Russ Rob

Horvath Tech Data CDI Circuits Build Project

Patent 3980053 Hydrogen generator was studied by me in great depth, quite a while back in time. I had way earlier, typed out a 2 page corrections of minor errors and items involved , not necessary to add to car engine to run on hydrogen fuel . Fuel upon demand, no gaseous storage. Things were printed as too expensive or particular design manufacturing, to detour others from duplicating the system. I was already aware of these common inclusions in a $5000 Patent. This letter is to inform you of my recent solution to a section of Patent data PROBLEM that was missed by me earlier, as wrong on purpose AND DESIGNED IN,,, the Patent literature. I am presently building the Horvath power supply and water cell tank for duplication, as an average individual would do it without the up above parts/ designs not necessary, but including all of the important EFFICIENCY IMPROVEMENTS as Horvath did. This project was on my mind for years, and quite similar to a beefed up Capacitor Discharge Ignition circuit, as used for powering an improved efficiency Electrolysis cell. He also took data from previous Patents of theirs and incorporated them in his design. It's really the amount of fuel generated, as important, not the efficiency of a power supply!

Here we go:-- A pulse energy into coil has a reverse flow back. The secondary side coil of a transformer follows the primary method the same, except for a ratio change of turns. There can be 60cycles or 20,000 cycles frequency or higher. In general, iron lamination sheets are used for lower frequency range, while Ferrite is on high frequency. As frequency increases, less turns are necessary on primary side. It makes it easier to wind on core. The Patent was correct in that on + off time is required for cell plates, as about/around 50% duty cycle, on the SECONDARY side transformer. This allows the stuck polarized ions to release and rise up in the solution. Horvath said to use iron laminations for TR2, as the secondary side receives what's called Positive Critical wave form as seen on Scope.( High frequency used on low frequency type core.) This was to get a DC pulse for making Hydrogen gas and WITHOUT A Rectifier which would cause loss of 40-70 Watts heat loss, reducing efficiency, the rectifier forward volts drop loss times the current 200amps. This inclusion in Patent was INTENTIONAL TO DETOUR others from duplicating the design as printed. NOT POSSIBLE to get sufficient Inductance in 100-300 microhenry range, at LOW turns, as necessary with the associated capacitor, on iron laminations!!! Ferrite must be used for way higher inductance on low number to turns to be able to get 10:1 ratio for 22A going to 200 A, with heavy battery cable low turns secondary side of transformer.
All you have to do is put fast recovery high frequency diodes/ rectifier on primary side to stop the reverse wave form, on both sides!

The secondary side sees the same thing!!! I have heatsink with flat pack diodes in parallel to increase current rating with balancing resistors .

My rectangle aquarium tank was made with 3/8" thick plates, expecting 6lbs pressure. Presently ordering #6 red cable and gauges. The separate plastic water safety container will have pop off rubber plug, microswitch shuts off oscillator capacitor ground connection, while the flashback arrestor is hand made with brass tube and brass wool, and SS screens. KOH is hard to find. Water solution is done by weight of water + chemical together, as 25% and 75% for total weight solution together.

Recent response came back back from GROKAI.COM assures I was right about how to get secondary side on + off DC properly for water cell with only diode on primary side of transformer TR2. Horvath Patent 3980053 is available to read on line.

Horvath Patents Allowed Engine To Run On Water Improved Electrolysis Efficiency


Horvath Math for designing circuit for hydrogen generator. requires PULSE PEAK input 900w  into primary for 22A 2uf capacitor discharges at 10khz. Use old style scientific calculator for the formulas. I just went through it.  Secondary of TR2 has output diode, so as there being an on + off time for release of stuck ions from plates. I have flat nickel coated plates with flutes, knurled, with N + S magnets on back side. 3/8" acrylic plastic box, 400mesh nylon screen. The capacitor is 2uf as induction stove range type polypropylene capacitor high frequency type. .P type Mosfet paralleled as used for high side switching direct to spark plug, or N channel for regular use as applied to water cell. POH is 25% solution by weight,  meaning gallon is from both together same time -not gallon input water. .22 pulse amps becomes 200 amps pulse to plates. fast recovery heavy amp rectifier, or Horvath just used 3/4" iron laminations block with no diode, to get the critical positive wave out. AS used on input high frequency . China sells open board 1000 watts inverter with option of 330v terminals (to get about 600watts necessary) Can wind your own 2 transformers TR1 + TR, and can build your own switching inverter. L primary = C / I squared divided by E squared.  I = E X square root C / L.   Magnet wire as gauge # circular mills = 750 X I X duty cycle from wires chart. 10khz, .09joules each, 22A peak pulses, 371uh primary, 900w, 2uf, #16 #18 gauge primary, 2gauge secondary, Ratio 10:1 turns, duty cycle secondary .5 , water cell receives 450 Watts. Peak amps or watts is not average watts over the period time, .etc.

Grok  AI

What is average power in watts drawn from input 12v battery required for 900 PEAK pulse watts CDI capacitor into transformer with secondary diode and 50% on time only? Does this assume 450 watts average power to load

To determine the average power drawn from a 12 V battery to supply a CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) system delivering 900 W peak pulse power into a transformer’s primary, with a 50% duty cycle (50% on-time) and a diode on the secondary, and to confirm if this results in 450 W average power to the load, let’s analyze step-by-step.
Key Parameters:

   Peak pulse power: 900 W into the primary during the on-time.
   Duty cycle: 50% (0.5), meaning the power is delivered for half the cycle.
   Battery voltage: 12 V (DC).
   Secondary side: Has a diode, delivering power to the load.
   Question: What is the average power drawn from the battery, and does this setup imply 450 W average power to the load?

Step-by-Step Analysis:
1. Average Power to the Load:

   The primary side delivers 900 W peak power during the 50% on-time. For a pulse transformer, the instantaneous power delivered to the primary is transferred to the secondary (assuming an ideal transformer with no losses).
   The average power delivered to the load on the secondary side is:
   Pavg, load=Ppeak×D=900×0.5=450 W.
   Pavg, load​=Ppeak​×D=900×0.5=450W.
   This confirms that, in an ideal system, the average power delivered to the load is indeed 450 W. The presence of the diode ensures unidirectional current to the load during the on-time, consistent with the 50% duty cycle.

2. Average Power Drawn from the Battery:

   In an ideal system (100% efficiency), the average power drawn from the battery equals the average power delivered to the load, as energy is conserved. Thus:
   Pavg, input=Pavg, load=450 W.
   Pavg, input​=Pavg, load​=450W.
   The CDI system stores energy in a capacitor during the off-time and discharges it into the primary during the on-time to achieve the 900 W peak power. The battery supplies a steady average power to charge the capacitor over the full cycle.

3. Average Current from the 12 V Battery:

   The average power drawn from the battery is:
   Pavg, input=V×Iavg.
   Pavg, input​=V×Iavg​.
   Given V=12 VV=12V and Pavg, input=450 WPavg, input​=450W, the average current is:
   Iavg=Pavg, inputV=45012=37.5 A.
   Iavg​=VPavg, input​​=12450​=37.5A.
   Thus, the battery supplies an average current of 37.5 A to provide 450 W average power, which supports the 900 W peak power during the 50% on-time.

4. Real-World Considerations:

   Real CDI systems have losses due to:
       Transformer inefficiencies (core losses, winding resistance).
       Diode forward voltage drop (typically 0.7–1 V for a standard diode, reducing output power).
       Capacitor charging/discharging inefficiencies.
       Switching losses in the CDI circuit.
   Assuming a typical efficiency of 80% (a reasonable estimate for CDI systems), the input power required to deliver 450 W to the load is:
   Pavg, input=Pavg, loadη=4500.8=562.5 W.
   Pavg, input​=ηPavg, load​​=0.8450​=562.5W.
   The average current from the 12 V battery becomes:
   Iavg=562.512≈46.9 A.
   Iavg​=12562.5​≈46.9A.
   The average power drawn from the battery is thus approximately 562.5 W with 80% efficiency.

5. Answering the Questions:

   Average power drawn from the 12 V battery:
       Ideal case (100% efficiency): 450 W.
       Realistic case (80% efficiency): ~562.5 W.
   Does this assume 450 W average power to the load?:
       Yes, the setup with 900 W peak power and a 50% duty cycle inherently results in 450 W average power to the load in an ideal system, as calculated (900×0.5=450 W900×0.5=450W). This is consistent with the transformer transferring 900 W peak power during the on-time, averaging to 450 W over the full cycle.

Final Answer:

   The average power drawn from the 12 V battery is 450 W in an ideal system, or approximately 562.5 W with 80% efficiency (requiring ~46.9 A average current).
   Yes, this setup assumes 450 W average power delivered to the load, as the 900 W peak power with a 50% duty cycle naturally results in 450 W average power in an ideal transformer syste

Alexander Patent Increased Current Output Modified Alternator Dual Wires Slot


You can do the same thing with the Briggs 8hp or larger riding mower engine. The plastic ring alternator under flywheel has many poles, and can be wrapped with dual wires same time like the Alexander patent. Wind Over + under, over + under. The poles make AC current. The ring is stationary and the 12 magnets rotate around it. All the alternator needs is to be rotated by crankshaft. Also, the there are two sizes of MAGNETS. get the flywheel such as 16hp type that has the larger magnets ,- there is LESS space between magnets to differentiate between 2 types. See photos on Ebay used parts. The ring gear has to be matched. Aluminum non mag gear goes with plastic SMALL gear on starter. Steel ring gear on flywheel goes with steel SMALL gear on starter. Got it? You can also CHANGE the small type starter gear to match. Ratio of 2  magnet wires about 3:1 size diameter. See wires chart.  The standard Briggs dual alternators type plastic ring, uses one line to charge battery half wave DC. , + other line runs the mower headlights on AC. There are many types of standard Briggs alternators and interchangeable. ( I doubt the Briggs company knew about the Alexander Patent when designing their dual wires Alternator type. ) Their dual AC type has 1 black wire and one red wire with bulge, as the diode. It's NOT black ground! The dual alternators type has the opposite 2 wires grounded UNDER ring to chassis top.
Look behind starter motor to see TYPE of alternator , as per Briggs chart PRINTED OUT copy, as the wires hanging down, as to number, color, color and shape of end connector. That's how it's done.
Used circular ring is about $15 to modify, or get whole engine to take upper section apart after removing flywheel.

Added Data ,--  The Briggs dual type alternators windings on same circular ring , is (2)  one halves of circle, as wound. (Not wound all the way around) The design can be changed!!  Can measure existing wires on ring with Vernier Caliper for exactness. Count the turns when unwinding from poles and mark it down. Would be nice to see Briggs engine creating excess power with duplication of Alexander US Patent.

The high wattage CDI power supply, 2nd transformer Tr2 as inside the water cell, had no rectifier on secondary side output wanted. The waste heat was not desired by use of a rectifier as it was running on 200amps  current. Energy was then conserved, and Tr2 transformer had been changed to iron laminations instead of Ferrite material normally for high frequency. It's use allowed for what is expressed as a positive + pulse output as DC , due to the formation of a degenerated, type, of Critical Positive Wave , as seen on oscilloscope. Brilliant!. Taken all together, the electronic circuit was successful, and 2nd similar CDI Patent was issued as final output high voltage type, and 3rd Horvath Patent issued using Radiation Magnetron tube in water cell. That one was shown in the Ford Fairlane V8 engine, back in those days.

Just more tech data.-  US Patent 3980053 contains parts list I went over carefully. There are a few proofreading mistakes and a couple parts in parts list were wrong. The Author didn't want the unit duplicated, so as some electronic parts were changed. The main UJT oscillator should be R1 Pot 25Kohm , capacitor as .006uf, R2 as 100ohm. This will give proper frequencies for operation of electrolysis circuit at 10khtz. The SCR switch is old style , mostly discontinued, and would be replaced by MOSFET on heat sink. Fast repeating DC pulses to cell is way better than straight DC for gases evolution of Hydrogen.Time is there for stuck ions to release, making faster operation. Any one interested should study the online Patent. Final output of 30volts + 200 pulse amps is sufficient for making free fuel. The approx 40 amp battery draw at 12v is replaced by standard alternator. Beefed up 450 Watts , instead of low watts CDI for an ignition coil.The magnetic field pulses also increases efficiency. Potassium Hydroxide as electrolyte allows passage of heavy current to water cell. I may replicate this also, as side project, as used at LOWERED output level, to fire just single spark plug as no separate cell, in engine.

(By the way, Archie Blue, engineer from new Zealand with Patent, also ran 2   4cyl cars on water using his special vertical cell of staggerd, perforated discs and side electrodes. Small air pimp input from cell bottom, bubbled upward, allowed the neutral air to CLEAN SWEEP the stuck ions from the thin aluminum discs. Improved Hydrogen Gas Generator efficiency. Seek and ye shall find.)

The Nuclear fusion conversion conversation in video was wrong. That's not what it was . Just greatly improved Radiolysis of water to hydrogen + oxygen gas fuel method #3. . The#1 and #2  low + high volts designs were not shown.

Horvath had 3 established Patents on high efficiency made hydrogen gas electrical circuits. One was Magnetron glass radiation tube in water cell center. The other two were low volts out and high volts out to water cell . Two were VERY similar to your well known CDI that fires the ignition coil primary side. He beefed it up for 450Watts for the cell, while the alternator recharges battery , about 40 amps. He added efficiency measures to cell such as magnetic field and pulse flowing ions. 200A pulses to electrolysis cell at 30v DC. About 45% duty cycle cell. Designed in high frequency put to low frequency iron laminations core transformer TR2 , so as no diode needed, - called positive Critical  Wave Form. READ the Patent  on line and print it out for study later. Things were added not necessary so as to discourage others from duplication such as special machined carburetor, and separation screens for gases. The old style SCR switch is now replaced with MOSFET. The Inverter transistors as Bipolar type is replaced with Mosfet. The type Inverter is now changed to the "IC driven " type for on+ off switching of current 50% duty cycle. The oscillator frequency is adjustable which gives the wattage wanted. Three cars were converted to water, 6yl, and( 2) 4cyl engines. Hydrogen gas is the fuel of our future . Read # 3980053   1976     . Old electrical parts list was included.  A single barrel Carter carb can have a spud in jet on side at venturi point for hose connection.  (Similar to the old VW engine conversions in 1970's to propane.) Saw out an aluminum plate adapter for intake manifold mount of carb. The expensive Impco apparatus is not needed.
P.S. -  The time of Patents as 17 years has run out, and is in now what's called public domain!

Electrical Self Grounding Improved Health

Yes, I use grounding occasionally. Reduces arthritis pain, increases breathing, oxygen flow transfer, I run about 2.8volts. Any cords on, in room brings body 7-20 volts. I use copper pipe handles at couch, floor copper thin foil at computer, and blue wrist strap near bed. You have to remove coil cable and 1/2 wrist snap as it contains million ohms resistor. Solder end wire to other 1/2 snap. Other end 1/2" copper pipe in ground outside house. I also had right angle STEEL bracket on shoe heel connected to wrist strap on lower leg with locking wire connector, and touching floor plate. Walking kept breaking bracket. Don't buy expensive kits. Just put it together yourself with reel #16 gauge copper wire , black insulated, stranded type. Saw pipe in 2 2foot pieces and hammer into ground outside window. Cheap Multimeter on ac setting, 20volts. Check it out yourself on hands.

Re: Horvath Patents Allowed Engine To Run On Water Improved Electrolysis Efficiency

The Engineer Horvath had 3 related Patents for hydrogen from water auto conversions. Final cell as low voltage , another at high voltage with same instilled circuit, and the more elaborate water cell with central radiation Magnetron tube.Photos do not tell which type was displayed.  I studied the low volts model and typed out page of proof reading errors not caught .Patents  designs included obvious non essential parts to deter people from replication, - such as cast special carburetor, large diameter cell, interior - rather than external transformer.
Outer box strong magnets on sides of narrow cell would suffice to speed ions . I had 2 steel plates knurled rough with matching flutes nickel plated at machine shop.. They would face each other in narrow gap. High temp gray PVC plates measured for cell + removable cover. Source for free distilled water would still be needed.

S1R9A9M9 18HP Briggs riding mower engine ran on water( 2008)

I rebuilt another S1R electromagnet, as to be able to reduce input current from 4 A to 1.5A. Has to do with doubling number turns so as the magnetic field is same with 1/2 current. 39 turns now for 1.5 amp draw. Direct proportion of turns to field. Remember that we are using the power that would be associated from Briggs alternator as 4A + 11 A for max 15A capability at idle speed.

My other (same) S1R coil was put inside my NEW much larger vacuum chamber with many pin terminals , so as can have various connections for various purposes. The Briggs is factory set timing, so as the VARIED power resistor with coil allows for varying magnetic field for tests. The 60 cycle inverter box as pure sine wave will be used with push button single pulse , and then later with regular on time running of power supply. The 7A Peak pulse will be read on the ground return side to Inverter DC with VOLTS SCOPE fast reading over 1 ohm metal resistor. 7 volts read is 7 pulse amps. E / R = I . Currently finishing up the 6" Carlon larger box and smaller 4" box. Both include the Tesla magnetic spark gap. I am assuming release of (2) radiant energies inside Vacuum box not escaping into Ambient air and following the wiring and inductors to spark plug. High V enters exact at cathode of diode in-between inductors. I really like the heatsink/fan assembly being sold as obsolete from old style computers. The dell unit is way cheaper than purchasing separate sink + 12v fan. Hole drilled in center for mounting MOSFET pass transistor. Complete cheap modules available for preset frequency + duty cycle control. Inverter is 220 v with separate adjustable module for reducing AC to about 130v AC. Then full wave rectifier. Has 2 protections for power input inverter using 15kv diodes bank with vertical blowing fan, and no battery ground hooked to engine metal. (Starter only) I have choice of + or minus high volts at full level. I also installed new water delivery system as upper tank with CERAMIC type TINY TYPE bubbler with DC air pump to get Nitrogen embedded water, and neodymium magnets along length of water hose to carb. (polarized water separates easier) Alum square tube holds strong magnets in place with interior tubing.

The original 60 turns coil test in Georgia was the prerequisite for the S1R coils. No photo, The circuit showed that ignition cable could be INFLUENCED by external magnetic field. The S1R coils served several purposes. Nathren just wanted a cheap method of doing it. He said the magnetic field quit only when plug fired. 2 ways - ignition pulse intercepts diode in Magic Relay shutting off low volts, and ignition volts causes interference in S1r coils other low volts side.

Vacuum boxes contain S1r coils, magnetic gap, 2 inductors and diodes. A second spark gap in series is required to keep spark plug working with water solution.

Push button for initial test of moving piston. Self-running engine requires revolving, so as there is a FAST much-lowered compression at bottom of stroke , affecting water to water vapor , then as susceptible to further influence. There is to be also polarized water vapor repelling, and increasing piston pressure.

Set up now has a different smaller Briggs 8.5 HP engine that has a starter and plastic ring changeable alternator. Just purchased cheap flywheel that has the LARGE magnets for the alternator for more current output. The use of Aluminum ring gear on steel flywheel allows for use of plastic small gear on starter. COMPLETE ELECTRICAL ISOLATION for the expensive China Inverter box. Spark Plug electrolysis + water vapor pressure .

Nicolas Keeton wrote:Is there more information on this? I keep seeing a lot of people claim their running engines on hydrogen, but usually anything video related is never documented or the old sites are never maintained.

I used to play around with creating hydrogen when I was younger, but stopped when I realized how dangerous it was when reading up on flashback arrestors.

The shop work in Georgia 2005-2019 was about not using a traditional water cell with plates for H gas. Piston pressure by combustion chamber electrolysis with improvements added. They used a found box of special made relay extras, that were for traffic lights controller. Used for the PARTS inside the vacuum chamber,- not relay action. The wiring hook up allowed for radiant energy to be used , not escaped into the air. There were several pages about Browns gas involved from the negative electrons absorbed by water vapor that helped create extra piston pressure. Timing has to be retarded to ATDC. They used an electromagnet for that called the S1R9A9M9 triple coils assembly. Impressed field over plug wire causes the spark to CONTINUE well after tdc. I'm presently doing a bench set up Briggs 1 cyl, to repeat the You tube videos of 2008. The guy converted his v8 El Camino for 18mpg water only in tank, - lowered power of course.  They had 400watt inverter box with DC to spark plugs through the L coils + diode inside the relay. PVC pipe , coupling + end caps can be used with inductor coils , 4:40 brass screws , nuts, and diode on wood slat to replicate the "Magic Relays" , as they called them. I used a 4" square Carlon gray box with cover and seal. Also brass fittings and vacuum gauge. Hand pumper is the one used to check brake fluid on auto brakes.  To use water, the engine selected to run a standby power generator has to be 3-5 times larger HP required to keep it working. The You tube videos show mower engine started , then battery removed, and the dual alternators on Briggs 18HP ran the main circuit. I believe 4 + 11 amps for alternator capability of 15 amps. This is only if they didn't upgrade the factory alternator + flywheel with larger magnets. (Just turn shaft for AC output power. More amps out if no volts regulator is used, as the voltage is higher. The car conversions had the dual batteries recharged. Secondary side of Inverter ground not to touch batt grnd for more than a few milliseconds. Separate wire from plug ground back to inverter DC neg. The lawn mower engine ran itself on just alternator output because of the spinning 12 magnets. EGR added with the impressed Nitrogen in exhaust smooths out the engine running. See the You tube 2 videos on the S1R9A9M9 water engine. HEAR what a water engine sounds like!