 4.Aerating roots
I would plant 7-12 plants in each category.

mustard
burdock
alfalfa
lamb's quarter
fava bean
sweet clover
lupine
landino clover
buckwheat
hairy vetch
daikon
black-eyed peas
comfrey
sun flower
yarrow
borage
chamomile
dandelion
turnip
bee balm
lavender
mullein
pea (pisum arvitiuse)
stinging nettle
chard
maximillian sunflower
sorghum

Hi I saw this post in doing a search for "hairy vetch". I was wondering if you ever had problems with cows eating the hairy vetch and getting sick.

I have it as part of an 8-species cover crop mix I sourced online. It seems great for a winter cover. But there is a lot of ag-department scare talk online about toxicity.

Seems like if its part of a diverse cover other people have put cows on it without problems but is that too risky? I haven't planted yet (because of California rainfall timing) but this week would be the time.

You can also find scare stories about cows and clover! and sorghum. But again, if it's diverse and I'm doing fast rotation and they're not lingering on one species as a food source...  

Gotcha, and it sounds like good advice for enquiries on your turf but I'm thinking less about a criminal action than a bureaucratic one here: if you fail to meet a checklist and your cert gets pulled for a farmers market, it can mean a significant loss of income for you the farmer. When you show up at the market you're on their territory.

I've been researching FSMA stuff and I wanted to bump this thread... has anyone had any actual run-ins with federal inspection? I've heard some FUD from other farmers here in California and I am planning a barn so I wanted to avoid any FSMA pitfalls since I am just in planning stage.

For instance I have heard scary stories like "FSMA means even small farmers need a completely enclosed building to wash produce" But I don't see that in the law, except for sprouts. One thing I do see is that even small farmers must do water quality tests and have a toilet and running water hand-washing station for workers at the produce picking/packing site, which might be a tough one.

BUT the exemption for farms that sell more than 50% of value to end users seems like a healthy loophole for most people on this forum: end user is the home consumer OR a local restaurant. However it's unclear to me from the fed site whether this "qualified exemption" is automatic or if you have to apply for it. So if anyone has any experience w/ FSMA now that we're a few years on and the rolling timelines for compliance are starting to hit please chime in.

I am looking forward to processing my first steer sometime soon... it's a 50/50 Wagu/Highland that's lived on grass on the same hills its whole life. I may be biased but I think it's going to be an excellent beef!

When I look at some guides for farms and beef buyers I often see ballpark 50% of the meat ending up as ground beef.

My understanding is that most of the chuck and round end up as ground.

I'm looking for a framework where I end up with more distinct cuts and less ground. I know the "lesser" cuts are tougher and fattier but I am OK with that... It's up to me to convince my takers that this grass-fed cow is worth long-cooking and experimenting with. Additionally this grass-fed beef fat is a prize in its own right. I am fine with seeing more fat on finished cuts since I know how to cook with that.

My question is... is there a place I can research alternate cutting, or are there different (possibly archaic) cutting schemes? Presumably when a farmer butchered a steer 500 years ago they weren't putting 50% of the finished edible product in the grinder.

Hi I found this thread via search and I wonder if you or anyone found a good book about modern grazing tactics specifically in California.

I have read _All Flesh is Grass_ ... a wonderful book but the author is in Ohio and most of the practical examples relate to rainy-summer climates.

Just started _The Art and Science of Grazing_ ... again looks great but there's a big disclaimer in Chapter 1 that the book pertains more to climates that have humidity and  summer rain.

Would love to here if there's a book out there relating "modern" grazing... (constantly moving lightweight electric fence, intensive management, grassland plant species awareness) in the climate pattern of California where rain stops May-November (in good years.)

I am working with a small herd in Sonoma County. Most conventional ranching operations start bringing in hay quite soon. Some rotational grazers manage to stay on grass close to year round but a lot depends on the microclimate and soil and water, etc. Would like to know if there's a reference that tries to systematize it.

Hi I was wondering if there is any update on this product. I am interested in getting one of these for simple outdoor cooking but reading more about at the manufacturer site it says that you shouldn't ever get it wet or have it come too close to a flame (https://bakingstone.com/faq/) That seems a little too tempermental for the primitive operation I'm envisioning. Basically I'm looking to pile some bricks up next to my firepit and build a crude proof of concept oven for my first attempt.

But if it's the only really good flat baking stone I should just suck it up and put a metal layer underneath it and baby it like they say.