• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • John F Dean
  • Nancy Reading
  • r ransom
  • Jay Angler
  • Timothy Norton
stewards:
  • paul wheaton
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Anne Miller
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
  • M Ljin
gardeners:
  • Jim Garlits
  • thomas rubino
  • William Bronson

Limecrete Over Straw and Timber Frame Fence

 
Posts: 1
Location: Mobile, AL, USA
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Any advice???

I am building a fence around the perimeter of my property in Mobile, AL, USA. The fence will stand 8 ft high, 4” thick and wrap approximately 300 ft around my property. The main component (or substrate) of the structure will be loose straw compacted into a 4” double wall made from wire and fiberglass mesh attached to timber posts. The structure will be plastered with a mixture of sand, clay and hydrated lime. My proposed method involves the following steps:

1. Set 10 ft long 4”x4” timber posts in the ground approximately 8 ft apart (further apart in places where I couldn't dig beyond tree roots or asphalt). This is the only step I've completed so far. The posts stand 8 ft above ground and are cemented 2 ft underground. I used a gas powered auger to dig the 2 ft holes and then set weather treated posts using regular concrete from the hardware store. There will be two openings in the structure for entrances—one will be a swing gate and the other, an electric sliding gate.

2. Create a double-walled frame by securing wire mesh to the front and back of the timber posts using a heavy duty staple gun and pulling it taut before stapling it to the next post. The timber posts will be plastered along with the meshed straw so the mesh will be stapled directly to the surface of the timber frame instead of jointed between the posts. The wire mesh I purchased is 20-Gauge Poultry Netting with 2 in. mesh from Home Depot https://www.homedepot.com/p/Fencer-Wire-4-ft-x-150-ft-20-Gauge-Poultry-Netting-with-2-in-Mesh-NB20-4X150M2/312274238 —I now realize that a heavier gauge and finer mesh would've likely been better. But I figure the wire doesn't need to be exceptionally strong since aside from a 1 ft gravel foundation, it will only contain straw, which is very lightweight and will never be load bearing. In order to effectively build up the substrate within the walls of the wire frame (pour the rock plinth evenly and compress the loose straw as airtight as possible) the double-wall must be built up in three sections along the height of the fence while simultaneously laying the plinth and each footing of straw substrate.
Section One: 1ft high, to hold the gravel plinth.
Section Two: 4ft high to hold the first footing of straw, situated directly on top of the rock plinth.
Section Three: 3ft higher to hold the final footing of straw.

3. Reinforce the wire mesh with alkali-resistant fiberglass mesh. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0DJJQ7TD3/ref=ox_sc_act_title_13?smid=A1ZG7RUO72QLE2&psc=1 Using a staple gun, secure fiberglass mesh to the timber posts, covering the wire mesh. Cut the fiberglass mesh the same size as the wire mesh and pull it taut between posts. This is to give the plaster a good grit to adhere to while holding the straw and rock uniformly in place for a smooth plastered finish. The alkali-resistance prevents the lime from eating through the fiberglass over time. All materials are breathable to allow the straw substrate to continuously release moisture. I could probably get away with using only the fiberglass mesh to create my double wall.

4. Construct a rock plinth to prevent the straw from touching the ground and coming into contact with moisture. Do this by building the first section of the double wall (from wire overlapped with fiberglass mesh) and filling it with gravel. My gravel comes from a local quarry: Vulcan Materials B-Base Gravel—$60/ton.
https://www.vulcanmaterials.com/construction-materials/products-and-services/construction-aggregates#COMMON_BASE_STONE_PRODUCTS

I'm not digging a trench to sink the plinth underground and moreover, the plinth will stand only 12” above ground rather than the recommended 18”. Since my substrate consists of only a 4” layer of straw, it should dry out quicker than the straw has time to rot in the event rainfall floods higher than 1 ft and moisture penetrates the plaster. If I were working with actual straw bales I would be more concerned about my fence deteriorating from rotting straw. Not to mention, I want to minimize labor intensiveness and costs by using less rock and more straw.

5. Construct the first footing of straw substrate. After building the second section of the double wall, fill it with compacted straw. Stuff straw, up to a foot or so at a time, in between the walls, wetting it down with a hose and compressing it with a tamper. For a tamper I plan to make one out of a piece of plywood attached to the bottom of an old broomstick. I am somewhat concerned about how airtight I can compress the straw without adding sandclay as a binder (which would make it a cob wall instead of Limecrete Over Straw).  I'm more worried though that by including sandclay in the straw substrate I would risk the structure failing to dry out in between rainfalls BEFORE I CAN EVEN FINISH AN ENTIRE PANEL—that's how much it rains here. I don't want this to take forever to be completed and I dread the thought of scaffolding anything other than quarters that would benefit from having a permanent overhanging roof. My straw is coming from local feed stores, whichever has the best price at the time.

6. Repeat the previous step, constructing the final footing of straw within the topmost section of double-walled wire and fiberglass mesh.

7. Secure a 4” strip of wire mesh to the top of the 4x4 posts, covering the rim of the entire fence line. Follow up with a 4” strip of fiberglass mesh, securing it directly over the wire mesh. Both mesh ought to be pulled taut in between stapling them to the timber posts.

8. Plaster the front, back and rim of the entire structure using the sandclay and hydrated lime. I'm using hydrated lime in every coat to prevent cracking and speed up the drying time. However, the firstmost coats will consist of mostly sandclay and the final coat will consist solely of hydrated lime. I will mix the dry materials in a 5 gallon bucket and then use a mixer bit on an electric drill to add water until reaching a batter like consistency. I'll spread it on with a toothed trowel, scoring the leather hard surface in between coatings. I'll wear gloves and a long sleeve shirt so the lime doesn't burn my skin. I suspect that the final finish will end up being a grayish white stone from the lime although the sandclay is red.

My sandclay comes from a local aggregate mine: Dirt Inc SANDCLAY—$10/ton with a 5 ton minimum. https://gulfdirt.com/dirt%2C-inc I'm not sure of the exact ratio of sand:clay it contains but much more sand than clay.

My Hydrated Lime comes from Lowe's. https://www.lowes.com/pd/QUIKRETE-50-lb-S-Hydrated-lime/3567274  I'm using hydrated lime instead of Natural Hydraulic Lime (NHL) 3.5 mainly because of the cost. Also, I read that hydrated lime cures harder, less permeable and is just as breathable and workable as NHL. Thus, it seems better suited for exterior rendering over straw in a rainy climate.

Any thoughts on...
The best way to create cut outs for plexiglass windows within the overall structure
The need for scaffolding
How to achieve the glossiest plaster surface—a particular shellac varnish?
What to expect in terms of noise cancellation when there is only 4” of straw within the wall
The most sandclay (: lime) I can use when building up subsequent base coats of plaster.

Thanks,
Chasity
00360b23a3b00a020e25d52831faa056.jpg
[Thumbnail for 00360b23a3b00a020e25d52831faa056.jpg]
Similar to what the straw substrate will look like inside the wire mesh double walls but keep in mind this is a generic photo found on Google and the straw is not depicted compressed.
 
This tiny ad is programmed to love you
It's like being on a deserted island - only with gardens and natural buildings in Montana
https://wheaton-labs.com/bootcamp
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic