"If you want to save the environment, build a city worth living in." - Wendell Berry
The Oak Ridge National Labs website has changed significantly, and the paper in the first link seems to no longer be available. Current tools (as of November 2020) can be found at https://web.ornl.gov/sci/buildings/tools/
"If you want to save the environment, build a city worth living in." - Wendell Berry
A pair a what shift?
"If you want to save the environment, build a city worth living in." - Wendell Berry
C.J. Murray wrote:Springtime,
Thank you for the links. It's fascinating how there are so many paths to be pursued to make sure you arrive at the solution you need.
You are right, of course, to point out that air-sealing is of massive import. Poor air-sealing can easily negate all the gains of TM. So, I'd like to specify that for the purposes of this discusson that the air-sealing properties of the dwelling are above acceptable.
Jami,
You profiled me accurately. hahahaha.
Having said that, I believe, in the interest of current progression in eco building, we can't wait for all the right answers before trying what we believe are some of the right answers. If we don't have an acceptable eco alternative today then let's progress using some of the answers rather than none or doing nothing.
Speaking as to myself, I can't even keep track of all I need to change to get it right but I can keep track of some of them. Once I've put some questions to rest then I can move on to others.
I believe Lolly brings up another good point which I should clarify. If winter lows aren't much below freezing and summer highs are humid F 80s and 90s TM insulation requirements should be somewhat different. I'm focusing my current efforts in an area where -20F to -30F are not uncommon winter lows while summertime highs are high F 80s to high 90s. Summertime lows are F 55-65.
For the moment I'm going to specify that the TM needing insulated is all adjacent to dirt/rock rather than air. In other words, it is underground or earthbermed. Since wet/damp soil creates it's own set of problems I'll also specify that I really like the thought of covering over a large area with plastic or pond liner and covering it with dirt in order to create a mass of dry dirt/rock below it. So let's assume the dirt is dry (whatever that means).
What eco friendly insulating alternatives are there for below the floor and adjacent to, above and below the TM external to the dwelling wall? Let's talk about even the crazy ideas. Jami has said he is not satified with the options thus far. What are those options?
Kent
"If you want to save the environment, build a city worth living in." - Wendell Berry
Joe Woodall, Rogue Ecoitect
Georgia Adobe Rammed Earth Homes (TM)
706-363-6453
http://georgiaadobe.com
Joe Woodall, Rogue Ecoitect
Georgia Adobe Rammed Earth Homes (TM)
706-363-6453
http://georgiaadobe.com
"If you want to save the environment, build a city worth living in." - Wendell Berry
Lolly K wrote:
C.J. Murray wrote:Springtime,
Thank you for the links. It's fascinating how there are so many paths to be pursued to make sure you arrive at the solution you need.
You are right, of course, to point out that air-sealing is of massive import. Poor air-sealing can easily negate all the gains of TM. So, I'd like to specify that for the purposes of this discusson that the air-sealing properties of the dwelling are above acceptable.
Jami,
You profiled me accurately. hahahaha.
Having said that, I believe, in the interest of current progression in eco building, we can't wait for all the right answers before trying what we believe are some of the right answers. If we don't have an acceptable eco alternative today then let's progress using some of the answers rather than none or doing nothing.
Speaking as to myself, I can't even keep track of all I need to change to get it right but I can keep track of some of them. Once I've put some questions to rest then I can move on to others.
I believe Lolly brings up another good point which I should clarify. If winter lows aren't much below freezing and summer highs are humid F 80s and 90s TM insulation requirements should be somewhat different. I'm focusing my current efforts in an area where -20F to -30F are not uncommon winter lows while summertime highs are high F 80s to high 90s. Summertime lows are F 55-65.
For the moment I'm going to specify that the TM needing insulated is all adjacent to dirt/rock rather than air. In other words, it is underground or earthbermed. Since wet/damp soil creates it's own set of problems I'll also specify that I really like the thought of covering over a large area with plastic or pond liner and covering it with dirt in order to create a mass of dry dirt/rock below it. So let's assume the dirt is dry (whatever that means).
What eco friendly insulating alternatives are there for below the floor and adjacent to, above and below the TM external to the dwelling wall? Let's talk about even the crazy ideas. Jami has said he is not satified with the options thus far. What are those options?
CJ, it sounds like you and I might have similar situations in mind.I'm planning on doing something that will allow me to use a hillside to protect three sides of the house we will build. One of the alternatives we have discussed is earth bag construction using soil cut from the hillside as filler, but all the reading I have done so far indicates that we will still need insulation of some sort between the exterior wall/roof and the soil itself.
I'm hoping to find a supply of expanded foam sheets that are previously used and apply them on the outside of the walls, then wrapping the whole thing in vapor barrier fabric of some sort. The best option would be if I could acquire that material second hand as well. Family members are in an area with lots of small manufacturers who have plenty of packing material to get rid of, so "free" would be good on some of this. Second hand would ease my conscience so what as well, because the material would have had time to do some off-gassing before being used in a dwelling.
This link might come in handy for someone. http://www.climate-zone.com/index.htm I was able to get specific data for two large communities near my location to give me specifics on the sort of weather we need to plan for.
The Arizona Solar Center website has changed and the original paper is not available. A likely updated version is at https://www.azsolarcenter.org/architecture/passive-solar-heating-cooling-manual
C.J. Murray wrote:Len,
I believe that both you and Springtime are correct. You want more air. Springtime wants control of that air instead of it being random leaks which cannot be controlled. Yes, there are standards of some sort for how tight a house must be but in actual performance it all gets…uh…thrown out the window…so to speak…when you open a window. Being able to control the amount of air incoming and when, is the way to go.
And I agree with you wholeheartedly about comfort. I want it and I want to be in control of it. If I want to sleep in a 40ºF bedroom in the winter then I’ll need control to be able to accomplish that.
It appears to me that it is very easy with south facing windows and a sunny day to bring way more heat into the home than is comfortable. I want the way to capture that as best possible. I recognize that with consecutive sunny days the house, conceivably, could be storing too much heat and become uncomfortable. I want the ability in some manner to convey that heat deeper into the TM so a larger mass of TM is at a lower temperature rather than a smaller amount being at a higher temp. I have not even begun to delve into how to accomplish that passively. I’m not opposed to using a forced air system if the electricity powering it is provided by PV. Much rather figure it out passively so it can’t break down.
Springtime,
I have not delved into the ground sourced heat pumps just yet. You mention they are 600% efficient. I’m assuming that means that for 100% of the electricity used to power the heat pump system there is a 600% return of heat. Is this correct? If it is then I suggest it also need to be factored in that if the power plant efficiency at generating the power is 33% then the 100% electricity is actually 300% BTUs expended and thus it drops the heat pump efficiency to 300%. Still, I am very willing to admit that is impressive. Of course, for all I know, it’s a gas fired power plant and the efficiency is higher.
With my fairly limited knowledge I tend to agree with you. It will be millions of small renewable plants all over the grid which will ultimately get us to clean energy. And if it’s not, if it’s big electricity supplying it all still, we are indeed less than looking out for our own individual interests.
I have been thinking on the feasibility of using thermal mass to store the heat generated by excess PV capacity and excess solar hot water capacity. All in all, if one has a decently sunny climate in the winter it appears to be very attainable to heat the home off grid and live in a warm home. One of the case studies on the Thousand Home Challenge website said the guy had lowered his temp to like 50ºF and I was thinking that was not what I wanted to have to do.
Terry,
Is the regrind mixed into the cement or ?
The regrind eps foam is re heated into more sheets of eps varrying density foam. It is cheap, but I would not place it under a slab due to the varrying densitys. I use it for protecting my ICF foam foundations from rock while backfilling the foundation.
This site has some detailed info I have been reading: http://www.azsolarcenter.org/tech-science/solar-architecture/passive-solar-design-manual/passive-solar-design-manual-heating.html
"If you want to save the environment, build a city worth living in." - Wendell Berry
"If you want to save the environment, build a city worth living in." - Wendell Berry
"If you want to save the environment, build a city worth living in." - Wendell Berry
"If you want to save the environment, build a city worth living in." - Wendell Berry
I think they should change the spelling to Sandy Eggo. This tiny ad agrees with me.
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