Seed Company + Advice

Hello all
I am new here and looking for some assistance. I am currently looking for somewhere to purchase bulk pasture seeds. The animals I currently possess are cattle + sheep. Last year, I did a mix of orchard grass and 2 types of clover (Dutch White + Alsike [?]).

So my first question is: where should I buy bulk seed? Reputable? Non-GMO?

My next question is: would you add anything else to your pasture? I was thinking of KY BlueGrass or some form of "sweeter" grass for the animals?

Any advice helps + God bless you all!

Hello, and welcome!

First thing's first. I'm somewhat new here myself, but I suspect that my expertise might be what you are looking for. I'm a professional grazing specialist. I've got a few questions for you first though that will help me and others answer your questions. Where exactly are you? I'm going to guess you are east of the Mississippi and somewhere north of Tennessee/North Carolina based on Orchard grass, Dutch white and Alske. Probably further north than those 'southern' 2 states, and the fact that you mentioned KY bluegrass, which is interesting, but I'll get to that.

How many acres are we talking about and how many/what kind of animals are we talking about? 2nd question: have you taken a soil test and applied lime/fertilizer as needed according to what the results of the soil test are? (I'm guessing you have an understanding of the nitrogen contributed by legumes as you have already included 2 of them in your sed mix.)

You planted orchardgrass which is a great grass, but did you pick a variety developed for hay, grazing, or general purpose? In terms of winter grazing possibilities, You want to look at a tall fescue variety. Probably an endophyte alternative variety such as Max-Q, but there are others.

KY bluegrass? Really. I don't often see it nor hear of anyone speak of it, but it is a favorite of mine. The quality of it is excellent. The downfall is, it is almost solely developed for lawns. That means most varieties are short and slow growing. Exactly the opposite of what you want. Pre-WW2 Kentucky bluegrass was king. Nowdays it's been largely overgrazed and grazed out. There is, however, a couple of varieties that will meet your needs. One of those is Ginger Kentucky Bluegrass.

I look forward to your reply.

Mark Reynolds wrote:Hello, and welcome!

First thing's first. I'm somewhat new here myself, but I suspect that my expertise might be what you are looking for. I'm a professional grazing specialist. I've got a few questions for you first though that will help me and others answer your questions. Where exactly are you? I'm going to guess you are east of the Mississippi and somewhere north of Tennessee/North Carolina based on Orchard grass, Dutch white and Alske. Probably further north than those 'southern' 2 states, and the fact that you mentioned KY bluegrass, which is interesting, but I'll get to that.

How many acres are we talking about and how many/what kind of animals are we talking about? 2nd question: have you taken a soil test and applied lime/fertilizer as needed according to what the results of the soil test are? (I'm guessing you have an understanding of the nitrogen contributed by legumes as you have already included 2 of them in your sed mix.)

You planted orchardgrass which is a great grass, but did you pick a variety developed for hay, grazing, or general purpose? In terms of winter grazing possibilities, You want to look at a tall fescue variety. Probably an endophyte alternative variety such as Max-Q, but there are others.

KY bluegrass? Really. I don't often see it nor hear of anyone speak of it, but it is a favorite of mine. The quality of it is excellent. The downfall is, it is almost solely developed for lawns. That means most varieties are short and slow growing. Exactly the opposite of what you want. Pre-WW2 Kentucky bluegrass was king. Nowdays it's been largely overgrazed and grazed out. There is, however, a couple of varieties that will meet your needs. One of those is Ginger Kentucky Bluegrass.

I look forward to your reply.

Hey Mark! I appreciate your reply.
I am in Western Pennsylvania to be exact. My sheep + cattle graze on the same pasture, which is 7-8 acres, which I fence off portions so they can completely graze the area and move them to fresh grass (rotational grazing?). I am very small scale, God-willing will become a little bigger in the future, but my animals are as follows: 3 ewes and 1 ram. Also, I have 3 Piedmontese heifers, which will be AI'd with Galloway, and working to acquire a Jersey dairy cow. So, not a large population. I should have stated that the pasture they are in currently was a soybean plot. When I broadcast seeded, the the seeds quickly sprouted and flourished (considering maybe it was a soybean field, could be good soil I thought). I never did a test on the pasture currently being grazed because I figured the seeds took, so must be great, right??? LOL
Unfortunately, I have another 2 pastures that were conventional corn fields and *anything* (I mean, anything, even inoculated seeds) I throw does not catch the way the current pasture did. How do I do a soil test? Can I do it myself?
Also, re: orchard grass. I have no idea if it is for hay, grazing, or general purpose. All I know is, it bolted so quick this year. I purchased these seeds from Hancock Seed Company, but prices are astronomical this year, almost doubled from when I first purchased.
A lot of people say the same about KY BlueGrass. is great for sheep + cattle (horses too) and wanted to give it a try. Yet, I find the problem you spoke of; it's mainly used for lawns, which is crazy.
Let me know what you think.

I order mine from the local animal feed shop.  Much cheaper than anywhere else and i can even get custom mixes for different pasture conditions as well as organic, or other requirements.

Only thing is they specialize in seeds that aren't toxic to animals, so some wildflower mixes aren't possible there as the plants can kill sheep if they nibble on them.

Also, they usually come in 25kg bags, so...that might be a bit bulkier than most people need.

As for adding to the mix, depends on where you are and the specific soil.  I favour perennial grasses and clovers that don't mind sour soil.  Although I could probably add lime each winter, I hate repeating work.  Here they suggest seeding every 5 to 25 years depending on the soils abilities to handle that much livestock.

Get to know your local extension agent. They will be the biggest help on your soil test. To answer your question, yes, you can do the soil test yourself. Get a 5 gallon PLASTIC, not metal, bucket (or any plastic bucket/pail/container big enough. Staying within the pasture, collect a cup to 1.5 cups of soil randomly scattered across the pasture from the top 4 inches of soil. Remove the vegetative matter. Make sure you are collecting from what appears to be a representative point in the pasture. In other words, not in front of a gate, a bare patch, or a place where a 'different' plant is growing that isn't anywhere in the pasture. Collect at 8-12 different spots in your pasture. Do your pastures separate.  Mix your collection points thoroughly in the bucket and take a 1-2 cup mix of that in a PAPER bag to your CO-OP or extension. They will submit it for analysis.

I'm not sure how long out of each year you intend to graze. I'm not sure how far north or south you are, but you get that lake effect snow which will impact your grazing season (unless you are way south, and then you are close to me. (Marietta Ohio/Parkersburg WV).  As for your animal numbers, if you want to graze almost year round (depends where you are) You need to keep your animal numbers around 1,000 lbs of live weight for each 2.5 acres you have. Based on the numbers you gave, you are above that. That's not a crime, but you may have a hard time maintaining your pastures and will need quite a bit of hay.

I'm on another forum as well that you may find beneficial. I'm active there moreso than here, but both are great sources of information. You may check out "Cattle Today".

Welcome to the forum!

I second what R has said.  We buy our grass seeds at the local feed store as they know what grows best for our area.

I also agree with the perennial seed suggestion.

What perennial grasses are native to your area?  A mix of those might work well though ask at the feed/seed store as to their suggestions.

If you will be planting now an addition or winter rye and winter clover would be good.

If you are serious about the Kentucky bluegrass, pursue the variety "Ginger". This will make a world of difference.