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Disbudding/dehorning

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How long do kids horns need to be to band them rather than using a disbudding iron? Also if I wanted to remove some scurs how long would the scurs need to be?
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I don't think scurs need to be removed. A horn can grow into the skull if it is deformed in some way, but a scur would not get through. I think a goat would rub it off if it was annoying them, and the one big nanny here that is not polled, usually loses her scurs while head butting
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