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make me a rocket fire /gasifier /that can. . heat mass / water / cook on / make light / make electri  RSS feed

 
rob zos
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make me a rocket fire /gasifier /that can... heat mass / water / cook on / make electric from gas steam / make light from gas /electric /steam / flame / run mechery from gas/ electric /steam / thermo controled draft propeld from gas /electric / steam / solar / store gas in compresion / no smoke please / run hydraulic pump for log spliter from gas /electric /steam ect / must have big grav fed fuel suppley to last a long time......

i know its not a lot to ask ......
 
John Master
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Location: Wisconsin
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I think you are being too narrow in your scope, maybe if you give us a broad idea of all the things you need this furnace contraption to do we can help j/k

I am working on a gravity fed wood chip burning rmh hydronic boiler that (if it even works) could eventually be retrofitted with a stirling engine generator to produce electricity (also not an easy task as i've come to find).

You would need a gasifier for some of the things you want, an RMH for the others and some are just not going to be worthwhile to pursue.

 
Dave Turpin
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Location: Groton, CT
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You want something like this:

http://biolitestove.com/homestove/overview/

It does everything except for heat mass. The electricity produced is enough for a few led lights. It would need to be scaled up substantially to power a hydraulic pump...
 
John Ram
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Location: Gaia, Portugal
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Actually that is simple. Biodigestor + gennie + rmh ... all run on gas...
 
Marcos Buenijo
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rob zos wrote:make me a rocket fire /gasifier /that can... heat mass / water / cook on / make electric from gas steam / make light from gas /electric /steam / flame / run mechery from gas/ electric /steam / thermo controled draft propeld from gas /electric / steam / solar / store gas in compresion / no smoke please / run hydraulic pump for log spliter from gas /electric /steam ect / must have big grav fed fuel suppley to last a long time......

i know its not a lot to ask ......


Not a lot to ask? (I realize you were joking). Seriously, what a nightmare. Something can certainly be devised, but it won't be turn key by any means. First, I think you're going to have lose the thermal mass or limit its size. The system you want here can be practical only with a constant low output that might be varied within limits. I've considered a basic approach that might be practical:

A furnace that operates at a low and controlled rate while simultaneously generating charcoal. Such a system combusts at a controlled rate the pyrolysis gases given off of heated wood (which is what happens when wood is charred). The heat could generate steam for heating applications. The benefit of a steam heating system is that it can have no moving parts where steam circulated through natural convection (steam rises through an insulated line into the home, then distributes through the systems with condensate finally draining by gravity into the steam generator to start the cycle anew). However, a forced air heating system could also be devised.

Personally, I think there is potential in developing this basic approach. You get a constant source of heat while generating charcoal as engine fuel. Many may not be aware that charcoal makes an excellent fuel for small engines, so here are a couple videos for introduction:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gmg_Uuz5Ps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbI6r7hPmHA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL79ci4TH7k

I've considered systems that use either wood chips or small wood splits. What you use for the charcoal is up to you, but it can be used to run any gas engine and even Diesel engines can use it in dual-fuel mode (kinda tricky here though). You could power wood splitters, tractors, or even a car or motorcycle. Fueling a small genset for battery charging is reasonable, but you would go through the fuel quickly in that set up if used for anything other than back up power for supplementing solar/wind/hydro. However, it is possible to supplement a charcoal gasifier with particulate biomass to extend the run times as Mr. Gilmore shows here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUf8P6lw-yw&list=UUEZBXcpRZm5MSWqThxS5_cg&index=2 .

NOTE: You are likely aware of wood gasification for fueling internal combustion engines. Wood can be a good fuel for engines, but it does very poorly at low power levels. Using charcoal makes fueling small engines much simpler.

NOTE: On cooking, I considered a configuration where a small rocket-style system using a small drum contains a steam generator tubing coil to cool the combustion gases and drive flow rather than using the outside of the barrel for cooling these gases. In this case the outside of the barrel is highly insulated. The top might be insulated with a removable cap that would provide a cooking surface. So, you get a constant burn at a low rate to make steam for heating applications, but you can access the high temperature on the top of the drum for cooking whenever you like.

NOTE: Making charcoal with a rocket-style heater might be done by processing the fuel to a regular size (such as short splits of a more or less constant diameter) and stacking the fuel onto a grate with large gaps that allows large pieces of charred wood to fall through into a collection chamber during operation. In this manner charcoal can be harvested for use in running small engines.
 
Marcos Buenijo
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Addendum to previous post: It is also possible to use the same steam generator used for heating applications to generate high pressure steam for a small steam engine. In that case there would be less incentive to harvest charcoal. However, I don't recommend this due to the dangers involved with high pressure and superheated steam, and the general lack of availability of the hardware involved. Since gas engines are ubiquitous, then it makes sense to stick with gasification for fueling small internal combution engines vs. the steam engine. It's also possible in principle to use the hot top of the drum to power a Stirling engine that could make a small amount of electricity and possibly power a fan for a forced air heating system. Unfortunately, I have yet to see a useful Stirling engine that could be used for this purpose. I mentioned it only because people seem to love these things, but I say forget the Stirling. You can power a gas engine today at 15-20% thermal efficiency on charcoal or wood. You can go fractional hp up to hundreds of hp on charcoal, and 3-5 hp up to hundreds of hp on wood. Until proper and cost effective external combustion systems become available, I say stick to internal combustion.
 
rob zos
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Marcos Buenijo wrote:Addendum to previous post: It is also possible to use the same steam generator used for heating applications to generate high pressure steam for a small steam engine. In that case there would be less incentive to harvest charcoal. However, I don't recommend this due to the dangers involved with high pressure and superheated steam, and the general lack of availability of the hardware involved. Since gas engines are ubiquitous, then it makes sense to stick with gasification for fueling small internal combution engines vs. the steam engine. It's also possible in principle to use the hot top of the drum to power a Stirling engine that could make a small amount of electricity and possibly power a fan for a forced air heating system. Unfortunately, I have yet to see a useful Stirling engine that could be used for this purpose. I mentioned it only because people seem to love these things, but I say forget the Stirling. You can power a gas engine today at 15-20% thermal efficiency on charcoal or wood. You can go fractional hp up to hundreds of hp on charcoal, and 3-5 hp up to hundreds of hp on wood. Until proper and cost effective external combustion systems become available, I say stick to internal combustion.

hi thanks for input , was thinking of more of a gasifier like this to power things
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F258s13UxfY&feature=related
 
Marcos Buenijo
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rob zos wrote: hi thanks for input , was thinking of more of a gasifier like this to power things
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F258s13UxfY&feature=related


Rob, after you do the research you will learn that running a small engine on a wood gasifier like the one you linked will require engine disassembly probably every 10 hours of operation, possibly even less. wood gas engine systems have all kinds of catch 22's associated with them, and things get increasingly difficult the smaller the system gets. If you're serious about looking into this, then ask serious questions. Also, please use complete sentences if/when you inquire. I'm not being cheeky, I honestly have trouble deciphering your posts.
 
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