Dealing with Varroa

Hi everyone! I've been thrilled to learn about keeping bees in the past few months as I prep for having bees of my own. Currently, I'm an apprentice in the OSU Master Beekeeping Program. It's a big, fascinating world. I've been working to combine my "alternative" views with some of the modern practices of beekeeping.

I'm especially curious about mite control. Varroa mites are basically an unavoidable problem in bee colonies nowadays, and a nasty pest. Some of the methods I've been learning about for dealing with mites sound absolutely terrifying! Some of the people I've chatted with in the Program have discussed various chemicals, some of which require wearing full-blown respirators. I've chatted with some ladies in the Preservation Bee Council in Camas, WA who suggest keeping smaller hives so the bees have time to clean up mites. Of course, the big difference here is the members of the PBC aren't necessarily trying to harvest anything out of their hives like some more "conventional" beekeepers would. And in a world with an off-kilter ecosystem, are desperate, chemical-dependent measures acceptable as we try to heal it?

So, permies - I'd love to hear your perspective on handling Varroa destructor, especially if you've hit on any techniques that you feel align with a permaculture mindset.


Be well everybody. It's weird times right now. Being an apartment dweller I'm really jonesing to get some access to some land.

I've found some previous discussion here, which praises catching a swarm. It sounds like a good idea, but you also have no guarantee where the bees are coming from (what their toxic load or mite load might be). What do all of you think?

Max Menchaca wrote:I've found some previous discussion here, which praises catching a swarm. It sounds like a good idea, but you also have no guarantee where the bees are coming from (what their toxic load or mite load might be). What do all of you think?

As I probably mentioned in another thread, here in Germany you may not lure or catch a swarm that clearly has an owner (only if they don't show up).

But still, swarms are quite an attractive option for getting a new hive as the swarm leaves behind most of the parasites and other diseases. It is like an rejuvenation.

My swarm management was really bad this year (6 swarms out of 4 hives) but luckily I have been able to sell them all (minus one). I am member of the local beekeeping association where I also did the free beginner's course (theoretical and praxis classes), and they send out mails if somebody wants to sell / buy a swarm.

Max Menchaca wrote:I've found some previous discussion here, which praises catching a swarm. It sounds like a good idea, but you also have no guarantee where the bees are coming from (what their toxic load or mite load might be). What do all of you think?

swarms are helpful for varroa because they cause a break in the brood cycle. varroa mites need brood to reproduce. if there's no brood for a while, as is the case for a newly hived swarm, varroa reproduction is interrupted and the population drops. conveniently, this is the case for both the swarm and the colony that issued the swarm.

tel jetson wrote:

Max Menchaca wrote:I've found some previous discussion here, which praises catching a swarm. It sounds like a good idea, but you also have no guarantee where the bees are coming from (what their toxic load or mite load might be). What do all of you think?

swarms are helpful for varroa because they cause a break in the brood cycle. varroa mites need brood to reproduce. if there's no brood for a while, as is the case for a newly hived swarm, varroa reproduction is interrupted and the population drops. conveniently, this is the case for both the swarm and the colony that issued the swarm.

That is very true, and thanks for pointing it out! I wonder what that means for any phoretic mites that are hitching a ride with any bees on the swarm, though?

Hi Max,

I have found that the information here:  

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/    

and especially here:

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/extended-release-oxalic-acid-progress-report-4/

is extremely helpful in creating and applying a very effective organic treatment for varroa mites.

It calls for a a mixture of glycerine and oxalic acid (mine comes from Savogran "wood bleach", available at most hardware stores, and applied using blue shop towels (heavy paper towels, also from the hardware store), and it is research-proven to work, be safe, and from my own experience, pretty easy to apply.  I am a "hands-off" beekeeper, and this program (used for the first time last fall) suits me perfectly.  I've lost several hives over the years, almost certainly to mites, but this winter my hive not only survived, but prospered, to the point where I have 4 hives at this moment, instead of the one I went through winter with!  So, it does seem to work.  (Initial hive was split, and then swarmed anyway, twice.  Happily, the swarms ended up within 20 ft of hive, so I boxed them up, and now have 4 hives.)

I hope that helpful.


Mac

I'm going to be trying the Small Cell foundation method. Bees have been bred bigger than nature intended, and kept that way by commercial frame foundation making brood cells about 5.4mm. Small Cell is 4.9mm, and I've seen people post success with handmade foundation of 4.8.  The idea is that varroa has a harder time in the smaller brood cells than in the big ones. Part of why a lot of people put in a sacrifice frame of drone sized foundation to pull out and freeze after its capped, because the varroa still prefer the bigger drone brood. They are so destructive because they CAN use regular worker brood to multiply. But in theory, the smaller, more natural sized bees and cells cut down on the varroa populations.

I've seen arguments for and against small cell, but I figure its worth a shot.

Jessa Hunt wrote:I'm going to be trying the Small Cell foundation method. Bees have been bred bigger than nature intended, and kept that way by commercial frame foundation making brood cells about 5.4mm. Small Cell is 4.9mm, and I've seen people post success with handmade foundation of 4.8.  The idea is that varroa has a harder time in the smaller brood cells than in the big ones. Part of why a lot of people put in a sacrifice frame of drone sized foundation to pull out and freeze after its capped, because the varroa still prefer the bigger drone brood. They are so destructive because they CAN use regular worker brood to multiply. But in theory, the smaller, more natural sized bees and cells cut down on the varroa populations.

I've seen arguments for and against small cell, but I figure its worth a shot.

I love your idea on bees bred to be larger, and have so many new questions that spring to mind!

For one, Africanized bees are smaller than  commercial honeybees nowadays. They are also much more resilient to the mites.

I've been taught Varroa prefer drones because they are brood for longer, which gives the mites longer to breed. I've always wondered if the "preference" is manifesting as a mite going for the larger cell size, or triggering off of drone phermones.

Do the bees really go for the smaller cell size? That is really fascinating.

Jessa Hunt wrote:I've seen arguments for and against small cell, but I figure its worth a shot.

I like to let the bees choose their own cell size. if I'm totally honest, that's mostly because I'm cheap and lazy. that said, there are a lot of short- and long-term benefits to just trusting the bees to get it right.

Mac Harkaway wrote:
I have found that the information here:  

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/    

and especially here:

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/extended-release-oxalic-acid-progress-report-4/

Interesting, the first time I hear about such long-term treatment. I usually work with a formic acid dispenser (temperature and humidity dependent), but it seems there are people around here that are also using that method. When googling I found this instruction video with a recipe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmRTEjZJ9ow

He uses cardboard strips which are either completey taken apart or you can remove some rests in the end (they don't have that blue colour like shown in your link).
In the video there is a reference to a study of a University in Argentina in 2015, and there is a German thesis on the same subject from the same year (https://refubium.fu-berlin.de/handle/fub188/5556)

But at the end of the video there is a disclaimer that this treatment is not permitted in Europe, although the author considers it superior to the conventional dispenser.

I'm not yet a beekeeper (I still have hundreds of pages to read through in the book, "The Beekeeper's Bible" before I attempt anything), but I recall reading elsewhere that bees take a sort of "bath" in Mentha spp. (mint).  That the oils somehow help bees clean the mites off.

And my gut says that, like humans, diet probably affects the immunoresponse of our fuzzy insect friends, too, so I would think having a broad range of forage plant types would best help bees be healthy in general and fight off the viruses carried by Varroa.